davek1979 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I have a simple question with (probably) a complicated answer. We all experience these moments in BS, when we loose a rotor blade, the heli starts to shake like hell, when we get hit into a vital part of the machine, when there's a lot of damage, but not yet ejection-worthy, but Betty apocalyptically starts screaming "ATAKA, ATAKA!"... The question is, for a RL military pilot, what constitutes the transgression of the point that I like to call "ejection threshold" ? I can only imagine the complexity of the answer, but the interesting part for me would be the calculation between the cost of the machine, cost of the pilots life and possible consequences of ejection. I hope I made myself clear enough. :-) ...well someone has to move the mud!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force_Feedback Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Well, if a safe landing is very difficult or impossible, or there is not enough time to safely land the aircraft, then ejection is recommended. The Su-27's Betty even says when a fault is unrecoverable, for example when the hydraulics for the flight controls fail, she points out the flight envelope limitations (speed under 800 kph, Angle of attack no more than 10 degrees, or something like that, forgot the exact numbers), and promptly follows with "If no control authority persists within the limitations: eject" The voice informator on the Mig-AT for example, in that famous 'no tail surface landing' video, Betty also says: "Ship 81 (or so, may not be 81), failure of FCS, end the assignment (ie: eject)" The Ataka voice message in the Ka-50 means that some tank is using the laser to guide a projectile your way, that's why it says Ataka :P Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davek1979 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 The Ataka voice message in the Ka-50 means that some tank is using the laser to guide a projectile your way, that's why it says Ataka :P Thank you man, however that might sound, I knew this. I hoped that everyone would understand I tried to describe the situation as completely terrible and that's why I used this instance. But thanx for the rest of your reply. ...well someone has to move the mud!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Threshold? The Moment of Enlightenment when you realise that the Flight Suite you are currently Inhabiting is going to Wing it's way to the Laundromat faster than a Fly on Crack! The Base Instinct for Survival......Wins every Time. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davek1979 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 The Base Instinct for Survival......Wins every Time. Hmmm, that's an opinion of virtual or RL pilot ? Or both ? Because as I see it, if my left engine dies and right engine is coughing because of a well-placed bullet, with AA enemies scattered somewhere around me, my survival instinct tells me to eject. When I do it, I might land on enemy ground and go MIA or KIA. When I do that on friendly ground, someone might start questioning why did I not try harder to bring that multi-million machine back home. I don't know, maybe if the pilot tells the military court that he followed his survival instincts, they will pardon him and give him a kiss and a new toy, but somehow I'm a bit uneasy about that. ...well someone has to move the mud!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekkinho Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I'd say it's at 0ft AGL! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I do not think any pilot would be charge with any crime because he ejected from a damaged aircraft in combat in RL. He may go thru an investigation, combat or not, to find out what happened. The investigation would be more toward finding out what was the cause of the accident, not so much to blame the pilot. I think most pilots ( and I'm guessing here of course) will eject when they believe they can not save the aircraft. I seen many videos (specially USN aircraft videos) where the pilots ejected and you see the aircraft fly away. Could the pilots save the aircraft? Maybe, but in that situation, when a pilot may feel his live is in danger, who can tell him:"You should have stayed in the aircraft". The only game I seen this is on falcon (getting court martial after ejection), but for DCS just eject if the bird is damaged. To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czvEDNdyFBU&feature=related To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekkinho Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czvEDNdyFBU&feature=related That's a real bummer! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namenlos Ein Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 About rocket-parachute system K-37 (RPS К37-800): http://www.zvezda-npp.ru/engl/k37.html http://www.ejectionsite.com/k37seat.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikoyan Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I saw a video of the su-27 during a dogfight and betty says something that we don't have in lock on, I wonder what is the meaning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9-gPXmDXCM arroind 1:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force_Feedback Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I saw a video of the su-27 during a dogfight and betty says something that we don't have in lock on, I wonder what is the meaning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9-gPXmDXCM arroind 1:20 "I am, 'bort' (ship number) zero-two, threshold of angle of attack" ---> nothing fancy, just that the real Betty also says which plane number the warning is coming from. Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaman Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czvEDNdyFBU&feature=related 04 July, 1989. From the Soviet airbase near Kolobzreg at the seashore of the Baltic Sea in Poland a MiG-23 took off for a training flight. After the take off the pilot, Colonel Skurigin realised that the afterburner of his plane stopped and the power of the engine begun to fall. The altitude at this time was about 130-150 m and the pilot believed that the descending aircraft is unable to fly any longer. Without turning the engine off the pilot ejected and landed safely with his parachute. To the great astonishment of the ground crew the position of the plane fixed and it flew away to the West. The autopilot kept the last direction of the plane. The aircraft was not armed but the ammunition for the 23 mm machine gun was onboard. The phantom plane left the airspace of the former East Germany and violated the West German airspace where it was intercepted and escorted a pair of American F-15s. As the F-15s didn't get permission to fire they let the aircraft flew away. France also alerted its Mirage fighters being in readiness with permission to fire if the phantom plane was dangerous for French built-up areas. Eventually it was unnecessary because after some 900 km the MiG-23 ran out of fuel and crashed in the area of Kortrijk city in Belgium ( NW of Belgium ). A house was ruined due to the crash and a 18 years old young man was buried under the ruins and died. 51PVO Founding member (DEC2007-) 100KIAP Founding member (DEC2018-) :: Shaman aka [100☭] Shamansky tail# 44 or 444 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 100KIAP Regiment Early Warning & Control officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force_Feedback Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 There was also in incident with a Harrier, after a birdstrike the engine spooled down, the pilot ejected, and the rocket flame (Martin Baker seats have two nozzlesangles inwards) cleared the bird remains, so the plane flew on pilotless until it ran out of fuel. http://www.ejectorseats.co.uk/ejection_from_a_harrier.htm Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey45 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 It's easier to replace a plane then the pilot... The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liotczik Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 That's a real bummer! I can only speculate, that lightening the aircraft by two crewmembers and two seats, as well as shift in the center of gravity to the tail was the cause of plane's recovery. It could have been a totally different story, if they hadn't ejected. As for the sims, I eject/bail out in the following cases: - any fire that can't be quickly extinguished by any means and I suspect that the crate can/will explode sooner or later - severe loss of control that makes impossible to stay in the air - imminent and unavoidable impact into terrain If aircraft is damaged to the point, that it can bring me home, but it can't guarantee safe landing, I prefer ejecting near my own airbase/carrier than risking landing. That means also, that I wouldn't be taking my chances trying stunts like, for example, carrier landing in zero visibility on rough seas. In short - if it can't bring me down to a full stop, while still in one piece - eject. And I think it's pretty much the same for RL. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Originally Posted by Death-17 Any yahoo can fly fixed, it takes skill to fly rotor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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