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Old Novalogic sims on steam


RedTiger

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I just took a look at Steam and look what I found:

 

http://store.steampowered.com/publisher/NovaLogic/

 

Yeah, Novalogic sims weren't know for being top-notch, and were often arcade. but I'd thought I share. For the record, I think these things should probably be abandon-ware at this point and I think its practically robbery to still sell these, but hey, if you want them, you can get them in a format that will actually run on Windows XP/Vista.

 

The F-22 one looked tempting until I noticed an exploding building in one of the screenshots. Read the description about using tactical nukes. Yeah, no thanks. If you're going to be arcade, at least let me do air to air only. Mud moving in a Raptor is just wrong, so very, very wrong.


Edited by RedTiger
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Hey, the tactical nuke mission in that game is actually pretty fun. And mind you, the F-22 isn't a pure-bred A2A-bird anymore.

 

Sadly though, most of those sims fall on the point that I already own LockOn which is so much better, even though I have most of them on disc somewhere. (I was a proper Novalogic nerd way back. :P )

 

EDIT: Wow... They've released Tachyon there as well... Now I'm really tempted.


Edited by EtherealN

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I have MiG-29 Fulcrum and F-16 Multirole Fighter.

 

I remind these two titles nice... but not due of their realism (they haven't any except speeches which are wonderful) but simple sentiment. I am bit suprised Steam picked up so old titles there.

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No, the F-22 is totally air to air. I could handle lobbing a JDAM. Using nukes? No thanks. Its not the nukes that bother me, its the fact that I'm dropping them from an F-22. Send the B-2 instead!

 

I'm still tempted by the F-22 one, TBH. The main killer is the fact that I am completely spoiled by TrackIR. I don't think I could go back to hat switches and padlocks anymore.

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As DarkWanderer indicated, it is quite a while since the F-22 was "totally air to air". It was given ATG capability a good while ago.

 

As for B-2's, that would be fair if we were talking big thermonuclear warheads, but we are not. This is tactical nukes. From my recollection of the nuclear deployments depicted in the game we are on the scale where you deploy against airbase-sized targets. Using a stealth fighter to deploy weapons on such a target does make sense - why fly a B-2 from the other end of the globe when you have stealth right there? And that's stealth with supercruise capability and very good self-defence.

 

If I recall correctly, the bombs utilized in that game are those that was originally made specifically for strike fighters, but I can't recall the name of it from the top of my head. I do recall getting one in an airfix fighter plane kit when I was a kid tho, which greatly intrigued my at the time. :P

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I see an article talking about the F-22 using SDBs and JDAMs. I am hesitant to call the ability to launch these weapons to be true ATG capability. A Cessna could drop probably a JDAM if it was programmed before hand, but I don't consider that true ATG. Just my opinion here.

 

TBH, all I really mean is that if I play an F-22 sim, I want to shoot down other fighters and use all the AESA toys. If someone gives me a Raptor sim and I spend half the time flying around dropping JDAMS, I'll pass.

 

And as for the B-2..."strategic" bombers go "tactical" all the time. I cite Every Man a Tiger: The Gulf War Air Campaign for this one. ;)


Edited by RedTiger
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I see an article talking about the F-22 using SDBs and JDAMs. I am hesitant to call the ability to launch these weapons to be true ATG capability. A Cessna could drop probably a JDAM if it was programmed before hand, but I don't consider that true ATG. Just my opinion here.

If by "A2G capability" you meant Su-25-style mud moving - you're right. But to penetrate the AAD and delay a precision strike on a high-value target (maybe even with nuke - JDAM can easily carry a tactical one) - F-22 will be the best choice.

As for "half of time" - don't project your attitude onto the sim ;)

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What he means is that you seem to think that it will ask you to spend a huge portion of your time attacking ground targets. The game doesn't.

 

That's the projection you are doing. You saw the nuke and the blurb about attacking ground targets (or well, city blocks) and immediately seemed to get the impression that it's a mud-mover sim. Which is erroneous.

 

Most of it is air-to-air. They just threw in the nuke as a gimmick to sell the game to those that buy based on the screenies on the back of the box.

 

I see an article talking about the F-22 using SDBs and JDAMs. I am hesitant to call the ability to launch these weapons to be true ATG capability.

 

Well, I think the one substantial A2G capability the F-22 doesn't have that the F-16 does have is the ability to deploy Mavericks. (I could be wrong here.) It is also (afaik) not fitted with rocket pods.

 

But SDB and JDAM deployment is precision ground attack munitions - the former with some impressive standoff range, especially when deployed from supersonic flight. You can attack ground targets in a really serious manner with those munitions, especially since the F-22 can carry 8 SDBs without requiring use of external stores.

 

It's not a CAS plane. But neither is the F-15E, and the 15E is hard to label as anything BUT an A2G bird. (Question to those who know: which A2G capabilities does the 15E have that the 22 doesn't have? If memory serves the 15 doesn't deploy ATGMs or rockets either. Would it be durandal-style airfield denial weapons and/or anti-ship missiles?)

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It is true A2G capability. It is the capability that has evolved in order to keep your machines safer and more out-of-touch from enemy defenses. It the most modern evolution of precision strike capability and is not so much meant for CAS missions as it is for high-threat 'kick down the door' environments.

 

In short, your opinion, such as it is, is simply wrong :)

 

On the other hand, yes, not using an F-22 for what it was meant to do is just ... well. :}

Not a pound for air to ground ;)

 

I see an article talking about the F-22 using SDBs and JDAMs. I am hesitant to call the ability to launch these weapons to be true ATG capability. A Cessna could drop probably a JDAM if it was programmed before hand, but I don't consider that true ATG. Just my opinion here.

 

TBH, all I really mean is that if I play an F-22 sim, I want to shoot down other fighters and use all the AESA toys. If someone gives me a Raptor sim and I spend half the time flying around dropping JDAMS, I'll pass.

 

And as for the B-2..."strategic" bombers go "tactical" all the time. I cite Every Man a Tiger: The Gulf War Air Campaign for this one. ;)

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It can do CAS, but for CAS you probably want an A-10 anyway.

 

The F-15E does strike/penetration missions best, and potentially interdiction/hunting.

It can, AFAIK, deploy LGBs, JDAMs, SDBs, SLAMs, AGM-130's, Mavricks, and all sorts of other guided goodies.

 

It's not a CAS plane. But neither is the F-15E, and the 15E is hard to label as anything BUT an A2G bird. (Question to those who know: which A2G capabilities does the 15E have that the 22 doesn't have? If memory serves the 15 doesn't deploy ATGMs or rockets either. Would it be durandal-style airfield denial weapons and/or anti-ship missiles?)
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Oh, sweet, cheers. :)

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I see an article talking about the F-22 using SDBs and JDAMs. I am hesitant to call the ability to launch these weapons to be true ATG capability. A Cessna could drop probably a JDAM if it was programmed before hand, but I don't consider that true ATG. Just my opinion here.

 

 

The F-22 has planned upgrades to have full radar AG mapping modes capable of directing JDAMs. Unlike a sessna it would actualy take off with a couple of them plus avoiding being wiped out form the sky at 300km :D

 

It will never be a CAS aircraft though.

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It is true A2G capability. It is the capability that has evolved in order to keep your machines safer and more out-of-touch from enemy defenses. It the most modern evolution of precision strike capability and is not so much meant for CAS missions as it is for high-threat 'kick down the door' environments.

 

You mentioned other things besides JDAMS and the like. I stand corrected, didn't know they can drop those. I'm hesitant to call the ability to drop a bomb out the window that can do practically all the guidance on its own if set up in advanced to be "air to ground", no matter how high, fast, or stealthy you are. I'd also be hesitant to consider the ability to launch a stinger from from the door of a C-130 to be "air to air".

 

In short, your opinion, such as it is, is simply wrong :)

 

Yes, I get it. I'm not dense, this is all semantics on my part. ;) If I install a bomb bay on a stock SR-71, is it now capable of air to ground because I can drop a JDAM from 80,000 feet? If I designate it the SR-71E, paint it a different color and add a second crew member to handle the bombs...what about then? If Manfred von Richthofen tosses a grenade out of his cockpit into the trenches below, is he now a bomber pilot? :smilewink:

 

By the way, GG, opinions can be stupid, foolish, idiotic, and based on poor understanding, but never "wrong". :P


Edited by RedTiger
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What he means is that you seem to think that it will ask you to spend a huge portion of your time attacking ground targets. The game doesn't.

 

That's the projection you are doing. You saw the nuke and the blurb about attacking ground targets (or well, city blocks) and immediately seemed to get the impression that it's a mud-mover sim. Which is erroneous.

 

Most of it is air-to-air. They just threw in the nuke as a gimmick to sell the game to those that buy based on the screenies on the back of the box.

 

Are trying to tell me I should buy it? :D

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Yes, I get it. I'm not dense, this is all semantics on my part. ;) If I install a bomb bay on a stock SR-71, is it now capable of air to ground because I can drop a JDAM from 80,000 feet? If I designate it the SR-71E, paint it a different color and add a second crew member to handle the bombs...what about then? If Manfred von Richthofen tosses a grenade out of his cockpit into the trenches below, is he now a bomber pilot? :smilewink:

 

:lol::megalol: :thumbup:

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i recently picked up the tenth anniversary delta force pack, it comes with all the delta force games up to black hawk down team sabre.

 

Theres still plenty of servers and players playing this game.

 

I know its old, and probably doesnt suit most of your tastes in games, but in my opinion, as far as fun shooters go, dfbhd is still king. Its just so much fun. Im enjoying it very much. I enjoy it much more than any other shooter in recent memory. Theres something timeless about the game, its such a classic. just mindless,chaotic, fun. good old black hawk down.

 

anyway i saw the novalogic post, so i figured id throw in my 2 cents.

 

I dont think i played their f-22 sim though.

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You mentioned other things besides JDAMS and the like. I stand corrected, didn't know they can drop those. I'm hesitant to call the ability to drop a bomb out the window that can do practically all the guidance on its own if set up in advanced to be "air to ground", no matter how high, fast, or stealthy you are. I'd also be hesitant to consider the ability to launch a stinger from from the door of a C-130 to be "air to air".

 

I shall the remove this hesitation right now :D

In vietnam a UH-1 scored two air to air kills on a paier of An-2's ... it was a guy shooting an AK-47 from the cargo door.

 

 

Yes, I get it. I'm not dense, this is all semantics on my part. ;) If I install a bomb bay on a stock SR-71, is it now capable of air to ground because I can drop a JDAM from 80,000 feet? If I designate it the SR-71E, paint it a different color and add a second crew member to handle the bombs...what about then? If Manfred von Richthofen tosses a grenade out of his cockpit into the trenches below, is he now a bomber pilot? :smilewink:

 

By the way, GG, opinions can be stupid, foolish, idiotic, and based on poor understanding, but never "wrong". :P

Then you are wrong :P

And yes - that SR-71 would now have A2G capability - literally. So would the red baron ;)

The moment you have A2G munitions on board you have A2G capability, regardless of how smart your weapon is.

 

I mean we could extend this backwards and say a dumb bomb isn't really A2G unless you eyeball the aim ;)

In which case of course, the red baron with his hand grenade would have the one and TRUE A2G capability! ;)

 

At the same time, you might now call BVR as 'not real Air to Air' because you throw an ARH out and it 'does it all' for you. This is the exact same evolution in A2G with JDAMs and SDBs, and those things do a whole lot more than just fly to a GPS coordinate.

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RedTiger, you re confusing capabilities with purpose. MiG-29 is a A2G capable fighter. Su-39 is an A2A capable attack plane (due to R-77 launch capability). So goes for F-22 - the task of the plane is air superiority, the capabilities of the plane are somewhat bigger.

And no, grenade thrown by a pilot does not give the plane A2G - unless grenades are hang under wings and dropped by a button press ;)

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I'm sorry but I must disagree - grenade-tossing was effectively used against enemy troops, which qualifies as A2G. Naturally the effect was nowhere near as big or accurate as bombing! ;)

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If I designate it the SR-71E' date=' paint it a different color and add a second crew member to handle the bombs...[/quote']

 

Wasn't that a two-seater already?

 

If Manfred von Richthofen tosses a grenade out of his cockpit into the trenches below' date=' is he now a bomber pilot?[/quote']

 

Manfred didn't do it personally afaik, but what you just indicated is exactly how the "bomber" was born. ;)

 

Though of course, how to classify a plane today differs from how it was done back then, but it's one of those fun facts that are hilarious to watch old videos of. But as has been said, you don't have to be a "bomber" or "attack" aircraft to be A2G "capable".

 

Are trying to tell me I should buy it?

 

Well, I had awesome fun with it when it was released way back, but if you own LockOn there's really no point getting it unless you feel it's cheap enough to get just for the F-22.

 

Grenade tossing is the capability of pilot' date=' not craft[/quote']

 

The aircraft has to be constructed in a way as to allow the crewman to throw grenades or mortar shells out of the cockpit. This allowance is a construction question, not a pilot question. All pilots can throw grenades - hell, I can too :P - but if there's a windshield, wingstruts or all kinds of other stuff to cause the grenade to stay in the cockpit then the aircraft is not grenade-throwing-capable. :P

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