How exactly do I stabilize my airspeed?

[Chopper_Pork]

Hi all

 

Been flying this sim for some weeks now and I think I'm doing fairly well. I have also been searching in the 488 pages on this issue but haven't been able to come up with a solution.

Let's say whenever I want to cruise to my next steeringpoint with a steady velocity of 255 km/h, I find myself "fighting" with the choppers pitch and collective input trying to keep my airspeed constant. There exactly lies my problem. Am I maybe not trimming precise enough (maybe too many/few degrees on the pitch ladder)?

Is there a possibility on how to determine whether my helo is going to hold it's airspeed or it's going to bee to slow/overshoot (thinking maybe of AOA indicators but haven't been able to figure it out until now)?

Or is it kind of trial and error of finding the right balance between pitch and collective? :helpsmilie:

 

I think it's quite essential being able to fly at constant speeds and altitudes (formation flying comes to my mind). Maybe you more expierienced Chopper heads will come up with some useful advice.

Also I'm not quite sure if I the words written above make sense to native speakers :music_whistling:. If there are questions, just ask. English is not my native language.

 

 

 

Regards Chopper Pork

[My Fing ID]

I can't remember the command but if you put your copter on route mode or whatever it's called (far right switch on the collective) you can set your speed by nosing down, finding the speed you want, and trimming. There's probably a better way but that's what I usually do. Of course it only works if you're moving to an point on the whatever-9000, that mess of buttons to your right.

[EtherealN]

Of course it only works if you're moving to an point on the whatever-9000, that mess of buttons to your right.

 

PVI-800. :)

[Frederf]

The airspeed is only held in the ROUTE mode of the ROUTE-DESCENT switch. Outside of ROUTE mode the holds are attitude in nature. Trim button captures desired airspeed in that case.

 

Of course it will attempt to keep that airspeed if it can. Trying to keep 0 kmph in a 40 degree dive or 300 kmph in a climb... AP can't help you there.

[dsobbe]

Chopper Pork,

 

"You can only trim for a given airspeed". First, obtain the forward pitch angle and power (throttle) setting to reach the desired airspeed. Then, trim to hold that angle. It's easiest to do this in level flight. With the trim set you can then climb or descend at the trimmed airspeed by changing just the power setting.

[Frederf]

Not entirely true, with the ROUTE logic on the AP will (attempt to) hold a specific airspeed.

[astrospud]

I have particular trouble holding a stable formation with other flyers (MP). Principally, I fix my view on the lead aircraft and with micro adjustments, try to maintain a good pattern. Not always successful, and tiring as all hell, as I have to concentrate on the lead 100% of the time. Can be up to 10 minutes between w/p!! There has to be an easier way....

[Chopper_Pork]

First of all thanks for your advice. I really apreciate that.

Basically you try to encourage me to use the route mode. I have to admit I never used it before.

I thought the route mode only works with existing steeringpoints saved to the PVI-800. So what do I do if I don't have any prestored flightpaths, say in a simple freeflight mission?

 

"You can only trim for a given airspeed". First, obtain the forward pitch angle and power (throttle) setting to reach the desired airspeed. Then, trim to hold that angle. It's easiest to do this in level flight. With the trim set you can then climb or descend at the trimmed airspeed by changing just the power setting.

 

This Is exactly what I'm trying to do. Say my given airspeed of 255 km/h is still valid as mentioned in my first post. I let my aircraft accelerate until I reach my desired speed and trim. As far as I have expierienced so far the aircraft keeps increasing it's airspeed. Adjusting collective doesn't seem to help either except changing altitude. Is there some kind of sweet spot on the pitch ladder so the helo doesn't get faster or slower?

Maybe I'm better off to create a track so people can see what I'm doing wrong :(

 

I have particular trouble holding a stable formation with other flyers (MP). Principally, I fix my view on the lead aircraft and with micro adjustments, try to maintain a good pattern. Not always successful, and tiring as all hell, as I have to concentrate on the lead 100% of the time. Can be up to 10 minutes between w/p!! There has to be an easier way....

 

Seems like I'm not the only person with difficulties. I think one key would be sufficient communication between the leader and his wingmen (speed, heading etc.).

 

Best regards Chopper Pork

[Distiler]

Accelerate, trim and press "r" to activate autopilot between PVI waypoints, it will also maintain speed. In free flight (without PVI) I've never tried to press "r" but it's worth the try, if it doesen't work you need to find the sweetspot and do microadjustements.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Distiler

[Chopper_Pork]

Accelerate, trim and press "r" to activate autopilot between PVI waypoints, it will also maintain speed. In free flight (without PVI) I've never tried to press "r" but it's worth the try, if it doesen't work you need to find the sweetspot and do microadjustements.

 

Thanks alot! I just tested the route switch on the collective and it works great without even having waypoints stored to the PVI.

I've always thought the route mode was there to fly automatically a predefined flightpath but it seems to be working fine in free flight mode. I looked it up in the manual and it's written the page before the autohover is explained.

 

Greetings Chopper Pork

[Celo63]

When flying manually in cruise, speed is controlled with the cyclic (by adjusting nose pitch angle - also referred to as "attitude") and altitude is controlled with the collective.

 

Essentially, "lead" with the cyclic to set or adjust your airspeed and "follow" with the collective to set or adjust your altitude. (Both inputs are usually simultaneous in fact, but I'm sure you'll know what I mean by this description.)

 

Once established at cruising speed, you can change altitude using only collective whilst maintaining your airspeed. As long as you keep the nose pitch angle you will keep your speed. If you pull full collective for rapid climb however, you will lose some airspeed.

 

I hope that helps. Happy hunting.

[GGTharos]

And to add to that, you can pretty much forget about stabilizing anything for formation flight - formation flight requires constant input.

[astrospud]

And to add to that, you can pretty much forget about stabilizing anything for formation flight - formation flight requires constant input.

 

Rgr.

I was thinking this, as I have only flown a few formations and I'm finding my speed is moving around a bit, between 5 and 10km/h variance. This is a rough estimate, but it gives you the idea that, although I can keep formation most times, my view is locked on the lead ship and not on my instruments.

[Frederf]

route switch on the collective and it works great without even having waypoints stored to the PVI.

 

"Route Without Task" is very helpful.

 

I have particular trouble holding a stable formation with other flyers (MP). Principally, I fix my view on the lead aircraft and with micro adjustments, try to maintain a good pattern. Not always successful, and tiring as all hell, as I have to concentrate on the lead 100% of the time. Can be up to 10 minutes between w/p!! There has to be an easier way....

 

Formation flying is hard! Best help is:

 

• Lead consistent, very stable altitude, speed, heading
  
• Agree what is "normal" speed, altitude before takeoff
  
• Easy formation. Why not trail en route? Much easier than combat spread for 55 minutes.
  

Trying to follow someone who is not "cooperating" is very difficult and tiring. You only have eyes to see if formation is working instead of "Oh I am 185 kmph so I will slowly overtake formation which is going 170 kmph as agreed" type knowledge.

 

As far as I have experienced so far the aircraft keeps increasing it's airspeed. Adjusting collective doesn't seem to help either except changing altitude. Is there some kind of sweet spot on the pitch ladder so the helo doesn't get faster or slower?

 

Yes, pitch = airspeed. For 50 kmph there is a pitch, for 100 kmph there is a pitch, for 150 kmph there is a pitch. If you have 200 kmph level flight stable and you reduce collective only... helicopter will automatically descend at 200 kmph: same speed but just lose altitude. This is if you touch no other controls. This is how ROUTE controls airspeed, by changing pitch. If ROUTE cannot maintain airspeed (runaway fast or slow) it is because ROUTE cannot change pitch enough (20% authority).

[GGTharos]

Are you kidding? Combat-spread is super-easy and flexible. Anything that's equivalent to route or fingertip is much harder :P

[Frederf]

Me hopes them's sarcasm.

[Total]

Ensure your climb/descent gauge is on 0, you're in level flight (using the SAI), and keep your collective constant. When trimmed in, you can let go of the stick and maintain course and speed.

[nemises]

so, dont forget , the other formation flying you se in game is pretty much AI ... it is not humanly possible (wihtout hunders of hours of practise) to be that accurate.

 

IRL, of course, pilots HAVE those hunders of hours, whereas we , as gamers, have maybe only a small portion o that time, and very little of it concentrating on "logistical" flying (ie. we mostly want to be out blowing stuff up).

 

It IS worth your time though, if you are serious about playing in MP in both Shark and Lockon (an an other sim!) to DEDICATE some time into formation flight practise.

 

Things to remember are (and has been stated above by other folks!)

- The lead pilot MUST be steady and consistant .. any changes lead makes are AMPLIFIED as they go down the line...

- IMHO allmost all formation flying for combat should be non verbal ... spped, altitude and heading are all implied by leads speed, altitude and heading...as long as lead isnt jerking the stick around, the rest of the flight should be able to match it.

- flying as wing can take 100% of your concentration .... fly with your eyes out of the cockpit and use visual clues on you lead's airframe to judge if you are accelerating, decelrating, decending etc as relates to him...dont worry about what your speed and altitude are on your guages...thats leads problem.

 

Anyway, sorry, just my 2c ... flying in MP situtations is what makes these games for me...

[GGTharos]

so, dont forget , the other formation flying you se in game is pretty much AI ... it is not humanly possible (wihtout hunders of hours of practise) to be that accurate.

 

Try five ... :D

But your equipment makes a difference too. Spiky stick = crappy formation. Of course all this presumes you can actually fly you vAircraft and you are in control of it. Most people can't even hold speed, altitude and g in a simple turn. If you can't do that simple thing, it will not be a surprise that you can't do formation. Most people are just yank-and-bank, high-g's to do everything.

[astrospud]

Well GG, I am certain you would be the first to affirm that it does take time.

Formation is helping me steer away from the "yank and bank", as you put it, but it is a learnt process. It's not simple, by any means.

I always try to remember where I came from when I gather any amount of experience.

BTW, what do you mean by "spiky stick"? Are you talking cheap joystick with poor centering?

[Frederf]

A spikey stick means the values jump around over time. If you had a graph of input over time they would show up as physical spikes, extreme and brief changes in output value. Cheap joystick yes, but more about being smooth than centered.

[GGTharos]

Well GG, I am certain you would be the first to affirm that it does take time.

 

Yes it does, but if you are at least aware of correct technique, it won't take horribly long. It's just a matter of practice.

 

Formation is helping me steer away from the "yank and bank", as you put it, but it is a learnt process. It's not simple, by any means.

I always try to remember where I came from when I gather any amount of experience.

 

Excellent! :D

 

BTW, what do you mean by "spiky stick"? Are you talking cheap joystick with poor centering?

 

Pretty much what Frederf said. When you move the stick, you get input that you would not normally associate with your movement.