General FFB Base talks (Was: What are FFB sticks available? (Was FFB or MFSSB?))

[Dogmanbird]

had a bit of time to continue it today. I'm about to attach encoders (on the outside of motor). Will try a 25mm stator first and then try with the 30mm motors. Will figure out stabilising it and covers later, once I check how much inertia there is with a long stick and how much flex there is with what's presently there in the mounting

if all goes to plan, the gimbal mechanism can be flipped 180 degrees, so motors are underneath and stick attachment can come up through a floor, keeping things relatively flush with floor. Initially I intend to use it sitting directly on the floor with some kind of bracing to spread the load without fastening it to anything, so it can be picked up easily and moved out of the room if needed.

edit - what's in the pics weighs exactly 10kg with 25mm motors

 

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Edited January 27 by Dogmanbird

[Dogmanbird]

so far so good using the ffbeast test mode. 

 

 

[propeler]

On 1/27/2025 at 10:39 AM, Dogmanbird said:

exactly 10kg with 25mm motors

It will not be enough to hold it in place even on 25% of force

[MAXsenna]

5 hours ago, propeler said:

It will not be enough to hold it in place even on 25% of force

Yeah, he needs a heavy mounting plate with lockable castor wheels.

On 1/27/2025 at 10:39 AM, Dogmanbird said:

Initially I intend to use it sitting directly on the floor with some kind of bracing to spread the load without fastening it to anything, so it can be picked up easily and moved out of the room if needed. 

 

Edited January 30 by MAXsenna

[ebabil]

somebody gotta warn FEMA

[Dogmanbird]

It's pretty rough to look at but so far it's working the way i'd hoped. Plenty of power even with a 70cm stick and holding the very top. My seat sits on the rails and keeps everything in place. Can move it out of room easily when needed. I'll replace the dowel with a broken carbon fibre stand up paddle shaft.

You can feel very slight but smooth lumps from the motor poles but so far it hasn't affected the precision when heli flying. I barely noticed it when flying the spitfire. There doesn't seem to be any heat generated by anything, even running for a couple of hours at 25% power, though I was switching back and forth between the chopper and spitfire 

The centre of where I grip the stick is about 53cm from the gimbal pivot point. The VKB grip will attach at about 44cm, so I'm very happy with that. 

edit - worked out to about $520 aud by the time a broke a couple of drill bits, wore out flap disks, flux core wire and primer

Edited February 12 by Dogmanbird

[propeler]

True VR friendly grip

[Dogmanbird]

yes

 

btw, it still has the 25mm magnet motors on it.  May be more of an advantage using the 30's on a steering wheel?

[Aapje]

7 hours ago, Dogmanbird said:

It's pretty rough to look at but so far it's working as expected.

Looks like this design allows you to lower the pivot point as much as possible. Nice job.

7 hours ago, Dogmanbird said:

I'll replace the dowel with a broken carbon fibre stand up paddle shaft.

Just wear proper protection if you have to cut that shaft to size. Carbon fiber dust is bad for you.

[Dogmanbird]

thank you 

[Dogmanbird]

How much latency would there be between two PC's on the same local network, on a multiplayer server? I've done it several times with pilot and door gunner in the choppers but never been able to measure or see anything as we were both using VR headsets in different rooms.

If I was to build a second joystick (and eventually ffb pedals / collective) also running on a second PC, could that work okay for trying to teach people to fly or as a general flight experience, in something like the huey with pilot and crew chief? Would the LAN provide consistent and accurate copy of the pilots control inputs and FFB info for the crew chief PC?

[propeler]

Never tried it.... Question interest me as well

[MAXsenna]

How much latency would there be between two PC's on the same local network, on a multiplayer server? I've done it several times with pilot and door gunner in the choppers but never been able to measure or see anything as we were both using VR headsets in different rooms.

If I was to build a second joystick (and eventually ffb pedals / collective) also running on a second PC, could that work okay for trying to teach people to fly or as a general flight experience, in something like the huey with pilot and crew chief? Would the LAN provide consistent and accurate copy of the pilots control inputs and FFB info for the crew chief PC?

Well, if you were to be in the same room, I'd just physically connect them together like in real life.

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[Dogmanbird]

but if both were using VR, would still need a second PC. If physically joined together it might be awkward if there's a bit of lag between the pc's? 

just remembered that I've got two accounts with huey in each, so i'll try connecting two pc's at home, with the ffb stick connected to the co pilot pc and fly from a normal joystick and see what happens. will report back

Edited February 6 by Dogmanbird

[MAXsenna]

but if both were using VR, would still need a second PC. If physically joined together it might be awkward if there's a bit of lag between the pc's? 
just remembered that I've got two accounts with huey in each, so i'll try connecting two pc's at home, with the ffb stick connected to the co pilot pc and fly from a normal joystick and see what happens. will report back

Back in the days doing LAN parties, the lag was like <5ms. Not sure about the DCS protocols though. The best way in any case would of course be a physical connection, where you can override whatever the student is doing. Just make sure both sticks are plugged into the same computer.

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[Dogmanbird]

 just tested with both PC's. Maybe there's no absolute stick position info passed on to the ffb stick. This applies to using the joystick on the second PC, or when the two joysticks are connected to the same PC as Max has suggested. There's no response to the non ffb stick movement. I've also tested using a track replay

@propeler  Would this be something not present in DCS or the ffbeast firmware (or both)? Would it be something that could be added as an option in the FFBeast firmware if it's the missing link?

The latency between the two PC's is no more than about 50-100ms from what i can see. Both connected to the same switch via 1G ethernet ports. The two monitors used have no motion flow / Gsync feature and no lag.

Thanks again

Edited February 7 by Dogmanbird

[Dogmanbird]

I'll test in MSFS 2020 over the next day or so. I've got two copies of that too

[MAXsenna]

@Dogmanbird I guess I misunderstood you at first. If you thought that the 2nd stick would move when moving the 1st one. I could have disappointed you straight away. That must be coded in the software and talk I've the network. and I don't think DirectX will ever do that. It will only work in Helos when trimming. Now the devs of FFBeast and Rhino could code that, while then the software would need to talk over the network. That's why I suggested a physical connection. That's probably your simplest, best and quickest solution no matter what.

Thanks for testing though. 

Cheers! 

[Dogmanbird]

That's okay  See what comes of the next releases

If anyone's in doubt about the forces with a 70cm stick, ive taken a quick video to show the resonance when starting the huey and low rpm's etc at just 25% power. Can get dangerous 

 

extended version for sadists

https://i.imgur.com/v8pyscL.mp4

 

Edited February 7 by Dogmanbird

[Aapje]

Not sure that is safe for work.

[MAXsenna]

44 minutes ago, Aapje said:

Not sure that is safe for work.

[Dogmanbird]

the occasional southern whack keeps you from falling asleep at the controls. I think Propeler did that on purpose 

[MAXsenna]

the occasional southern whack keeps you from falling asleep at the controls. I think Propeler did that on purpose 

Put a glove on it!

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[propeler]

4 hours ago, Dogmanbird said:

Can get dangerous 

 

 

[Dogmanbird]

Video with the weight of a grip attached  (25mm magnets, 20% power setting). I don't want to turn it up much further because of the random leg and groin shots that come out of no where. Those long movements are only present in some of the telemetry effects that you can add. The rest are fine otherwise  It's fixed

https://i.imgur.com/fCzC5aZ.mp4

Edited February 24 by Dogmanbird