How does Black Shark Engine render Multi card video

[robinhood]

Hi All,

 

I have done a lot of testing lately with various ATI cards and I'm trying to get the most out of 6 Monitors and three video cards.

 

Below are the images of my Layout i have been testing and i have come to some conclusions and want to know if I'm correct as the next move is an expensive one.

 

I have already posted most of my tests and info here http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=45369&page=3

 

I reached the conclusion that running a 5870 and 5770 both using eyefinity on two desktops or two singles produced about the same frame rate. And when i stretched this over 6 monitors 5760x3300 i was at around 8-12 FR in cockpit mode which sucked but at 12 was at least playable.

 

So to save a little money (i would like to get a Track IR) and to see if I could use cross fire i replaced the 5870 with a second 5770 as i didn't think there would be much of a difference overall.

 

Bad move.

 

My frame rate for the for dual monitor in eyefinity is still the same as with the 5870 and 5770 tests I did around 30 FPS single camera and 24 FPS for 3 camera.

 

The difference occurs when i go to my full resolution of 5760x3300 i now only get around 7 FPS, which renders the game unplayable.

 

So to my question, and I'm assuming this will pop up more and more with the drop in both monitor prices and Video hardware.

 

How does Black Shark render or process video across multiple cards and monitors.

 

a. Does it use the primary card to process all data and simply use the second and third card to handle distribution to the monitors.

 

b. Is it a week link issue where the slowest card slows the whole thing down.

 

c. Does the orientation of the screens (in may case some are mapped Portrait) play any role at all.

 

If my assumptions are correct it seems the most powerful or primary card does the processing. In which case it makes more sense to buy a honking card like the 5970 and the other three can be smaller cards as long as they are not two small.

 

Any one got any suggestions or know exactly what the best combination would be.

 

Robin

[robinhood]

[G3]

nothing useful to offer but

wow, looking good, hope you get it to a playable fps.

[33rd_bratpfanne.]

Supposed i use Eyefinity with 3 Monitors, I would like to know if it is possible to get an "angled" view on the left and right monitor or is it just distorted as if you zoom further out?

 

Information would be very much appreciated.

 

S~

 

Brati

[CyBerkut]

robinhood, you have to run DCS:BS in windowed mode to accomplish getting that displayed cockpit up above, correct?

 

I think you may be pretty much hosed (at least for the time being), given your disparate collection of monitor sizes. You may still be able to gain some minor improvement via settings tweaks, but I wouldn't expect anything truly significant.

 

NOTE: I am NOT an authority on ATI / Eyefinity. I could be wrong about something(s). If so, I apologize, and will happily accept correction(s).

 

Some potentially useful links:

 

ATI's web site:

http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/eyefinity/Pages/eyefinity.aspx

ATI's Eyefinity tech brief:

http://www.amd.com/us/Documents/ATI_Eyefinity_Technology_Brief.pdf

A good review of ATI cards, etc.:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3679&p=1

 

You'll notice in the review (3rd link) that the HD 5970 has quite a bit more capability than the 5870 or 5850 offerings. As of that writing, the HD 5970 is the only card that ATI has enabled Crossfire Eyefinity support for in the drivers. Based on that, my *guess* would be that you would see some improvement by going to a 5970 as the primary card. It should be emphasized, I don't KNOW that is the case.

 

One of the things that may be contributing to confusion, or at least less clarity, is terminology. We should keep in mind that ATI uses the term Eyefinity to essentially name the technology, not a particular mode of operation. In ATI's own words:

"ATI Eyefinity is defined as two or more display outputs operating simultaneously and independently from each other. Support is available for Duplicated (Clone) and Extended multiple monitor modes, with new support for the capability to group displays into a massive single large surface spanning across multiple displays for use with your desktop workspace, video playback, with support for both windowed and full screen 3D applications."

 

Eyefinity has the capability to run monitors in "Display Groups" and/or as "Extended". My understanding is that to run multiple monitors in a "Display Group", they must be the same resolution, and have the same orientation. I get the impression that you are running with all 6 monitors as "Extended".

If you had 6 (same resolution) monitors with DisplayPort connections, running off of one of the (not yet released) 6 DisplayPort version cards, you could theoretically run DCS:BS in full screen mode spread across those displays in a 3 across, 2 vertical array, and probably get acceptable frame rates.

 

As you have discovered, DisplayPort figures prominently in ATI's development of Eyefinity. I don't know how promising an outlook you have with trying to go the three card route with non-DisplayPort monitors.

 

By the way, have you looked at SoftTH at all?

[JG14_Smil]

Hello,

 

That is a very cool looking setup! Sorry I can't help much with your questions and I look forward to seeing what you learn about it. I do note that running the D3DOverrider will help smooth my fps while in multi monitor, though the vsync will no longer work while in the windowed mode.

 

Running a TIR with that setup will only make the fps seem even worse. I personally get uncomfortable at 20 fps, so all I can do at this time is run my abris and shkval on monitor 2 with a nice 25-30 fps minimum.

[davek1979]

I always thought what's so cool about multimonitor setups that gets people on top... Sorry for that, I know the author has probably invested considerable amount of resources and time into it, but to me it looks like a mess.

Why oh why would I settle for a so-so image resembling a broken mirror if I can have it all at once on one screen ? No mess, no confusion, no repeating or wrongly scaled parts of the original render...

Unless there's some kind of 1 (read ONE) projector, that gets the image at least hemispherical, I consider these setups a hindrance to proper immersion rather than the opposite.

[CyBerkut]

Well, proper immersion can mean different things to different folks. Other folks might put more emphasis on having higher resolution to make reading labels easier. Others might make the bottom 3 screens touchscreens and find that reaching to the left and right to flip switches located closer to where they would be in relation to the seat to be more immersive.

 

As for the mess, I imagine his goal is to clear up at least some of the faults you listed (ie. "repeating or wrongly scaled parts").

 

As for hemispherical projection, here is another possible way to go:

http://www.fighterops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7965

 

To each his own.

[robinhood]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks CyBerkut for the info, the 5970 does look really cool and seems to perduce great stats at high resolution and OC. I will pick one up this weekend and see what can be done.

 

The support for FC while using Eyefinity will obviously help, we will see what becomes of it i will cirtainly post any results.

 

Davek1979 as CyBerkut mentioned i think imersion and what we derive from sim experience is a very unique and personal thing. For me and i would assume im not alone its pushing the envelope in several ways and depends on the day:

 

There are days when i feel like manually going through the start up sequence cruising around and finding out what the sim can do and getting as close as I can to "flying a Heli" and for that having the cockpit in view even at the cost of FR is acceptable. Obvisouly not to low.,.,.,.,.

 

There are also days when i feel like flying 60 ft of the ground flat out and kicking some ass and for that FR and less or more focussed monitors is definitlely the way to go.

 

And i think there is a need to constantly push the envelope expecially in the multi monitor area. One of the reasons BS is so cool is because of its so tweakability. Also multi monitor setups will become more and mroe common fopr other reasons and if youve got it why not.

 

JG14_Smil i have been playing/building with freetrack so i will see this weekend what kind of performance hit it takes. Unfortunatly for now i do not live in the city i work in so weekends are the only time i get to use my system right now :(

 

Well guys thanks for the feedback and i will deffiniatly keep you posted.

[robinhood]

P.S. if anyone else has any places to piont me as to FR ernhancements let me know.

 

Also I do have a 720P projector and 1024x768 projector i find there is to much loss.

 

Robin

[CyBerkut]

robinhood, what camera are you using with FreeTrack? A USB webcam, a Wiimote, or ???

 

A USB webcam will impose a processing load on your CPU. The Wiimote processing load is zero, or VERY close to it... with the tradeoff of having to mess with Bluetooth, and either changing batteries or making an alternate arrangement. You can search on older posts I have made in other threads for more detailed coverage of that subject.

[robinhood]

Good to know, I actually just bought a web cam a couple of days ago, for testing i used my laptop that has a cam built in. I will see if i can get my hands on a WIImote and read through your threads.

 

Anyone in perticular i should focus on ?

[CyBerkut]

In this thread:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=37979&highlight=FreeTrack+Wiimote

 

This post in particular:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=633913&postcount=4

 

Note: To update information about myself in the above post. I have purchased a TrackIR 5. It appears to work well, but I haven't really spent much time with it, or actually flying DCS:BS, as I'm currently holding off until I get a new gaming desktop, and some other things done.

 

In that same thread, Sharkster64 posts multiple times about another alternative, Cachya. It uses a webcam, and instead of building a point model, it uses a paper triangle target that you can print out. One downside is that you will need to be playing with enough ambient light in your room for the camera to discern the target. You still have the CPU load of using a USB webcam, but it is reported that you can run Cachya on a different machine over your LAN, which would take the processing load off of your main gaming/siom machine.

 

I haven't stayed up to date on the latest and greatest with FreeTrack. When I bought the TIR 5, the only method to get roughly comparable tracking FPS with the current FT was to use a Wiimote as the camera. Earlier versions of FT would work with earlier TIR cameras, but then Natural Point asked them to quit including TIR support in future versions of FT. There was some talk over in the FT forums about possibly using some camera for the Sony PS3, but I never followed up to see if somebody got that working.

 

In a different thread, 'Winder made this informative post:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=682547&postcount=28

 

Another post I made later, which better reflects my growing weariness with the Bluetooth startup routine, etc.:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=649570&postcount=4

 

Hope that helps you in some way. :)

[robinhood]

I didn't spring for the WiiMote yet but I'm going to give it a shot.

 

I did get the camera working with FreeTrack with very cool results. I picked up a half dozen IR LEDs and sacrificed one of my BCaps :) I don't even see that much of a FR slow down but that could be because things couldn't get much worse :)

 

So far im around 12 to 15 FPS not great but still squeezing the last little bit of juice :)

 

Robin