Track IR...worth it?

[PoleCat]

In RL I work with digital marketing and communications. Are any of you guys familiar with the notion of 'seeding'?

 

It's a fairly lame marketing ploy that has a bunch of people, who are paid by a commercial entity, travel the web and remind forum denizens, such as us, that a given product exists and maybe invite to praise of said product. I'm not saying that the OP works as a seeder, and please note that I do myself own a TIR (and like it), but my admittedly somewhat old blasée eyes seem to keep noticing the same kind of TIR posts all around the part of the web which concerns itself with sims and wargames.

 

Oh well, probably just a coincidence. I'm sure Naturalpoint wouldn't bore us, its core clients, with seeding, instead of paying for regular advertising like everyone else does when they have products to sell.

 

That is the most paranoid thing I have read in a long while! Could it be more likely that TIR is a just whole lot more popular in the flight sim communtiy and that a lot of people love the product? Doesn't that sound a whole lot more rational? Naturalpoint advertises every where man. Visit some flight sim web sites to see thier ads. Maybe make a post over at thier forums and ask them out right if they do this. My guess...They don't need to and the notion is laughable.

 

Out

Edited May 25, 2009 by PoleCat

[Cap_Z]

I agree with PoleCat. Trackir is a solid product with scads of happy customers (me included) that are happy to put in a good word for a good product.

[Giantsfan24]

Guys, jeez, can we keep this on an adult level. Let's not start a flame war. I'm sure the free products are fine for those wanting to save money. I'll let you know if I think the TIR is worth it when it arrives. Just because ED recommends something does not means they are in cahoots with them or if they are, that they are pushing a bad product. I think all the pos. reviews on this thread along says that TIR, to many people, is invaluble.

[WynnTTr]

In RL I work with digital marketing and communications. Are any of you guys familiar with the notion of 'seeding'?

 

It's a fairly lame marketing ploy that has a bunch of people, who are paid by a commercial entity, travel the web and remind forum denizens, such as us, that a given product exists and maybe invite to praise of said product. I'm not saying that the OP works as a seeder, and please note that I do myself own a TIR (and like it), but my admittedly somewhat old blasée eyes seem to keep noticing the same kind of TIR posts all around the part of the web which concerns itself with sims and wargames.

 

Oh well, probably just a coincidence. I'm sure Naturalpoint wouldn't bore us, its core clients, with seeding, instead of paying for regular advertising like everyone else does when they have products to sell.

 

Where's my tinfoil hat?

 

Maybe the same types of comments keep popping up because of the simple reason that it works... and works well? That it really does add a new dimension to flight-simming?

 

y'know, sometimes the simplest answer.....

[TheMoose]

TrackIr is the best piece of software & hardware that came to be ... I still have version 3 with Vector expansion. I would never look back, awesome service, great product, put you head into the game, what would you ask for more? Hologram? LOL. It’s worth it….Go get it….nuff sayd ;)

Edited May 26, 2009 by TheMoose

[Coax]

It's no secret they seed forums, they do so explicitly under company name and indirectly through third parties like Dyslexi. Implicit seeding is a natural continuation of that trend, they would be stupid not to.

 

Where's my tinfoil hat?

Here it is.

 

Maybe the same types of comments keep popping up because of the simple reason that it works... and works well?

It's nice to know that seeding works for you.

 

That it really does add a new dimension to flight-simming?

Oh, you meant head tracking, but more specifically TIR of course.

 

y'know, sometimes the simplest answer.....

 

... that you're a seeder? Lol. Sorry, but that's the simplest answer that pops into my mind when looking at all the TIR testimonials you've made. =)

[EtherealN]

Let's stop that paranoid childishness, please please pretty please with sugar on top?

 

By that seeder logic I am probably in the green, since I have given glowing reviews on several forums of not only TrackIR, but also the Intel E8xxx line of processors, the nVidia 98xx line of GPU's, Zalman cooling equipment and so on. If people repeatedly giving good reviews of something means they're a seeder, I have one hell of a troop of companies paying me...

 

Easier explanation for there being several testimonials?

THERE IS A NEW THREAD PER WEEK WITH SOMEONE ASKING IF IT'S WORTH GETTING.

 

So those that feel it is worth it respond. Doesn't mean there's a strange pattern going on, it just means they are responding to a common question.

 

Sheesh.

[HansRoaming]

Watch the DVD 'The corporation' seeding is a valid marketing tactic.

 

As for TrackIR 5, am waiting for mine to ship so this thread worked on me :)

[Mugenjin]

I kind of don't get this:

 

Even if NP is actually 'seeding', would that make TIR useless or not worth getting?

[narfnarf]

Easier explanation for there being several testimonials?

THERE IS A NEW THREAD PER WEEK WITH SOMEONE ASKING IF IT'S WORTH GETTING..

 

And those guys must be the seeders! For sure. Kind of fishing for compliments...

 

I agree with Mugenjin here. I don't care whether NP is seeding or not.

Good feedback of customers is, in most cases, just the result of a good product which has only one big drawback and that is the price.

[-fox-]

Well, such marketing strategies (seeding, viral marketingt etc) undeniably exist and are on the rise since plattforms like Amazon introduced customer reviews to the mainstream. It's hard to tell which product receives this kind of treatment (obviously negative reviews can also be the result undercover marketing) and it can indeed lead to paranoid reactions but note that it's not necessarily unfounded.

[NaturalPoint_Vince]

Not to stir the pot, but I have never "seeded" a forum, and usually only post to help a customer with a question they have, or to help with any issues they might have.

 

;)

[Huckle]

Issue: Product is too expensive.

 

;)

[crazysundog]

Issue: Product is too expensive.

 

;)

 

Yes it is!!

 

Then again, so is this flight simming hobby of mine!!

 

:pilotfly:

[PoleCat]

Issue: Product is too expensive.

 

;)

 

Hogwash...You get what you pay for. Worth every penny.

 

Out

[EtherealN]

Not to stir the pot, but I have never "seeded" a forum, and usually only post to help a customer with a question they have, or to help with any issues they might have.

 

;)

 

Now you've gone and done it. I hear tinfoil hats flying around already! :D

 

I'll make sure to come up with some glaring deficiency in my TrackIR in time for the next TrackIR thread, just to make sure. The only one I can come up with right now is that they are a pita to get hold of here in sweden. :P

 

But yeah, product as good as TrackIR you don't really need any seeders to get a precense. Happy customers will "seed" for you. Cheers. ;)

[Swetrekki]

well etherealN, luckily for us swedes there is always the "internet" ;)

[EtherealN]

Aye. I got mine from Flightsim.se, who appear to be stocking it sporadically. I get the impression that they aren't exactly the biggest-budget retailer (like Amazon and all those guys) so I guess they just cannot afford the financial risks of stocking a lot of them.

 

After a week or two of waiting for them to get restocked, I did get mine though, and the fun started immediately. :)

[-fox-]

I imported mine from the Netherlands ( rightthing.nl ) because all in all it was significantly cheaper than any offer I could find in Germany or elsewhere.

[element1108]

if you have the money, worth it 100%...changes the way flight sim's and other games are experienced.

[bumfire]

I have just ordered my Trackir 5, at £140 odd quid I do find it to be a touch on the expensive side regardless of what anyone says.

 

I usually spend a few K yearly on my pc habit but for some reason I just dont seem to think that trackir is worth nearly £150, It maybe great in games and does exactly what it says on the tin, but I just cant seem to get my head around the cost.

 

However that being said, I have ordered one but got it for £100 and saved myself 40 odd quid :) if I had to pay the full price for trackir 5 then I wouldnt of bought it, but I spose cost is relative.

 

It does make the game much more immersive, but on the flip side of that, so can a £5 mouse or a £10 joystick, why their isnt other companies in the market pushin similar but less pricey options is unknown as I am sure if someone came out with a product that did half the job trackir does for say £50 I am sure they would sell lots as I am sure the price of trackir puts alot of ppl off from buying it, you just have to see how many people are using home made trackirs with webcams to see that their is an untapped market who would be willing to buy such an item but not for the price that trackir sells for.

 

thats my tuppence.

[HansRoaming]

Mine just arrived and the experience with it is transformational, every sim, especially combat sims is so much better and also more immersive

 

Worth every penny.

[NaturalPoint - Seth]

I got the opposite impression. I was asked to provide a description of the project, which I promptly did, including vision/concept and screen shots. They did not ask for a demo. I never heard back from them.

 

What's the harm in giving me full enjoyability (including getting data) from my TrackIR? I guess they're afraid I'll sell their sensitive data to the Russians! (I'm a Cold War child ;))

 

I vowed never to encourage people to buy TrackIR, but that would be unfair to my fellow simmers - it's just too good a peripheral to pass on.

 

Doesn't sound familiar. Shoot me an email with the details of your project:

 

seth @ naturalpoint . com

 

It's no secret they seed forums, they do so explicitly under company name and indirectly through third parties like Dyslexi. Implicit seeding is a natural continuation of that trend, they would be stupid not to.

:lol:

 

It regularly amazes me how so many concerned commentators know more about the apparently spurious internal workings of NaturalPoint, Inc. than I do. And I work there! I will concede that I've taken a few days of vacation during my time at NP, so perhaps that's how I missed the super-secret, evil-marketing-ploys brainstorming sessions.

 

We don't pay anybody to lurk on forums and make positive posts about our products. The accusation is totally unfounded. We make products we believe in. We hope that our users enjoy them. We obviously appreciate positive feedback, but that's it. End of story.

 

Seth Steiling

TrackIR Product Manager

[Zembla]

However that being said, I have ordered one but got it for £100 and saved myself 40 odd quid :) if I had to pay the full price for trackir 5 then I wouldnt of bought it, but I spose cost is relative.

 

Indeed, the cost is relative :)

 

The first time I heard about TrackIR I was skeptical, and didn't have much use for it. Or so I thought. I guess this must've been around 2003 or something, it was ages ago. After a while it got more and more common, and people started recommending it.

 

Only with 6DOF I started seeing the benefit of it, and I had an itch to get one. That itch was growing, and it wasn't before fall 2008 that I got mine. I always considered it a big cost, especially considering I'm a mere student, we tend to spend our cash on other stuff than TrackIR. But it was so worth it. I couldn't have half expected how it would completely change my flight sim experience. It is such a tremendous tool, and it frees up joystick functions, and immerses you that one bit more.

 

Before I got it, I thought it was expensive, but in the end, I've spent more money on products that I've seen a lot less enjoyment, or a lot less result from. In other words, I'm entirely happy with the money spent, because heck it was worth it.

 

-Z

Edited June 8, 2009 by Zembla

[Maximus_G]

Gave me headaches! I sent it back.

 

The only good thing about Trackir is the device itself, the hardware working well. Though i'm still not sure that 4 IR LEDs pointing directly into my eyes do not pose any harm. Well, i just don't like the idea of lighting that way, whether it's visible or invisible IR light.

 

Anyway, everything else about Trackir is disappointing. First of all, the software. From the very start of Trackir 1 appearance, i saw many people puzzled to see it using its own closed interface instead of standard Windows Directinput. That's not bad by itself, but that did look strange, for there had to be some unexplained reason about it.

The years have passed, and now we face the situation when we just can't use old Trackir with modern games like DCS, because new games work only with the new TIR software, but it doesn't support TIR 1 and 2. So, if you bought your TIR, you're not guaranteed to be allowed to use it with new games in the future, as it happened with TIR 1 & 2 users.

That's the beauty of a closed interface.

 

For those not satisfied with the standard TIR software abilities, there were 3rd party programs, acting as middleware, FreeTrack for example. By using it, TIR 1 user can play a modern game, if he changes view controls in the game to a standard DirectInput device. But well, "Natural Point™ requested us to remove Track-IR™ cameras support from FreeTrack." Oops.

Reasons? Consider yourself.

"Concurrent access to the TrackIR data for multiple games at a time was never part of the official specification. Some applications were utilizing this (when they should not have been), which caused them to break when we updated the TrackIR interface to conform more closely with the specification."

 

Moving further, TIR software functionality is very basic. Just play with the response curves. And if you're not satisfied with it, it's just not for you then.

Sometimes people feel unconfortable or even sick when using it. Such a case requires different, more advanced control algorythms. But what if you'd like to implement your own algorythms? Look at the paragraph above.

 

The situation is quite adequate for the point'n'shoot community, but it just goes against the tradition of advanced input hardware utilization, which is usual among the simmer community.

 

Turning back to the hardware question. TIR 4 showed to be prone to overheating, because of deficiency in LED power supply design. At some point the situation became obvious, as many people were complaining about this. What happened next? We were presented a new device, TrackClipPro™. Three LEDs on a wire frame for just 34.95$. What it gives you? You don't need to wear a hat anymore. And also (it isn't mentioned there), LEDs in Trackir stop lighting, thus it doesn't heat. I personally liked that move.

 

Resuming, Trackir is a good piece of hardware, it almost has no alternatives. But i strongly dislike the marketing politic which NaturalPoint has been promoting through all the years. It continuosly hinders people's efforts of using Trackir the way they want it, not the way they're bent.

 

I hope NaturalPoint guys will read it and think about it once more.