how to land the BS!! HELP!

[Bee_Sting]

why does the BS roll over when landing? i'm doing all the right things and just before touch down it rolls over and crashes.should i lock the wheels before landing or turn off the hover? PLEASE HELP!!

[DMarkwick]

Touch down on tarmac. Preferably a runway :)

 

You can land on buildings though in a pinch.

[mjolner]

For anyone to truly assess why you are having issues they would need more info or even preferably a track file of your landing procedures.

 

1. Follow the vertical landing with rotor-in ground effect tutorial to the letter.

 

2. Verify your TRIM setting prior to landing ( RCNTRL+ENTER for axis display tool ). Trim at landing/hover config should be close to neutral.

 

3. Immediately Canel trim once wheels on deck.

 

4. An easy procedure as demonstrated in the Basic Flight Producer's note, is to establish a stable auto hover then engage decent mode or slowly ease down coollective, easy as pie.

 

5. I personally find that the Ka-50 is really easy to fly once established in any given regime, its the transition phase where things can get crazy. Following the procedures in the manual and lots of practice is the only solution.

 

Hope this helps

Edited May 6, 2009 by mjolner

[GGTharos]

Do not use autohover to land. That is not its intended purpose and it will happily get you killed if you don't understand its lilmitation (like the fact that it turns off all stabilization channels if you go under 4 meters ;) )

 

why does the BS roll over when landing? i'm doing all the right things and just before touch down it rolls over and crashes.should i lock the wheels before landing or turn off the hover? PLEASE HELP!!

[mjolner]

Do not use autohover to land. That is not its intended purpose and it will happily get you killed if you don't understand its lilmitation (like the fact that it turns off all stabilization channels if you go under 4 meters ;) )

 

 

Oops sorry Bee thats an important point, just remember to disengage auto hover before you get to low. For myself, there is no way in hell I am gonna land on a FARP without using auto-hover to help assist in positioning.

 

To others with more skill, good on ya!

[slowhand]

hey bro, you may want to bump your throttle down out of auto at about 3 or 4 meters...and turn the wheel brake off... ck your trim... slow decent speed..is key.. on the deck close the throttle..

[Safari Ken]

For myself, there is no way in hell I am gonna land on a FARP without using auto-hover to help assist in positioning.

 

To others with more skill, good on ya!

 

You'll never get that skill if you keep using auto-hover. :smilewink: I myself am a passable pilot at best, but I force myself to try a hover landing every time. It takes a long time sometimes, but I get better every time. That skill then transfers to other flying situations, and I find myself with much more control in general.

 

As for the tipping over on landing, I do that sometimes when I don't realize I've touched the deck, and so don't lower the collective all the way. In those cases, any cyclic movement to the side comes real close to capsizing me. Good lord, I've broken a lot of rotors that way. :doh:

[Frederf]

My first suggestion is to check and make sure the wheels are free spinning on landing. Having locked brakes is asking for a tip over situation.

 

My suggestion for landing is start at some speed and altitude and reduce both gradually at the same time. Take your time and come in from a ways off (into the wind helps as well). You want to come in at a constant angle just like an airplane so you get a good stabilized approach and can a feel for where you're heading.

 

You do not want to use auto-hover, trim reset, or land straight down.

[slug88]

hey bro, you may want to bump your throttle down out of auto at about 3 or 4 meters...

 

Lowering the throttle during landing is not standard operating procedure, and in fact I wouldn't be surprised if it was prohibited in real life. Also, lowering the throttle won't really do anything for you that simply lowering the collective wouldn't accomplish, except for severely limiting your ability to react in case sudden maneuvering is required.

[Scrape]

Also make sure there is no lateral drift. If you are sliding sideways and touch down with out countering this first, you could have problems. Bottom line becomes to practice hovering until you can do it at will at any altitude. When you can do that landing won't be a problem.

[PeterP]

how to land the BS!! HELP!

:) I had to chuckle a little when I read this title at the general forum...

but I fully understand you!

 

As my pre posters already mention - It's not only a question of the right autopilot functions.

The answer is similar to the question "How I get this woman to visit my bedroom and maybe stay overnight?":)

 

You have to be very patient and gentle...

 

To be more clearly and more on-topic:

I had to train it on and on - and realized that when I came to a point where I was actual thinking what to do "right now" it was almost to late...

 

(edit: and I had a hard time to throw away all bad behaviours I had left over from over hundreds flying hours in MSFS-Helicopters -BS is a whole different league...you can't compare)

 

No I'm at a point where I concentrate my mind at the next 5sec ahead and my muscles are handling "the now" subconsciously.

 

It took me 2weeks everyday 1houer -before bedtime- only training landings and Hover to have this "foresight" in my muscles - and I react now almost without thinking what to do while in hover (auto hover off). I'm only concentrating what happens the next 5 sec... and I just do it.

 

I'm right now at a point that I spot a point and I land "almost" exactly on it at the first attempt.

 

And I hope this will happen to you also (BTW: It's a great felling when that the machine is not controlling you any more -and you realise that you control the machine!).

 

And I also realised that this is not like "driving a bike" - when I was away for 3 day's from the controls I had to train this again for at least half an hour to get back to the stage I have been before.:P

(And right now I learn/train my self all over again with a full weapon load - the next step will be with winds...)

And Trim, Trim and than again Trim. And when You think you got it: Trim again - It has to be like hitting the clutch in a car -a absolute automatic behaviour.

And wait for the point where you move in the zone off the ground-effect. about 3-5meters over ground.

You have to rearrange your whole power management at this point again!

Edited May 7, 2009 by PeterP

[Safari Ken]

Also make sure there is no lateral drift. If you are sliding sideways and touch down with out countering this first, you could have problems. Bottom line becomes to practice hovering until you can do it at will at any altitude. When you can do that landing won't be a problem.

 

Good point. That little tadpole line in the HUD (which shows which way you're moving and how fast) is key. When I first started with the game, I didn't realize what it was. Now that I do, I love that little fella! :thumbup:

[Jack McCoy]

I agree; do not play with the throttle. I'm hoping our friend slowhand meant the collective.

 

1) I would advise to head into the wind, towards the landing pad.

2) Slow down to 50-70 km/h and trim.

3) Disable the Altitude channel on the autopilt.

4) Establish a constant descent using collective: 200-300 fpm. When you have more experience, you can go down faster, provided you have forward airspeed.

5) Adjust collective to land on the pad. If the pad seems to "move up" relative to your helicopter, you're coming in too steep - add collective. If it moves down, relax collective. See the following article about landing visual cues. It applies to all flight. http://books.google.com/books?id=V3SZXFWuCIgC&pg=PT93&lpg=PT93&dq=estimating+landing+point+reference+descent+angle&source=bl&ots=HkNFKjcKoA&sig=svI-RocDvPwrY0R4RmANJvWE_Kk&hl=en&ei=FPMBSorTMZ6DlAevu6TtBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPT94,M1

 

6) A couple of seconds before touchdown, pull the cyclic back to reduce speed to 0-5km/h. Forward speed will help you line up the nose wheel.

 

Always manoeuver with a gentle touch. Also, on a PC based simulation, joystick potentiometer spiking can cause instability. Lord knows my old Thrusmaster Cougar is spiky in the X axis!

 

Of course, it is possible to land completely vertically, but it adds difficulty. The landing area is not as visible, wind drift becomes a factor, your prop wash, being almost directly below you limits your (safe) vertical speed.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Jack McCoy
typos

[mjolner]

One additional note. When in auto-hover mode, if you engage Descent mode on the collective, you can descend to the ground without the stability channels cutting out. You will just have to be ready to compensate for the ground effect cushion which in auto-hover your not trimmed for.

 

Once down, disengage descent mode, then auto hover, done.

[spyda]

if you drop to hard and fast u can flip the heli, a decent rate of max 3 meters per sec is ideal i find for landing.

[connos]

Practice... Believe me i thought was impossible but now its so easy.

[docehrenhoefer]

If you continue having problems landing the black shark:

 

1. If you have the possibility: do helicopter training using FlightSimulator X, included are a bunch of helicopter related training missions that give you a first feeling towards helo flying

2. first try landing the bs like an aeroplane with forward movement of about 30 km/h: set collective to a slow descent of max. 1 m/s, nose slightly up until you touch the ground . Much easier for beginners (but you´ll have to know how to align to the runway) And don´t forget to lower gear. :smilewink:

3. fly with all autopilot and flight director ON except for altitude hold. Auto hover an standard trimming procedures are much more difficult.

4. Train to hover without auto hover help. Yes, you can do that.

5.training, training, training.

6. Then hover 5m above the runway, lower collective until you touch the ground. Retrim. Vertical takeoff, hover, do it again. Until it works with eyes closed.

7. Raise hovering height to 10m. Train again.

8. Raise hovereing height to 15 m. Train again. (in RL there might be obstacles around an helipad that you must avaoid to hit.)

9.trying to fly the bs without throttle system and rudder pedals is almost effortless.

10. and remember: train with FlightDirector Mode ON!

 

Greetings

 

 

doc-e

[Sulman]

Attitude controls speed / acceleration, collective controls height. Drill this into yourself, repeat it. Try flying rectangular circuits of an airfield, maintaining 100km/h and 250-300metres. Observe the relationship with attitude and the effect on your target airspeed; see how the cab behaves in and out of turns; it's quite dramatic.

 

The transitions are where it becomes tricky, especially below 50km/h. Just be very smooth and it'll come with practice. You need to be able to do it second nature before attempting any ex-flying tasks, like combat!

[nemises]

also, dont forget, if landing on an airfield, you have the option of the rolling aircraft style landing...I think this is much easier than a vertical landing when you are first learning.

 

Make sure to disengage the wheel brakes though, or your burst a tyre :) ...

 

Also, when taxiiing / rolling, use a little bit of collective and the Cyclic to turn, not the rudders...

[muamshai]

Do not use autohover to land. That is not its intended purpose and it will happily get you killed if you don't understand its lilmitation (like the fact that it turns off all stabilization channels if you go under 4 meters ;) )

 

No intention to jack this thread but why? What was Kamov thinking? Why not keep autohover all the way down?

[-Nighthawk-]

It was a huge shock the first time I played DCS and how it was very difficult to get a stable landing, it changed everything I knew about helicopter landings.

 

But after a few days it will become second nature for you, just treat it very gently, not like the rough landings on FSX.

[Nate--IRL--]

No intention to jack this thread but why? What was Kamov thinking? Why not keep autohover all the way down?

 

It seems the Autohover system uses the Doppler radar system, which cannot operate under 4m. Fine, I can understand this, but for Kamov to disengage all of the stabilisation channels, in this situation, seems like they wanted to kill pilots.

 

Nate

[GGTharos]

Interesting assessment. Seems to me like if the helicopter went under 4m with the DNS then suffering from multiple echoes etc it WOULD kill pilots.

 

This might not be modeled in a sim (can't model -everything- most of the time), but these backwards assessments some people make surprise me.

[Sulman]

Nate,

 

I think in the hover regime, assuming a pilot's inputs are typical for that regime of flight (i.e. of a very small magnitude), and the fact that the helicopter will be balanced, the removal of stability control (on a platform that is already dynamically stable) may not be felt much at all.

[Nate--IRL--]

Interesting assessment. Seems to me like if the helicopter went under 4m with the DNS then suffering from multiple echoes etc it WOULD kill pilots.

 

This might not be modeled in a sim (can't model -everything- most of the time), but these backwards assessments some people make surprise me.

 

Fair enough, disengage the DNS and the auto hover system at <4m, but why all of the stabilisation channels too? I just find it odd, I'm not saying its modeled incorrectly.

 

Nate,

 

I think in the hover regime, assuming a pilot's inputs are typical for that regime of flight (i.e. of a very small magnitude), and the fact that the helicopter will be balanced, the removal of stability control (on a platform that is already dynamically stable) may not be felt much at all.

 

True, but the KA-50 is not Dynamically stable without the Stabilisation channels engaged. Manually bring the shark to a hover then disengage all of the stabilisation channels and see what happens.

 

Nate