Utilizing Bombs on Black Shark-Tracks?

[enigma6584]

Does anyone have any tracks of the proper usage and implementation of free fall bombs from the Black Shark? Been trying to practice myself using this ordinance but having a hard time.

 

Any help would be most appreciated.

[dooom]

Hi!

 

I made a mission to practise exactly this. It's not complicated at all - only made to indulge my need to seek purpose in life :music_whistling:.

 

See attachment below. 200 points available for full success - minor success if the 10 insurgents are all killed. You have 4 FAB-500 so it should be easy... you'd think.

 

 

Basically I understand the process to be as follows:

1. Ensure your FAB 250/500 are selected on the ballistics dial (Back right panel)
   
   • #7 for FAB 250
     
   • #8 for FAB 500
     

[*]Set Weapons to "Auto" on Weapons status control panel.

[*]Line up really really early and fly towards target. Stay neatly trimmed. A trick I found useful was this:

• lock onto target with schkval. While in autohover, use "turn to target' on K-041 panel to align / trim yourself for ingress. release hover and head toward target
  
• pay attention to minimum altitude for your ordinance... for FAB you have to be quite high - "c" will indicate safe release alt.
  

[*]Choose your targeting method on your K-041 panel.

• Autotracking: Keeps Schkval pointed at intended impact point. Just line up the reticles and release when aligned.
  
• Gunsight mode: Schkval will dynamically show the impact point in the Schkval screen. Basically, when you see the target pass through the screen you release - it reminds me of the old WWII bombsights...
  

[*]Rain hell.

I still am absolutely horrible at this. i think i understand the process / theory but I really have trouble ensuring a neat, clean heading as i ingress for drop.

 

I'd love to see some tracks from the pros on the mission below.

[slug88]

Hi!

 

[*]Ensure your FAB 250/500 are selected on the ballistics dial (Back right panel)

[*]#7 for FAB 250

[*]#8 for FAB 500

 

Where did you find this info? Everything I've seen and read (including Wag's Producers Note feature on utilizing dumb bombs in the KA-50) indicates that there is no setting the ballistic computer for bombs, and that the KA-50 is not capable of calculating an impact point for bombs.

 

In fact, I just checked the updated pilot's manual, and it concurs:

 

"The helicopter‟s weapon system does not have impact or release point calculation release modes. You must calculate the release point manually. The switches on the Weapon Status and Control panel do not affect bomb release." (pg 401/11-13)

 

In the Producer's Note on bombs, Wags demonstrates their employment by switching on the backup HUD projection and estimating the release point manually, as you would do in a WW2 fighter. In fact, he states that the procedure is essentially the same as it was in WW2 fighters. Clearly the KA-50 wasn't designed with bombing in mind.

 

EDIT: Here is the relevant Producer's Note:

Skip to 7:40.

Edited November 17, 2009 by slug88

[Huckle]

I removed the height restriction in one of the .lua files so I could bomb at low level and speed away. I noticed that a pipper travels along the ground when you're low enough, or have nose pointed down, like the one for rockets, but this one gives the impact point for bombs.

After a pleasant hour bombing the hell out of everything though, it becomes apparent that rockets are better for heli.

[STP Dragon]

Where did you find this info?

You can test this by load the bombs in the editor as default payload.

If you start the mission the UGM B switch is on the right number.

 

In my Version of the Sharkpit you can find a sign on the rear panel for the right setting.

 

(see the extract on the right window)

 

 

A mission to teach or to practice the bombing will be released in my DRAGONS TRAININGPACK maybe this week.

Edited November 17, 2009 by =STP= Dragon

[dooom]

Where did you find this info? Everything I've seen and read (including Wag's Producers Note feature on utilizing dumb bombs in the KA-50) indicates that there is no setting the ballistic computer for bombs, and that the KA-50 is not capable of calculating an impact point for bombs.

 

In fact, I just checked the updated pilot's manual, and it concurs:

 

"The helicopter‟s weapon system does not have impact or release point calculation release modes. You must calculate the release point manually. The switches on the Weapon Status and Control panel do not affect bomb release." (pg 401/11-13)

 

In the Producer's Note on bombs, Wags demonstrates their employment by switching on the backup HUD projection and estimating the release point manually, as you would do in a WW2 fighter. In fact, he states that the procedure is essentially the same as it was in WW2 fighters. Clearly the KA-50 wasn't designed with bombing in mind.

 

EDIT: Here is the relevant Producer's Note:

Skip to 7:40.

i notice he says to hold down the weapons release button prior to reaching target???

 

why would that be? couldnt he just pickle as normal?

[dooom]

ok ... I tried it both ways. See track below.

 

Method 1 - producers note.

• Using standby reticle i line up on the insurgent camp. FAB 500 requires an alt of almost 400m for auto release authorizaiton. It seemed everytime i pitched forward to set up a dive bomb visual approach, i went below the authorized alt and could not release (see first two passes.
  

Method 2 - gunsight mode.

• Switched to gunsight mode and maneuvered over soft targets at safe authorized alt.
  
• acidentally lost 2 500s on an mistaken drop. Waited for camp to pass into schkval (I WISH i could zoom out further) and pickled when i saw the trucks.
  
• all dead.
  

What i don't like:

• I am a stationary target... easy to hit if there were aa threats among insurgents.
  
• cant soom out far enough with schkval to make gunsight mode feasible.
  
• the standby reticle and visual may work but perhaps is not feasible for FAB 500 given the required release alt?
  

Can anyoen show me how to do this better?

 

PS... if you watch the landing it seems the pavement edge is a tad steeper than i would have thought. :doh:

[dooom]

Ok i updated teh mission to make it more interesting as i have been getting bored testing this. I still can't seem to target the 500's well. two basic problems: by the time the target passes through schkval, my actual release causes overshoot. second - using the reticle for a visual drop is exceedingly difficult with the fab500s as i quickly violate either the velocity or required altitude.

 

I even set up real nice TP points that i can use to line up on targets for a strong approach.

 

Can a vet please show me how it's done? I am now as interested as the original poster to see a good demonstration.

[Speed_2]

Well, you could always approach at like 4000 meters or higher to avoid most of the SAMs and AAA. I just tried out your method with the gunsight, I found it was highly inaccurate. From 4000m AGL, the bombs were consistently hitting like 100 meters in front of where the shkval was looking, even when I had the selector switch on 8. Down at 400m, the accuracy was alot better, but harder to find targets.

[dooom]

OK...

 

I'm done - dead reckoning is the only way- i just flew the mission three times with success.

 

• select fab500s
  
• ensure manual override for release.
  
• utilize Nav HUD if there is a TP point you are following
  
• utilize standby reticle if you are lining up without TP.
  
• ingress at 300m nose down
  
• dive toward target release when appropriate.
  
• pull into climb and bank away to avoid explosion.
  

Thanks to the original poster for making me obsess over this - i learned quite a bit.

:smartass:

[enigma6584]

Thanks to the original poster for making me obsess over this - i learned quite a bit.

 

:smartass:

 

LOL! You are very welcome.:lol: It has been a most interesting thread. Going to try out some stuff myself. Will post track(s) when finished. Would still like to see other's tracks on this.

 

As mentioned before, not much in manual on this and you got to figure Russia has a lot of old ordinance in storage so they are going to be using this when they can.

[Frederf]

There's a lot of goofy info going on here.

 

Yeah we don't understand it either. There are UGM-B dial positions corresponding with the FAB-250 and FAB-500 bomb munitions and yet we have also read that the computer doesn't help with bomb deployment in terms of aiming. It's a seeming inconsistency. Come people have said that the FCS will help you aim your FABs with a CCIP dot and yet we all know it shouldn't... we think. It's a big mystery.

 

You don't have to select manual WCS mode. The bombs will come off the rails in automatic or manual.

 

Flipping any switches on the K-041 panel is nonsense. Gunsight and all that are for the Shkval and for the 2A42 cannon. Messing with those should have nothing to do with bomb deployment.

 

The bomb will come off the rails when you press the weapons release trigger but I think you have to hold it down for a second to be sure, like how there is a delay with Vikhr missiles.