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Is there any work being done on DCS BS?


H-street
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I noticed a new developement update

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=49282

 

Seems like the DCS A10C is going to be a late 2010/early 2011 product, so i guess my question is apart from FC 2.0 or the DCS A10C has BS been put into a "wait for A10C" holding state?

 

the developer update seems to put FC2.0 in a 4-5 month time until release/completion (BS took 7 months to localize and release/complete)

 

And this is fine but I just wanted to get an idea of timeline and expectations.

 

when i bought BS the line was sortof a , 9 months after the NA release you'll see A10C (which would have put it this month) and then 9 months after that for each addon. FC2.0 obviously has changed this.

 

Are there any plans to start doing production journals (the training videos for BS where awesome before release) or anything like that prior to the FC2.0 being done?

 

Are there any addons planned for BS in the interim?

 

i've browsed a few of the mods going on but the majority seem to be skins/texture type modifications (seems a map or 2 might be in the works)

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eems like the DCS A10C is going to be a late 2010/early 2011 product, so i guess my question is apart from FC 2.0 or the DCS A10C has BS been put into a "wait for A10C" holding state?

 

DCS:BS and DCS:Warthog are standalone products. They will hopefully be compatible. As for release date - there is none set, so remember that those are your own speculations. ;)

 

And this is fine but I just wanted to get an idea of timeline and expectations.

 

Whenever ED releases a statement that says "we hope to do X, Y around time Z", people always fail to understand what words like "hope", "intend" etcetera mean, and start flame threads about being lied to or let down and so on. So to keep things more peaceful, ED only releases information that it is reasonably certain is solid. Unfortunately, this means a timeline is difficult.

 

when i bought BS the line was sortof a , 9 months after the NA release you'll see A10C (which would have put it this month) and then 9 months after that for each addon. FC2.0 obviously has changed this.

 

A lot of things changed that, including military contracts and such projects. Remember though that you are now doing a similar thing to what I mentioned earlier: AFAIK ED didn't say "there will definitely be 9 months between releases", they said that they hope to make it so. Obviously, military contracts tend to be on a much rougher deadline (and might even have penalties if the deadlines are broken), so they can do all kinds of fun stuff to other projects.

 

Are there any plans to start doing production journals (the training videos for BS where awesome before release) or anything like that prior to the FC2.0 being done?

 

I can't say if there's anything planned for prior to FC2, but I do know that Wags purchased a completely new machine to perform for projects like that. ;)

 

Are there any addons planned for BS in the interim?

 

The currently planned products, afaik, are FC2 and DCS:Warthog.

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When u say Warthog is going to be a standalone product, does that indicate improvements made to Warthog like for example extensions to the mission editor are not going to be available for BS pilots if they own both products ?

 

i had the understanding further products would be supplied in form of "modules" that would add onto dcs:bs.

 

 

thanks for info.

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I can understand ED needs to be cautious about release info as things do change... but honestly

DCS:BS and DCS:Warthog are standalone products. They will hopefully be compatible.

this is plain stupid...!!!!!

 

So WTF does DCS mean? Digital Combat Series or Digital Combat Standalone?

 

The whole point of DCS is to provide different HF aircraft (modules) all compatible in MP.. if this don't happen ED is shooting itself in the balls..

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A-10C as standalone? Where did this came from? Not that I'm interested into A-10, but interesting trivia.

 

BTW, where is that topic with list of possible/probable future releases? Can't find it right now....

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GuntiNDDS, it being a standalone product means exactly that: you will not need DCS:BS to use DCS:Warthog. They are using the same generation TFCSE though so it might be possible to port new features. I don't know whether they will be.

 

26-J39, "standalone" doesn't mean "cannot work together in MP". It means "standalone".

 

DCS:BS and FC2 are standalone products, neither will require the other to operate, yet they are compatible in multiplayer. Chill out a bit, ED's balls are secure. ;)

 

A-10C as standalone? Where did this came from? Not that I'm interested into A-10, but interesting trivia.

 

This came from updates that are more than a year old. :P

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DCS:BS and DCS:Warthog are standalone products. They will hopefully be compatible. As for release date - there is none set, so remember that those are your own speculations. ;)

 

Don't get stuck in words!

 

Black Shark and Warthog are both DCS modules... As I get it DCS is the Basis of the simulation series and Black Shark, Warthog or whatever comes next are modules that expand the Basis by adding new aircraft etc etc. Each module is standalone that means that each module comes with a copy of the basis.

 

The DCS basis may be updated with each module release but, as long as the update comes in a form of a patch in order to update earlier version of the basis, its possible that all modules can play together since they are parts of the same basis.

 

The word "hopefully" MAY mean that a patch will be needed for BS users in order to ensure that DCS:Black Shark and DCS:Warthog are online compatible. This is quite reasonable though.

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DCS:BS and DCS:Warthog are standalone products. They will hopefully be compatible.

 

If the official statement that both those games and FC2 will "hopefully" be compatible, I suggest Eagle take a long hard look at their business model they have planed. I've got a gut feeling that if its done like it should be, some massive patches would be needed, and to be honest I wouldn't care about downloading a 2.2 gb patch to get it online compatible + some spiffy new features. Company of Heroes is probably the best example of a standalone/compatibility with its expansions. Obviously some people get rattled and pissed at the thought of having to be on the internet to play a game, so this idea isn't not gonna fly for all.

 

If anyone is wondering, Company of Heroes and its 2 expansion packs are all standalone, yet they are all multiplayer compatible (except for 3 new multiplayer gamemodes specific to the 2nd expansion). If you owned any of the 3 games, you could start a private game or fight online against the content from the other 2 games.

 

To H-street: I think any improvements to Black Shark will only be found in the, I guess hopeful, FC2/BS compatibility patch and anything the community is dreaming up.

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EtherealN, i did not intend to be aggressive, just passionate.

Please help me understand this. Obviously BS and A10 will be standalone products, neither requiring the other to be playable... I did not expect anything else. Question is why the " may be compatible" ? This is my confusion.. The A-10 module will have further upgrades to the engine but not BS?

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That FC2 and BS will be compatible is, as far as I know, set in stone. It will happen. I don't know if this will be done as part of a larger patch for BS or whether it'll be a "simple" compatibility patch (the online server handling would probably have to be updated to make it see servers set up with FC2 as well).

 

The thing with using words like "hopefully" is that things can always happen. For example, it's not known to 100% at this time whether FC2 and DCS:Warthog will be online compatible - since there's still work to be done on the Warthog and such decisions will have to be taken for each module when it is easier to know how much work it would involve for this and future products.

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Question is why the " may be compatible" ?

 

Because DCS:Warthog is not done yet. The ambition is that they shall be online compatible, but until it is feature-complete it is impossible to know with absolute certainty whether there will be unforseen technical issues.

 

Look at it this way: if ED says "Product X will have feature Y" before the product is completed, and then, late in development, issues crop up that make feature Y a hindrance to completing the product, people will be very much upset. It's a bit like the whole thing with release dates for the DCS:BS 1.0.1 patch - ED always said "we hope to release it at time Z" and people understood that as a promise (in spite of that language) and in some cases went absolutely bananas. So it's basically a way to give information about what ED intends to do with as little risk as possible of giving false hopes. ED has some experience of the heated opinions that can arise when "things happen". ;)

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If the official statement that both those games and FC2 will "hopefully" be compatible, I suggest Eagle take a long hard look at their business model they have planed. I've got a gut feeling that if its done like it should be, some massive patches would be needed, and to be honest I wouldn't care about downloading a 2.2 gb patch to get it online compatible + some spiffy new features. Company of Heroes is probably the best example of a standalone/compatibility with its expansions. Obviously some people get rattled and pissed at the thought of having to be on the internet to play a game, so this idea isn't not gonna fly for all.

 

If anyone is wondering, Company of Heroes and its 2 expansion packs are all standalone, yet they are all multiplayer compatible (except for 3 new multiplayer gamemodes specific to the 2nd expansion). If you owned any of the 3 games, you could start a private game or fight online against the content from the other 2 games.

 

To H-street: I think any improvements to Black Shark will only be found in the, I guess hopeful, FC2/BS compatibility patch and anything the community is dreaming up.

 

Trying to be the devil's advocate here...

 

I think that EtherealN used the word "hopefully" as part of a policy, many companies adopt, not to state info on features that aren't throughoutfuly tested and may need patches to be functional.

 

Long before Company of Heroes the MMORPG genre and Warhammer40K:Dawn of War achieved standalone games being online compatible for one reason... the game core was the same across all standalone packs! This is happening in DCS series, right? The game core was updated before each release so no user needed to own more than one standalone pack to play with users owning other packs. This can be done to DCS too... this isn't so hard to achieve neither is innovative for today's industry!

 

Since ED said that FC2 will be online compatible with DCS Black Shark why not Warthog be online compatible with it too? If a patch is needed its OK for every reasonable person. There are extremely few products(if any!) that are compatible with future releases without ANY patching...

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Because DCS:Warthog is not done yet. The ambition is that they shall be online compatible, but until it is feature-complete it is impossible to know with absolute certainty whether there will be unforseen technical issues.

 

Damn you EtherealN!!! Let me back up your saying before coming again to justify my thoughts...!:D

 

Look at it this way: if ED says "Product X will have feature Y" before the product is completed, and then, late in development, issues crop up that make feature Y a hindrance to completing the product, people will be very much upset....;)

 

A nice example on this? Age of Conan said to support DX10 but the developers, a few weeks before release, announced that this feature won't be included at launch but it will be implemented in future updates. History showed that DX10 support came after several months and the frustration of customers hit game and developer reputation like a tsunami several times... Everybody agreed on that less advertisement of the feature would be better since devs hadn't made it functional when they started to advertise it!


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my question is if BS and FC2 are compatible and FC2 has a much greater player base, whats to stop people from shooting every BS player down? that chopper doesnt stand a chance against any jet.

 

Also I purchased LO when it came out but I never bought FC. Is it possible to buy just FC or do I have to buy both if I wanna play FC2 and does FC/FC2 update the Hog? A-10 and F-15 are the only jets in there Im interested in flying since DCS A-10 is gonna be a long while yet.


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I'm sorry EtherealN but it don't wash with me... I am well aware of the complexity of software development as I have previously studied. My problem is that the online compatibility between the DCS modules (FC2 aside) is a MASSIVE deal and to say oh it might be compatible is down right wrong. Your association with regards to the 1.0.1 patch is far from relevant.. The time factors in which products are released will never be 100% especially for software developers, as understandable i think.. To change major intended features is another story.

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whats to stop people from shooting every BS player down? that chopper doesnt stand a chance against any jet.

 

Teamwork and intelligent flying and flying low and the mission design will probably help a little, but mostly teamwork. Joining a voip server with others on your team will be the best way to protect yourself.

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my question is if BS and FC2 are compatible and FC2 has a much greater player base, whats to stop people from shooting every BS player down? that chopper doesnt stand a chance against any jet.

 

GG will only be able to feed me AMRAAMs if the mission we are flying on has a slot for his F-15. If the mission only has Ka-50's as flyables, there'll only be Ka-50's flying. If it has Ka-50's and Su-25's, those aircraft will be flying. This isn't Airquake, you know. ;)

 

Also I purchased LO when it came out but I never bought FC. Is it possible to buy just FC or do I have to buy both if I wanna play FC2 and does FC/FC2 update the Hog? A-10 and F-15 are the only jets in there Im interested in flying since DCS A-10 is gonna be a long while yet.

 

I'm unsure about what the exact requirements as far as FC1 goes for FC2.

FC2 features updates to most aircraft.

 

My problem is that the online compatibility between the DCS modules (FC2 aside) is a MASSIVE deal and to say oh it might be compatible is down right wrong.

 

That may be your opinion, but since at this time there has been no definitive information released about DCS:Warthog it is quite simply correct.

 

Your association with regards to the 1.0.1 patch is far from relevant.. The time factors in which products are released will never be 100% especially for software developers, as understandable i think.. To change major intended features is another story.

 

You realize that it's the features that usually are the culprit for delays in production, right? Features and time in development aren't magically separate entities. Features take time to produce, and whenever a feature takes more time than anticipated, delays happen, and sometimes features have to be dropped because the delays they would incur are not feasible if the developer wants to survive financially - they don't get revenue until the product is done and released.

 

Sometimes changing major features is required to allow the product to be released at all.

 

But you are going very much ahead of yourself. Note that at this time there has not been any official information regarding DCS:Warthog released. We know the product is intended to have multiplayer compatibility, but until ED consider the product complete enough to start the PR push we will not know at 100% certainty what features it'll contain. That's simple reality, whether you like it or not. I think that it is extremely likely to have MP compatiblity, but I don't know for certain and therefore I use a qualifier when talking about the feature.

 

What you are doing here is exactly the reason why ED isn't talking much about the subject. People take a word here and there and blow it vastly out of proportion and time then has to be spent dousing the flames - time that could have been spent, say, developing and testing the product. ;)

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.....whats to stop people from shooting every BS player down? that chopper doesnt stand a chance against any jet.....

 

Tor/Strela/Igla/S-300/Buk......Take your pick ;)

 

Hopefully we will see Intelligent Mission Design/Scenarios that will cater for all three Wings satisfactorily. Only with the Absolute Poorest of Mission Scenario/Design will you see Jets Splashing Helo's with Reckless Abandon.....On second thoughts - You won't: Will just be Nobody flying Kamov's in that particular Server I would have Thought.

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Thanks for the update, being in PC gaming for years now i've come to get a pretty good perspective on release dates and times.

 

When i said the "DCS hoped for a 9month after the NA" wasn't to say, 9months its not here, its more of to say. As far as expectations it was going to be DCS:A10C after BS, with the FC2.0 that changed and so i just wanted to get an idea of expectations.

 

realistically though i'm guessing DCS A10C will probably be a January/February 2011 product release in NA. (are they localizing at the same time as developement or still waiting after the Russian' release?)

 

Do you know if there are any plans for releasing of 3rd party models or anything like that for BS? the last i heard was that 3rd party models and assets would be released with the BS patches. Is that still the plan? The reason i ask is that with BS it seems the potential for the mod community to breathe life into the sim has been taken away with the promise of ED controlling the quality of the mods. But with FC2.0 and then A10C taking up the bulk of the developement time it seems that any hope for BS getting any sortof new content in 2010 is low. Maybe ED can rethink opening the game up to modders, i'm sure there are talented people, who if given the right tools could go a long way.

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All the resources I'm familiar with, state, that helicopter pilot is not totally helpless and easy prey for a jet fighter. I've tested some of these ideas in Longbow 2 and Enemy Engaged and they indeed worked!

 

I'm curious, how it would be with DCS quality and attention to details. I don't expect helo to be a threat to a fighter (however heatseekers could change that to some degree), but when skillfully flown, I don't expect it to be only a prey. At least not an easy one.

 

Think about tanks in DCS. They are no longer totally easy prey, as they used to be in previous sims and if they could deploy smoke grenades, they would become even harder nut to crack. Add to this smartly placed area defence assets and you have a problem even with a small platoon.

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