Is it me, or are the enemies in BS a 'tad' on the rough side?

[advent_m]

I got blown away from the sky quite a few times by tanks. Now, I know modern tanks have a helo-shoot system, but an ancient T-55? Plus, I got blown a few times by AT-6's shoot from the ground.

On top of it all, if the map I'm playing has an enemy Mi-24, I know that he'll shoot me down with his cannon if he gets close.

 

Now, that seems a bit aggressive to me, and it takes out much of my ability to enjoy flying this sim (especially the Hinds, the tanks only shoot me if I get stupidly close to them).

 

Your thoughts?

[GGTharos]

Welcome to the battlefield - where if the enemy can see you, he will shoot at you. Yes, including the T-55.

[159th_Viper]

I got blown away from the sky quite a few times by tanks. Now, I know modern tanks have a helo-shoot system, but an ancient T-55? Plus, I got blown a few times by AT-6's shoot from the ground.

On top of it all, if the map I'm playing has an enemy Mi-24, I know that he'll shoot me down with his cannon if he gets close.

 

Now, that seems a bit aggressive to me, and it takes out much of my ability to enjoy flying this sim (especially the Hinds, the tanks only shoot me if I get stupidly close to them).

 

Your thoughts?

 

Why are you so close to the Enemy? If you get tagged by a Main-Gun/Hind, then you've only got yourself to blame ;)

 

And I bet you're more than happy to raise the Metal-Air Index and Blow a M1 Sky-High with a coupla Vikhrs and Annihilate a GAZ Convoy with S-13's...not to mention bury'ing Stinger-men under a Blanket of 30mm HE Goodness......is'nt that a tad aggresive too........:D

 

 

Practice My Friend.......with Patience you'll be dealing out the Punishment instead of receiving it :)

[PoleCat]

You need to look closely at where you are going and stay out of range of the enemies weapons. Sounds like you are flying right into it to it. Tanks should be no problem as long as you do not fly right into them. Find cover and stop and pop (up) often to recon the area first. As far as the Hinds are concerned you will have to ask others for specific techniques. I am not so good with A2A in the Shark. Again try to see them before they see you and you should be able to handle it ok.

 

Remember Stand off and use your weapons at optimum range. That will keep you out of reach of most small arms fire easily. Take the threats down in layers moving in to cleanup with gunz only when safe.

 

Out

[EtherealN]

Regarding the T-55's, they'll have difficulty shooting you if you are moving. But if you are close enough and either hovering or moving pretty slow, there really isn't all that much to make it more difficult to shoot you than an enemy tank.

 

What I've found with tanks - all tanks - is that as long as I keep moving fast they aren't that much of a threat. But I still beat myself over (even if I survive) if I end up within tank range because even if it isn't all that likely that they'll manage to hit me when I'm doing 200km/h, all they really need is a single hit and I'll be completely gone. Never, ever, get that close. :P

 

As for Mi-24 and enemy helicopters, yeah, they'll kill you if they are operating in the same area and they perceive you as a threat. And most attack helicopters will have an easier time killing you than you them because they have a more maneuverable turret. But on the other hand, you have a very stable 30mm high-explosive-spewing piece of murder on your side, so in a straight-up gun battle of helicopter vs helicopter, you have a first-shot advantage. So just like the tanks, what you need to do is to stay vigilant and make sure you are aware of them before they are aware of you.

 

That's not easy, but it's the way it goes. I personally have never perceived helicopters to be a serious threat to me, but that's not because they aren't lethal - oh my gods I really don't want to try dogfighting an Apache... But I am very cautious when deploying to an ongoing battle, which sometimes causes me to not complete the mission in time, but I'd much rather be able to get home alive than have slightly better odds at finishing the mission but also having the big risk of losing situational awareness and getting jumped by hostile choppers (or - shiver - jets).

 

So my advice to you - be more careful. If a mission seems to require that you take a huge risk on ingress, do that ingress only with the knowledge that you are taking a huge risk. Personally I like to play the game as if it really was me inside that chopper and the ongoing battle was real, so I am pretty risk-averse and it has served me well in keeping me alive against enemy air and armor threats.

[spyda]

welcome to BS were the AI fights back

[LastRifleRound]

Gunships are a serious threat on the battlefield for amor. Ask any mechanized soldier and he'll tell you he has nightmares about coming under gunship attack.

 

If you see gunships, and there is no enemy armor in the zone, SOP is to shoot gunships with the main gun when out of .50 cal range. The new line of ammunition being developed in Europe and America (I'm sure Russkies have one too, just don't know for sure) such as MPAT are specifically designed to knock gunships out of the sky, but that 120mm MPAT won't kill you any less dead than the 105mm from a T-55, and the T-55 crew knows it.

[muamshai]

Don't fly fast to break speed record. You'll always end up in bee hive :D

[topol-m]

Uhhhm guys, isn`t the ka-50 having a good armor? I mean the hind has 12.7mm machine gun that shouldn`t penetrate it unless firing at the same place for too long...And the most vital places are protected against 23mm shots. While in game it looks like the black shark is breaking too easily.

[GGTharos]

The Ka-50 is well protected but you should not assume it can bounce rounds off. It's just well protected and can soak up damage. It isn't an actual tank though.

[EtherealN]

Yeah, never take a number on a factsheet about the armor to mean that you can receive in perpetuum anything below that - it just means that you have some margins that will help you get out of dodge.

 

And besides, remember that the Skhval doesn't have that armor, and if you lose that thing it will suddenly become a lot more difficult to fight back.

[159th_Viper]

And get a Stinger/Hitherto unknown Death-Dart exploding off your Beak and see what happens......:music_whistling:

 

Blew my Windscreen clean out, killed 'Virtual Me', evident from the copious amounts of Blood plastered on the remainder of the cockpit and left the Helo intact to Fly off into the Sunset, it being trimmed for hands-free immediately prior to my unfortunate and untimely demise.......:huh:

 

It's All Good!

[EtherealN]

Hahah, awesome death. :D

 

I caused my kid brother to cease being interested in flight sims a couple years back through (by sheer luck) getting perfect deflection shots with my hurricane (12-gun version) on his well armored plane's cockpit (can't recall which type he flew) as he made an immelman to try to get me off his six. Pilot dead, plane in perfect working order.

 

Then I managed it again, in the same day. And he has not touched a simulator since... Ooops. >.<

 

But point being, he could have as much armor plating as he wanted around that cockpit, and as strong a structure in the airframe as he wanted. And even though my guns were only measly regular machineguns shooting rifle size bullets that would ordinarily have huge issues taking down other planes quickly, when there's some 240 bullets entering the cockpit from above it really doesn't matter.:P

[topol-m]

And get a Stinger/Hitherto unknown Death-Dart exploding off your Beak and see what happens......:music_whistling:

 

Blew my Windscreen clean out, killed 'Virtual Me', evident from the copious amounts of Blood plastered on the remainder of the cockpit and left the Helo intact to Fly off into the Sunset, it being trimmed for hands-free immediately prior to my unfortunate and untimely demise.......:huh:

 

It's All Good!

 

 

No doubt the stinger will damage it a lot, but in certain occasions (with some luck) it should be able to fly even when hit by a small missile (igla, stinger...), or at least perform an emergency landing. The main systems are double/triple protected, big distance between engines, ability to fly with one engine if the other one is taken out, etc. Ka-50 is designed to sustain damage. It`s not a tank of course but my concerns are that in game it`s TOO easy to destroy it, a short volley of 12.7 should not desable most of my systems, or blow me up like some cessna :huh:

[EtherealN]

Well, but that's the thing topol-m. I have flown home (albeit damaged) after missile and cannon strikes. But that doesn't mean one should be cocky about those threats. To you it almost sounds like "12,7mm is small, ignore". The point isn't that the 12,7 is instant death (it isn't), the point is that it is capable of killing you.

 

Having the armoring of the Ka-50 is good and will often save your ass against many threats, but to rely on it to do so just because some numbers in a fact sheet say it has x resistance against y calibre is suicidal. And the fact that the Mi-24 has a very maneuverable turret means that it has a serious edge in a close in fight simply because it has a much wider engagement envelope. (Whereas your 30mm in the Ka-50 can engage from greater distances and has an easier time killing the Mi-24.)

 

So even with the armor, there simply is no reason to allow a threat to come close enough to shoot at you unless it is really really necessary for fulfilling a very important mission. The armor increases your odds of survival when you do end up where you shouldn't be, it does not mean that you really increase the places where you operate.

 

IMO, that is, I have not studied what the actual deployment tactics used by russian army aviation is, but I regard the armor basically as something that can save me when I mess up my planning.

[topol-m]

Totally agree with you but again i`m asking: isn`t the in game survivability lowered compared to the real on?

[EtherealN]

Would have to ask a real Ka-50 pilot about that.

 

My impression is that it seems pretty realistic though, considering the amount of times I have been able to limp home with battle damage. (I even managed a non-explosive "landing" with all hydraulics out. :D The bird wouldn't fly again though, I'll tell you that...)

 

I really doubt you should in any way "expect" to fly home after a direct hit by a MANPAD, even with the kind of armor the Ka-50 has. However, most "hits" I've had on me haven't been direct, but rather proximity fuse hits, and "most" of those (I never actually counted them so I'm going totally on my general impression) do allow me to limp home or perform a sucessful emergency landing.

 

EDIT: T-55 shells though... Different story. :D Though I did once survive what I believe was a tank shell (I forgot to doublecheck in the debrief) - it just blew off the rear half of the chopper and forced me to land quickly.

Edited May 1, 2009 by EtherealN

[topol-m]

EDIT: T-55 shells though... Different story. :D Though I did once survive what I believe was a tank shell (I forgot to doublecheck in the debrief) - it just blew off the rear half of the chopper and forced me to land quickly.

 

LoL what a nice experience :megalol: Scary...

[EtherealN]

I was pretty amazed after the landing (which was rather rough) when I switched to outside view to see what the hell had happened, I'll tell you that. :P

 

I didn't mind losing that mission terribly, since it had at least allowed me to survive what usually spells instant death.

 

For those in the know though, do the AI tanks automatically use high-explosive shells against air targets, or is there modelling where they would use something else due to it already being loaded?