Old CH-47F Pilots takeaways

[HMSSURP]

Sir or Ma'am,

        As an old CH-47D/F PIC and MTP I can say I LOVE your product.  Obviously it has a lot of work before the final product but I think you are well on your way to an awesome simulator.  Here are some of my takeaways from my run through of the start up that you are probably already aware of but if not then I hope they help.

     Before I get started here, let me start with saying I have still not been given permission to reference my old CH-47F materials so I have purposely not done so.  So everything I discuss here is going off nearly 10 year old memory or CH-47D manuals.  So if you think you have better information on a topic I bring up all I can say is you are probably right!

1.  DAFCS.  I understand this is a work in progress.  So take what I say here with a grain of salt and a lot of paitence.  Currently what you have going seems to be a hybrid between AFCS on and AFCS off.  With AFCS on the aircraft should maintain pitch, roll, and yaw attitudes and heading based off the last place you pressed the CDR.  That is regardless of weather you have any type of holds or other advanced features engaged or not.  Additionally, when flying in forward flight AFCS on should maintain your trim automatically.  To put it simply, when I was yanking and banking I could do so with my feet off the pedals because the aircraft would keep the aircraft in trim for me.  Finally, at a hover that thing is going to want to keep your exact attidue and heading again regardless of any hold features engaged.  One of the checks we did for maintenance test flights was to push the aircraft out of their set postions WITHOUT pushing the CDR and ensuring the aircraft returned to the last selected attitude.  Going off pure memory here.  I want to say for pitch, roll, and yaw it was +-1.5 degrees.  Though I may be off on that.  You can reference the CH-47D MTF manual to get those exact numbers.

Now, AFCS off you are going to have to work the pedals and controls to keep a good attitude and trim condition at all times.

2.  CDR:  The CDR doesn't appear to do anything.  You all have a great system in the Huey which I would love to see mirrored in the -47!

3.  Flight control sweep.  Right now you have it set for max forward +6.5 and max aft -4.5.  If I recall the CH-47F correctly the MINIMUM control sweep should have been +7 and -4.5.  The CH-47D manuals said +7 to -4 but I seem to remember the CH-47F has a bit wider margin.

4.  CGI:  The CGI test button does not cause the CGI to do anything.  Additionally, I did not notice movement of the CGI in flight.  This guage should be a quick reference performance indicator.  The heavier/faster/more agressive you fly the higher that needle raises.

5.  In your start up guide there is no clear explaination on spooling up the EGIs, radios, etch.  I seem to remember in the old 8.4 software of the CH-47F we had to go in manually to start all that stuff up.  But I can not for the love of me remember the proper sequence.  I can find that the EGIs need to be turned on in your simulator so I think there is something to my memory on that so anything you have on that added into the simulator startup guide would be appreciated (unless I completely missed it then I appologize)!  Oh, I will say this too.  I asked a buddy of mine who just retired a year ago to guide me through the start up of all the avionics and stuff and he said "Crap man, we were on such an later software then 8.4 when I retired.  All that stuff is automatic now."  So maybe that would be something to incorporate into your sim.  Have all those EGIs and stuff auto spool up?

Well, this is what I got for now.  I hope some of it may be helpful.  Either way, thank you for the consideration!  And again, awesome job!

Edited September 12, 2024 by HMSSURP

[HMSSURP]

Oh, one more thing I have noticed.  The EAPS lights should not come on if the EAPS are not installed.  If I recall the system correctly you had to have the actual cans installed in order to close the circuit to allow the lights to illuminate and then they only came on if the switch was in the on position and:  "Pressure switch within No. 1/2 EAPS has sensed a pressure differential of 10 psi, indicating a partial blockage of inlet air."  That is from the CH-47D operators manual 31 Jan 2003 which is APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE.

Also, when you turn the FADEC BU power switch on you should get some warnings and cautions.  I know in the D models it was 6 and 2.  FADEC 1 and 2, REV 1 and 2, ENG FAIL 1 & 2, and the two master cautions.  They should come on and then go out in 12 seconds. That is from the CH-47D MTF manual 31 Jan 2003 which is APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE.

Edited September 15, 2024 by HMSSURP

[HMSSURP]

OH, and totally petty here.  I would set the overhead counsel FADEC panel LOADSHARE TRQ/PTIT switch to a default of TRQ.  We never operated in PTIT except RARE situations, usually enviromental extremes, so that switch was alway in the TRQ position right off.

Edited September 14, 2024 by HMSSURP

[HMSSURP]

One more. Brake pedals are not working from the left seat.  As the one time brakes are most often used (4 wheel taxi) and the added fact this is always done from the left seat this is a definite “please fix!”

[fargo007]

Great thread - please keep it up! 

 

 

[HMSSURP]

I found a great youtube video set from a current CH-47F pilot titled 47Driver! I definetely recommend his channel for good info on the H-47 in DCS!

[Andrew8604]

On 9/28/2024 at 5:37 PM, HMSSURP said:

I found a great youtube video set from a current CH-47F pilot titled 47Driver! I definetely recommend his channel for good info on the H-47 in DCS!

HMSSURP, if you wanted to manually tune in a frequency in the -47F, would you have to go into the CDU and enter a frequency into one of the UHF, VHF or FM radio presets and then select that preset?  It seems very unintuitive in DCS.  Did the -47D or maybe -47C have separate radio control panels where you just turn knobs and select either preset channels or dial in the frequency?

That and that it's pretty much uncontrollable to fly with AFCS off and requires 100% attention to fly with it on.  The autopilot hold settings are very confusing, too.  I can't get it to work.  So, when I duck my head down to try to figure out what I want on the CDU, within a few seconds I look up and see I'm in an uncommanded dive, because the AFCS in DCS seems to provide an unstable aircraft.  If I'm looking forward and making constant corrections with the cyclic, I can fly it pretty smoothly.  Man!!  I sure like the analog cockpit of the Huey in DCS a whole lot better!   I just find it easier to read those instruments.  Plus, you trim it up and it stays pretty good, even in hover.  It's fun to fly.  I think I'm repeating pretty much all that you said but in more layman's terms.  Also, in ground taxiing the -47F, sometimes it will go forward and sometimes it won't.  I sure haven't got that figured out yet.

I love flying that Huey in DCS!  The only real helicopter I've flown was about 30 mins in a USBP (ex-Army) OH-6A about 28 years ago.  One approach to hover, which I held about 10 seconds, and then the pilot took over as I was beginning to lose it.

[Andrew8604]

UPDATE: DCS ver 2.9.10.4160 -- CH-47F AFCS much improved.  It flies pretty steady and stable now.  No more finding oneself in a dive after a few seconds of looking down at the center console.