Super Hornet

[Supernova-III]

The idea is simple: I want to have full fidelity F/A-18E (maybe also F and G). It's a very cool jet. Is there any chance for this?

[AndyJWest]

The answer is very simple too: No, there is no chance for this, since ED requires freely-available published sources to model an aircraft and its systems, and it isn't available.

[Tank50us]

5 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

The answer is very simple too: No, there is no chance for this, since ED requires freely-available published sources to model an aircraft and its systems, and it isn't available.

I mean, enough of it is available to make the module, and much can be inferred from the Legacy hornet. However, that's not good enough for much of the player base who will refuse a module if the pixelated rivets aren't in the exact right place.

Edited September 22, 2024 by Tank50us

[SharpeXB]

[Supernova-III]

13 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

The answer is very simple too: No, there is no chance for this, since ED requires freely-available published sources to model an aircraft and its systems, and it isn't available.

Let them (I mean Eagle Dynamics) tell us "no". If you don't wanna have super hornet, just feel free to skip this topic...

Edited September 22, 2024 by Supernova-III

[Ithronwise]

6 minutes ago, Supernova-III said:

Let them (I mean Eagle Dynamics) tell us "no". If you don't wanna have super hornet, just feel free to skip this topic...

He explained what the problem is: ED needs freely and official available information about the Super Hornet to simulate the avionics and weapon systems as exactly as possible. But these information are classified. DCS isn't a just-for-fun-game like Ace Combat. It's a simulator with game elements and for a simulator you need accurate data from the object you want to simulate. If you don't get these information you cannot make a simulator. You only could try to make a "this-should-be-close-enough" game in the best case. ED has a higher standard.

[Silver_Dragon]

Has many discussions and posts over the F/A-18E super hornet.

Actually ED has no plans about a F/A-18E, other 3rd parties have not confirmed anything. And in the previous post, a F/A-18E Block I has a fighter with degraded capability vs a F/A-18C Lot 20. The Block II and III has secrets / restricted by your systems and avionics (talked about in the previous post). 

Remember the 3rd parties need to put over the table "open source" info. Any restricted data, has been banned by ED.

Skatezilla explain very well the F/A-18E "FF module" status:

-------------
 

Lot 21, 22, 23 were LRIP But also retained most of the Legacy Hornet Lot 20/21 Systems as they were meant to be transitional jets, (~90% w/ Lot 20 C/D),
However there are undocumented changes to the QC-DFBW System, most note-ably how the channels are managed, as the new system auto trims for damage, failures and changing aircraft weight profile etc etc. There's also changes in the UFC and the Data and SOI Master Program, which is also not publicly documented.

Lot 24 were Full Production runs w/ modifications from the LRIP group.
* Anything after that is classified, and you wont see the manuals required available to the public.
* However the non-public changes to the SOI Master program and DFBW system would make it hard for ED to integrate them, not to mention changes in the weapons programs, as the SMS is also adjusted due to canted pylons clearance rules, and wing loading/weight limits.

Lot 25 had the updated displays, new Processors and moved from SCS-OFPs to the new HOL-OFPs.
Lot 26 is the start of Block II, though shipping delays with the APG-79, had them being delivered with the old APG-73 until units were procured and installed in the field or depo..

Lot 26 Has the redesigned forward fuselage frame, ACS Was Integrated w/ ability for WSO to have a de-coupled cockpit, 8x10 Display, Updated networking and modems, DVM, AMC&Ds, as well as new RWR and Countermeasure systems (ALQ214), 

 

As far as Lot 20 Charlie vs Lot 23/24 Echo,
You'd Lose all the Unguided rail / tube launched A2G munitions due to the Canted Pylons and the restrictions APKWS was not integrated anytime during Block I roll outs.
You'd have an Increase in drag, lower overall top speed, the 2 extra pylons and more fuel are the only increases. Your basically getting a less capable heavier draggier airframe that looks similar in the cockpit, but flies completely different.
------------------

Edited September 22, 2024 by Silver_Dragon

[upyr1]

If there is enough information for an early super hornet, I'd buy it. In the mean time this is on my wishlist for AI assets which is published by  Janes btw 

[Dragon1-1]

Wouldn't a Lot 24 Superbug have an option for buddy pod AAR? That's one thing our Hornet lacks compared to Super Hornet models.

[F-2]

On 9/22/2024 at 6:18 AM, Silver_Dragon said:

Has many discussions and posts over the F/A-18E super hornet.

Actually ED has no plans about a F/A-18E, other 3rd parties have not confirmed anything. And in the previous post, a F/A-18E Block I has a fighter with degraded capability vs a F/A-18C Lot 20. The Block II and III has secrets / restricted by your systems and avionics (talked about in the previous post). 

Remember the 3rd parties need to put over the table "open source" info. Any restricted data, has been banned by ED.

Skatezilla explain very well the F/A-18E "FF module" status:

-------------
 

Lot 21, 22, 23 were LRIP But also retained most of the Legacy Hornet Lot 20/21 Systems as they were meant to be transitional jets, (~90% w/ Lot 20 C/D),
However there are undocumented changes to the QC-DFBW System, most note-ably how the channels are managed, as the new system auto trims for damage, failures and changing aircraft weight profile etc etc. There's also changes in the UFC and the Data and SOI Master Program, which is also not publicly documented.

Lot 24 were Full Production runs w/ modifications from the LRIP group.
* Anything after that is classified, and you wont see the manuals required available to the public.
* However the non-public changes to the SOI Master program and DFBW system would make it hard for ED to integrate them, not to mention changes in the weapons programs, as the SMS is also adjusted due to canted pylons clearance rules, and wing loading/weight limits.

Lot 25 had the updated displays, new Processors and moved from SCS-OFPs to the new HOL-OFPs.
Lot 26 is the start of Block II, though shipping delays with the APG-79, had them being delivered with the old APG-73 until units were procured and installed in the field or depo..

Lot 26 Has the redesigned forward fuselage frame, ACS Was Integrated w/ ability for WSO to have a de-coupled cockpit, 8x10 Display, Updated networking and modems, DVM, AMC&Ds, as well as new RWR and Countermeasure systems (ALQ214), 

 

As far as Lot 20 Charlie vs Lot 23/24 Echo,
You'd Lose all the Unguided rail / tube launched A2G munitions due to the Canted Pylons and the restrictions APKWS was not integrated anytime during Block I roll outs.
You'd have an Increase in drag, lower overall top speed, the 2 extra pylons and more fuel are the only increases. Your basically getting a less capable heavier draggier airframe that looks similar in the cockpit, but flies completely different.
------------------

 

If I remember correctly Boeing helped with the lot 20 (why we have the Betty recordings) I’m not sure if they were the ones who provided the lot 20 documents but those are not floating around online. Perhaps that partnership could continue now that the hornet is out of EA.

[Silver_Dragon]

18 minutes ago, F-2 said:

If I remember correctly Boeing helped with the lot 20 (why we have the Betty recordings) I’m not sure if they were the ones who provided the lot 20 documents but those are not floating around online. Perhaps that partnership could continue now that the hornet is out of EA.

@SkateZilla

[SkateZilla]

1 hour ago, Silver_Dragon said:

@SkateZilla

Boeing licensing doesn't have anything to do with me.
But all Lot 20 manuals are available without restriction (except a few things.)

The same cannot be said for the Super Hornet.

[F-2]

4 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Boeing licensing doesn't have anything to do with me.
But all Lot 20 manuals are available without restriction (except a few things.)

The same cannot be said for the Super Hornet.

Wait are they? That’s interesting, I could request them?

[SkateZilla]

9 hours ago, F-2 said:

Wait are they? That’s interesting, I could request them?

Pretty sure there are pre-requirements, you cant just email and be like I want all the Manuals for F/A-18C Lots 20 through 22 and they reply back with PDF Links.

[Dangerzone]

No, you certainly can’t just email them.  You’re got to start arguing about it on the WT forums until someone wants to prove a point and post the documents there.

[pjbunnyru]

12 минут назад, Dangerzone сказал:

Нет, вы, конечно, не можете просто отправить им письмо по электронной почте. Вам придется начать спорить об этом на форумах WT, пока кто-нибудь не захочет доказать свою точку зрения и разместить там документы.

[Supernova-III]

1 hour ago, Dangerzone said:

No, you certainly can’t just email them.  You’re got to start arguing about it on the WT forums until someone wants to prove a point and post the documents there.

you made my day man

[SkateZilla]

Umm, yeah, prolly shouldn't discuss other sim's / forums shenanigans here.

[Kev2go]

 

On 9/22/2024 at 1:26 PM, upyr1 said:

If there is enough information for an early super hornet, I'd buy it. In the mean time this is on my wishlist for AI assets which is published by  Janes btw 

yeah wonder what janes or vrs had for source material. 

[SkateZilla]

9 hours ago, Kev2go said:

 

yeah wonder what janes or vrs had for source material. 

Janes was *FAR* from Full fidelity, and more Fake N Bake. If you want a confirmation, you can ask Wags, he worked with Jane's and is listed in the F/A-18 Credits.

as for VRS, nevermind, I don't have anything positive to say, and if I want to be frank, outside of TacPack, if TacPack didnt exist for FSX/P3D, their Product would have never gotten the recognition it had received, there are 3 Super Hornets (1 by MS, 2 by 3rd Party) for FS'24, and they are all Fake N Bake Systems.. 

[Kev2go]

5 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Janes was *FAR* from Full fidelity, and more Fake N Bake. If you want a confirmation, you can ask Wags, he worked with Jane's and is listed in the F/A-18 Credits.

sure but i would say that could be mostly attributed due to the technological limitations of the time preventing feasibility of such fidelity that is available today. By this logic 3rd parties that pushed the boundries with certain systems modelling within DCS , namely  radar and EW/RWR and set new benchmarks , and in turn anything not caught up to the same standard is now fake n bake. 

 

5 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

as for VRS, nevermind, I don't have anything positive to say, and if I want to be frank, outside of TacPack, if TacPack didnt exist for FSX/P3D, their Product would have never gotten the recognition it had received, there are 3 Super Hornets (1 by MS, 2 by 3rd Party) for FS'24, and they are all Fake N Bake Systems.. 

 

IT was a great trainer for the F/A18C. i could fly the legacy day 1 release. even familiar with ATFLIR and the shared weapons systems. just not having new touchscreen UFCD,  extra pylons and shorter station time really, so from my POV pretty great for  so called "fake n bake" systems, especially for its time. Flying the DCS hornet is mostly more fun not because  i view a legacy is as a better platform then a super hornet but just because of the combat environment.

 

 

Although to be fair this thread was far more convincing then the arguments you or anyone else that would make me not want to see the Super Hornet any time soon.

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2024 by Kev2go

[Sonoda Umi]

8 hours ago, Kev2go said:

sure but i would say that could be mostly attributed due to the technological limitations of the time preventing feasibility of such fidelity that is available today. By this logic 3rd parties that pushed the boundries with certain systems modelling within DCS , namely  radar and EW/RWR and set new benchmarks , and in turn anything not caught up to the same standard is now fake n bake. 

 

 

IT was a great trainer for the F/A18C. i could fly the legacy day 1 release. even familiar with ATFLIR and the shared weapons systems. just not having new touchscreen UFCD,  extra pylons and shorter station time really, so from my POV pretty great for  so called "fake n bake" systems, especially for its time. Flying the DCS hornet is mostly more fun not because  i view a legacy is as a better platform then a super hornet but just because of the combat environment.

 

 

Although to be fair this thread was far more convincing then the arguments you or anyone else that would make me not want to see the Super Hornet any time soon.

 

 

 

 

+1

F/A-18C is a very capable trainer, and an Aggressor Aircraft as well.

But for combat environment, I'd like to use F/A-18F not C, due to its 2-seat configuration like F-14 and higher range and ammunition capabilities.

I have took away from F/A-18C for combat missions because of too limited fuel and payload.

[perryverde]

    it would be time if super hornet!!

[SkateZilla]

Of the list of manuals needed for PFM and Systems Development:
A1-F18EA-NFM-200, Available
A1-F18EA-NFM-500, Available
 

A1-F18EA-NFM-600, Not Available
A1-F18EA-NFM-700, Not Available
A1-F18EA-TAC-000, Not Available
A1-F18EA-TAC-010, Not Available
A1-F18EA-TAC-100, Not Available
A1-F18EA-TAC-020, Not Available
A1-F18EA-TAC-300, Not Available

So I seriously doubt it's time.

[Kev2go]

On 10/20/2024 at 7:20 AM, SkateZilla said:

Of the list of manuals needed for PFM and Systems Development:
A1-F18EA-NFM-200, Available
A1-F18EA-NFM-500, Available
 

A1-F18EA-NFM-600, Not Available
A1-F18EA-NFM-700, Not Available
A1-F18EA-TAC-000, Not Available
A1-F18EA-TAC-010, Not Available
A1-F18EA-TAC-100, Not Available
A1-F18EA-TAC-020, Not Available
A1-F18EA-TAC-300, Not Available

So I seriously doubt it's time.

 

i don't recall ever coming across legacy hornet tacmans either

But then again even tacpack Superhornet weapon systems procedurally from what i recalled was virtually identical to legacy features. Either they used legacy hornet tacmans as a stand in and hoped no one would notice or the F/A18E-F tacman they had for a block 1 super hornet really was similar to how Legacy hornet functions. Or they used Boeings avionics handbooks. Although i personally have not come across  Greybooks ( legacy) or goldbooks ( super) myself either.