waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Griefhard]

6 hours ago, LorenLuke said:

 

 

5 hours ago, NineLine said:

I have not heard anything official yet, so nothing new on our end at the moment.

Well... Even if it's not an official statement from ED, it's an official statement from RAZBAM via X. So I guess at least on RAZBAM side, there's not much interest in going on with DCS.

[cfrag]

1 hour ago, Griefhard said:

it's an official statement from RAZBAM via X.

Although an "official statement" in a sense that this is a statement uttered from one of the principals, and it was done in a "public forum", it does not represent what I would accept as an "official announcement" for this matter. That would be either a common statement from both parties, or a statement from a common arbiter (e.g. judge) of both parties. Anything else has the bad aftertaste of someone trying to sway the court of public opinion and being wholly self-serving (especially if a communique is phrased as badly and amateurishly (intentionally?) inflammatory as the one in question). I recommend that we disregard anything unilateral and wait for a "real" communication that can be taken serious. 

Edited Friday at 07:01 AM by cfrag

[Dragon1-1]

It's from the RAZBAM CEO, so if he says he's given up on resolving the matter, I'm afraid we can expect very little from anyone else. If he won't play ball, then I just don't see how anyone else can do anything about it.

What I'd like to know is what ED is planning to do with it going forward. I would actually prefer if the Mudhen was done by Heatblur, full as their plate is, since it's a multicrew aircraft and despite the fact the pilot can do everything the WSO can, the backseater is nonetheless a very important part of operating it. Too bad that the Harrier is probably too niche and weird for anyone else to make it, but hey, maybe the MiG-19 could go to the Red Star people, their -17 is shaping up nicely. 

Edited Friday at 07:14 AM by Dragon1-1

[Griefhard]

Just for speculations...

After the F15C is done, ED could take on the F15E. Maybe they got some part in their initial contract, that they can use whatever they can salvage from the already done parts on RAZBAMS model, while already having/developing a bunch of stuff from the F15C.

Also they have experience with multicrew airframes (AH64, MI24). 

So maybe the Mudhen will come after all.

 

@cfrag An "official" statement is probably something coming from both parts as one statement. But I see it like Dragon1-1: If the CEO of a company tells on official/public channels that something is over, then I don't see how that's gonna change...

[cfrag]

2 minutes ago, Griefhard said:

If the CEO of a company tells on official/public channels that something is over, then I don't see how that's gonna change

... unless it's a (IMHO rather lame) attempt at influencing the proceedings. Looking at the US's current administration it seems a very common (if clumsy and ineffective) attempt at bargaining. Anyone can change their mind, and 'never' can turn 'now' in a heartbeat. I've seen this happen in my own negotiations often enough. It's annoying, and it can tarnish the reputation of the people involved, but it hasn't stopped people from trying this approach. 

[BIGNEWY]

Hi folks, 

we have no new information to share. Once the dispute is resolved we will know more, until then we have to continue to wait. 

thank you 

[AndyJWest]

1 hour ago, cfrag said:

... unless it's a (IMHO rather lame) attempt at influencing the proceedings. Looking at the US's current administration it seems a very common (if clumsy and ineffective) attempt at bargaining. Anyone can change their mind, and 'never' can turn 'now' in a heartbeat. I've seen this happen in my own negotiations often enough. It's annoying, and it can tarnish the reputation of the people involved, but it hasn't stopped people from trying this approach. 

And it isn't new. RazBam have been making similar posts on and off from the start of this mess.

[alejandr0]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi folks, 

we have no new information to share. Once the dispute is resolved we will know more, until then we have to continue to wait. 

thank you 

Please ask the management what their plan is if this whole thing doesn't resolve successfully after Razbam leaves. Will all these modules share the same fate as Hawk?
This dispute has been going on for a while now, and with each passing day, I have the feeling it won't get any better.
So, Mr. BigNewy and Mr. Nineline, please ask...

[Slippa]

Signing off with “it takes two to tango” sounds like he still wants to dance.

Bust out the Maracas, let’s see some flamenco 

[Vakarian]

On a risk of sounding very salty, yeah, takes two to tango but only one to infringe on the IP...

[cfrag]

To quote George Carlin (to who's wisdom I still regularly bow) who remarked in 1998 that

Quote

"It takes two to tango. Sounds good, but simple reasoning will reveal that it only takes one to tango. It takes two to tango together, maybe, but one person is certainly capable of tangoing on his own."

And yes, it definitely only takes one to make an idiot out of oneself. I've proven that many times over.

[MAXsenna]

58 minutes ago, Vakarian said:

On a risk of sounding very salty, yeah, takes two to tango but only one to infringe on the IP...

 

[ebabil]

Can we refund steam purchase that we transferred to the standalone version? 
if not, upcoming C model should be given for free to those who can not refund for  to compensate the damage 

[Griefhard]

I found it a great offer from ED to have made it possible to refund after all. It was long known and if one missed it or didn't want to, then I bet this is covered in some "Early Access" footprint. To then demand a different model as compensation is somewhat ... too much in my opinion.

I refunded and it's no big loss for me. I have too many modules as it is anyways.

Edited Friday at 11:39 AM by Griefhard

[draconus]

15 minutes ago, ebabil said:

to compensate the damage 

What damage?

[Mike Force Team]

While the outcome, if it is true, is not what we hoped for, we know where we stand and can move forward. 

I find it odd, even strange, that RZ and ED could not solve their differences. Perhaps egos and pride might have been factors. 

[Ignition]

29 minutes ago, Mike Force Team said:

While the outcome, if it is true, is not what we hoped for, we know where we stand and can move forward. 

I find it odd, even strange, that RZ and ED could not solve their differences. Perhaps egos and pride might have been factors. 

It's not about ego or pride, it's money and until the cost of doing this is less than the money they want they will continue doing it. Until then we are put aside since we're not important enough while the money expected surpasses the losses.

 

The last DCS 2025 and beyond was lamentable. DCS has only a few modern aircraft and with this situation they've lost a big portion of them, ah yes, but the F-35 which for years ED said it was impossible to do now they are going to do it with all the videos of youtube, it's going to be a very good simulation.

[Czar66]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

What damage?

Almost 2 years of no development on the module which doesn't have the expected quality anyone would want after the period.

 

The best outcome, from the RB CEO statement, would be ED purchasing every module RB has done and incorporating into theirs and moving on from there.

[Ignition]

2 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

Almost 2 years of no development on the module which doesn't have the expected quality anyone would want after the period.

 

The best outcome, from the RB CEO statement, would be ED purchasing every module RB has done and incorporating into theirs and moving on from there.

Why would ED purchase their modules? Just asking, since it's ED which is demanding money from Razbam.

[Czar66]

5 minutes ago, Ignition said:

Why would ED purchase their modules? Just asking, since it's ED which is demanding money from Razbam.

Where it says ED is demanding money from RB?

[BIGNEWY]

Folks we have been pretty lenient in these threads so you can discuss the situation, but please dont take it to far or we will have to moderate here. 

@Ignition please just stop, we understand its difficult not having the full picture but it isnt something we can discuss in public.  

[Cab]

16 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

Almost 2 years of no development on the module which doesn't have the expected quality anyone would want after the period.

 

The best outcome, from the RB CEO statement, would be ED purchasing every module RB has done and incorporating into theirs and moving on from there.

That’s the risk of buying early access. People who don’t want to accept that risk can just wait until modules are complete. FWIW I buy during early access all the time. 

[draconus]

40 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

Almost 2 years of no development on the module which doesn't have the expected quality anyone would want after the period.

No improvement is not damage.

Edited Friday at 02:14 PM by draconus

[Czar66]

11 minutes ago, Cab said:

That’s the risk of buying early access. People who don’t want to accept that risk can just wait until modules are complete. FWIW I buy during early access all the time. 

All the modules that are big are in early access. It is a bit pointless to 'wait for completion' as finished modules have their quirks as well (Huey - I own it too).

The risk of what actually happened in this situation was not on the cards of no one. The point making that: "you bought early access and you asked for it" is not valid at all.

I usually buy after 2 or 3 years of launch, unless is something extraordinary. The F-15E was my first pre purchase. The F-4E followed after as a day 1 purchase because I was having more than my moneys worth out of the F-14 from HB.

Bought Viper in 2023, Apache 2025, F-14 2023...so on.
The Mirage was an almost regret getting but Razbam did an amazing overhaul job later on and that alone contributed for my F-15E purchase.

Hornet still in EA but it was awesome since the beginning in 2018 when I got it. No TPODs or fancy weapons at the time.

I haven't regret a cent spent on DCS for how I spent it.
I don't dislike the Early Access system either. If it makes things possible, so be it.

2 minutes ago, draconus said:

No improvement is not damage.

If it is not damage. Why are people refunding the F-15E?
.....it is keeping a product on a lower level that what customers expected it to be.

If people knew what would be coming shortly after the F-15E release, majority wouldn't have bought it.

[draconus]

26 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

Why are people refunding the F-15E

No idea, maybe they wanted only the one with Sniper, HMD, 9X and JSOW?