Gadroc's Pit Build

[Gadroc]

I have decided to walk the path of madness and build an actual KA-50 pit. I have already built a setup around touchscreens.

 

 

 

This works well with a couple of problems. One it was my first pit so I didn't understand how tall the seat needs to be. It is currently to high which makes using gauges on the touch screens a bit uncomfortable. I plan on lowering the seat this weekend to fix that.

 

Second is the G940 works well, but as is being articulated in other threads it currently has some challenges.

 

Third is Oakes, TriggerHappy69, BadCRC, PanelBuilders and many other peoples work here is just to damn cool looking. I gotta have one of my own.

 

The plan as it stands:

 

Use three screens for the center panel. 2 large one for ABRIS right panel and left panel gauges. 8" 4:3 screen for shkval. Main visuals will be at least a 28" lcd but may be a large format tv or projector (this is the biggest flex point in terms of cost so budget and wife will have a factor).

 

I will build a collective, cyclic and pedals.

 

I'm working with a friend to design and fabricate the panels. I don't have the proper skills to do it by hand (yet) nor do I really have the tools.

[Gadroc]

Cyclic the plan

 

I originally had my mind set on mimicking TriggerHappy69's amazing cyclic. So I found a few old Thrustmaster's on e-bay and started to think. I decided to base mine off the a Thrustmaster X-Fighter.

 

 

Then reality set in with a couple items:

 

1. I have little skills in working with Fiberglass or metal.
   
2. I am a perfectionist so craftsmanship issues due to #1 will make me crazy.
   
3. I actually like the feel of the B8 grip alot.
   
4. There are some complex angles for the cylcic top to make thumb access for shkval (which is a common activity) comfortable. It also has a potential for your thumb to constantly hit the under side when repositioning from the trim button.
   
5. MSFFB2 sticks go for a lot of money. I'm not spending $100+ for a used FFB joystick which may only last a few months, and I'm hearing spotty reports of proper FFB in Windows 7.
   
6. I'm impatient.
   

 

So I changed up my plans a bit. I will keep the B8 grip with a few modifications. I will also use the X-Fighter gimbals and just extend the joystick.

 

 

[BaD CrC]

Great to see a new pit building thread! All the best for your project Gadroc! Where did you get those cool little touch screens?

[CyBerkut]

Congrats on a good beginning Gadroc! :thumbup: Like yourself, my skills with wood and metal are minimal at best, so I sympathize. My tool collection has been pitiful, but I've been acquiring more in recent months as I try to move forward with a somewhat different approach.

 

Have fun, but make sure you keep those programming fingers safe! Our community will undoubtedly continue to benefit from software addons such as TouchPal. :)

[Gadroc]

Cyclic the execution

 

Thanks for the positive comments guys!

 

I didn't mention this in the first post, but I'm catching up posts on this forum. I'm several days in on the cyclic mod you can see my original thread over at the SCSimulations forum.

 

I disassembled the stick grip and found the dimensions of the hat are roughly equivalent of the ALPS micro stick that I'm liberating from the XBox 360 controller. In addition there seems to be plenty of room to add the two additional buttons.

 

I went on a shopping trip to RadioShack and was able to pick up a few micro buttons and a micro DPDT toggle switch (not pictured).

 

I had to build a cradle out of plasticard in order to accommodate the uneven packaging of the micro stick. In addition I had to remove the big bubble shroud around the hat of the micro stick so it would move properly inside the new housing.

 

For the toggle switch I had to remove a few support struts and the border bump around the existing button in order to properly mount it. Other wise everything fit in nicely.

 

[Gadroc]

Cyclic extension

 

Next up I put in place the extension. The X-Fighter springs are pretty strong so I am going to attempt to use it as a base, and just replace the pots.

 

The one problem with this is the grip mount is attached directly into the gimbal. I forgot to take a picture of this before cutting it off. I left about a 3/8" high nipple on the gimbal and just a small ridge on the grip mount below the fly wings which are housed in the grip itself.

 

I found that a 1/2" EMT coupling with a wire clamp on the end was a perfect fit for the joystick mount. There was a ring around the base of the mount which gives plenty of surface area for the epoxy.

 

For the base a 1/2" EMT Compression to 3/8" screw mounting fit pretty well. Although not as snug as I would have liked.

 

Unfortunately, as I suspected this joint is not strong. I used locktite 5 min epoxy last night on these and the grip mount is held well. The nipple on the gimbal is just not tight enough or tall enough to prevent the flex which is cracking the epoxy at the base, and you can feel a little bit of give. Not sure what I'm going to do yet. I have an X45 ripped apart in case this one doesn't work out.

 

While the epoxy was setting up last night I did get every thing wired up and tested. All buttons work as expected and the mini stick does properly register resistance on it's leads.

 

Here is a picture of the finished assembly. All said the bottom of the grip is @15" from the bottom of ground and the top of the stick is 21" tall.

 

@BadCRC How far up is the bottom of the shkval from the floor in your pit. Also how tall is your seat?

[CyBerkut]

As a possible alternative to the conduit fitting, you might look at pipe and/or tubing fittings. You might find the dimensions are just different enough to work in your favor. Plus, you can find them manufactured in various types of material (plastic, copper, brass, etc.) and in various thicknesses ("schedules"). Also, either plastic or copper could be slotted to allow squeezing the fitting down tighter upon the shaft by putting a hose clamp around it... or the slots could accomodate additional epoxy for a potentially stronger joint.

 

Also, keep in mind that you can make the shaft thicker with tape, or even a strip of copper wound around it. Maybe use fiberglass if you are so inclined...

[opformaster]

For my franken force fx I used 1/2" copper tubing, 45 degree fittings and epoxy to avoid any bending or hot work. I slotted the copper tubing to match the keys on the gimbal stud on the base. Then I used hose clamps to secure it in place. This has proved secure, easily adjustable and quick to breakdown for transport.

[BaD CrC]

Problem with that setup Gadroc is that small movements of your stick will trigger almost nothing on your pots as gears in the base do not demultiply enough for such a long stick. So precision will be quite bad when flying.

Well, at least that was my experience when I tried something like this with an old Thrustmaster (that became my collective now)

[Gadroc]

Cyclic Mark II

 

The X-Fighter gimbal system ended up a no go. There was noticeable wobble at the joint and the it was going to be a pain to replace the pots. So I disassembled the stick and began pondering over the X45. A trip to the hardware store and bike store and I had the necessary parts.

 

I took the opportunity to fix a few things. First I remembered to paint before assembly this time. I also cut down the stick and put on the wheel brake lever.

 

The stick grip now is 11" from the floor and top of the grip is 17". When sitting on an 8-9" pedestal it is a good height. This lessened the problem BadCRC articulated and that happens to be the height on TriggerHappy's drawings for the center pedestal.

 

I also was able to leave the existing electronics in for the X/Y axis so I could test. The old shark handled well aside from two minor problems. First none of the buttons where hooked up so I couldn't trim effectively. Second the pitch pot seems to be acting up as it's jittery at center and it travels faster in one direction. I believe the new pots and electronics will clear these issues up.

 

[DickDastardly]

Great start m8 -looking forward to seeing what else you come up with.

Cheers,

DD

[Gadroc]

Working Wheel Brake!

 

I got the wheel brake working today. A trip to my friendly hobby store (thanks Sean!), and I got the necessary linkages. I salvaged the pot and lever arm assembly from the Xbox 360. I trimmed away all the extra housing and added a spring for return and tension. Attached is a video of it in action. The video was taken before I added a strong spring and redid the cable so it doesn't catch once in a while.

 

 

I also hooked her back up and fly for a half hour or so after mapping trim to the throttle controls. It handles very well and I can't wait for the new electronics!

[CAT_101st]

I dont think DCS BS suports a axis for the brake you will have to band it to use a button command. One on my bogist complaints is the lack on axis to be assined to commands/ rotery switchs

[Sokol1_br]

Cat_101st

 

BS support brake in axis, see this pic in SimHq:

 

http://www.simhq.com/_air12/images/air_393a_005.jpg

 

"Wheel Brake".

 

:thumbup:

 

Sokol1_Br

[C6_Hellfrog]

in the config options you only have to assign a axis to the command, the same way you do for TrackIR or Joystick.

[Gadroc]

As others have said you do have a Wheel Brake axis. It does work as I currently have it assigned to the toe brake axis on my rudder pedals.

 

What I haven't figured out yet is how to do the lock on the brake. It looks like a mechanical latch on the pictures in the DCS manual. I need to sit down and figure out how to do something similar on mine.

[hannibal]

i had one of my extra axis throttle levers set to wheel brake..

 

comes in handy

 

i just hope you can lock that break handle. other wise you have to constanly grip the brake to engage while landed, and holding till you start/ restart, load fuel and or change weapons....

[Sokol1_br]

Gadroc,

 

See in this pictures of Ka050 stick front side, this small rotary lever:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=23274&d=1230931051

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=23273&d=1230931041

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=23272&d=1230931033

 

Lock for the brake lever?

 

Sokol1

[CAT_101st]

The brake axis is one I didn't care much about so I didn't look for it. I would like to have axis to be assined to the contrast, bright and bright on HMS/ night vision.

 

I don't need replys as this is just a bitch for me. thank you for being a good

listener ;)

[BaD CrC]

Gadroc,

 

See in this pictures of Ka050 stick front side, this small rotary lever:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=23274&d=1230931051

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=23273&d=1230931041

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=23272&d=1230931033

 

Lock for the brake lever?

 

Sokol1

 

Funny, the front panel of this Ka50 looks quite different from what we know. Like this standby attitude indicator below the ABRIS??:huh:

[m0jo]

Funny, the front panel of this Ka50 looks quite different from what we know. Like this standby attitude indicator below the ABRIS??:huh:

 

This is the KA-50 before the ABRIS was introduced, this is another KA-50 without the ABRIS :

[BaD CrC]

Absolutely brilliant picture with a nice point of view of the ejection handles and SHKVAL hood that I am trying to build. Couldn't ask for better.

Thanks M0jo.

[Gadroc]

The collective begins

 

Unfortunately the electronics have not arrived yet, but I do have a 40" Samsung on the way for external visuals!

 

I spent some time last night and today working on the collective and doing some modifications to the existing pit.

 

First here is the first prototype of the collective head.

 

The hat will select the weapons. The switch above it will be for the free turbine setting. The two small black buttons are the target size buttons, these will be replaced with a rocker switch when it gets here. The red button is the target lock and the switch above it is for shkval fov. There will be a route/descent mode switch to the far right once it gets here.

 

I have dropped the search light slew hat. I really wanted full functionality, but I have a couple restrictions. First I want to keep it to only 15 wires between collective and control box for the electronics. This will allow me to use an off the shelf cable to connect them. Second is I'm trying to keep the box off the shelf as well. Putting two hats on the box I have makes it to cramped for the rest of the components. Ergonomically any bigger and I'll have to start doing something to wrap the head around so you can still reach all the controls. Also I rarely have the search light on while I'm shooting at things :)

 

The current plan is to mount the against a modified X45 throttle base. It seems it will give enough tension to hold the collective in place. I have stripped it down and I just need to modify the arms to mount the 1/2" EMT conduit. I may switch to 3/4" OD copper pipe as it will fit closer to the existing arm.

 

I did drop another 2 inches off my seat and tubs today. This puts my seat at 10" from floor to seat cushion top. Now my eyes are level with the bottom of the exterior view monitor. I also mounted my transducer under the seat and got it spliced into the subwoofer output. My daughter put it best "wow that's awesome you can feel the cannon in the seat!".

[Gadroc]

Got the LCD screen for my primary display setup today. I had to drop the stand by 6" to get the right height. I also move the display back about a foot. This give a nice feeling of depth and allows some refocus of your eyes from the touch screens to the main visuals.

 

I'm working on the software side to make all three touch screens fully usable and include gauges. The area surrounding the ABRIS and Shkval will have addition virtual panels on them. Intention is to have some "tabs" and have all switches available on them.

 

 

[Gadroc]

I got the new switches and finished off the collective head today. I'm pretty happy with how it's turned out. Used the metal face plate and move one of the switches around. I still need to wire it up, but first I'm going to have to rethink the mechanism. The collective head, grip and brake lever ended up to be to much. The tension on the stick only held the collective up for a few minutes... now it slowly slips down.

 

 

 

 

I'm catching a cold, hopefully I'll feel well enough tomorrow to go get some parts to help the collective slipping issue.