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Sustained Turn Rate of Fighters

Kuky

By Kuky
in Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 1 & 2

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RvEYoda

RvEYoda

Posted
Posted
"Flaps up" 600+ KIAS at 18.2 Deg per/sec is way off also, maybe we need to look at extra G settings to combat this kind of false BFM flying?

 

What payload, gross weight and altitude.

S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'

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3Sqn_TomAce

3Sqn_TomAce

Posted
Posted (edited)
Best way is to use an export script to produce turn rate logs. Then the only limiting factor

is how precise you can fly. This is one of the methods used during beta testing.

 

F-15 turn rates above M 0.7 should be VERY accurate for altitudes SL, 10k, 15k, 20k, 25k,

matching the rates in the chart AS posted, within 5%.

 

Flaps are broken atm.

 

 

Answer from your question above Yoda: 50% fuel, 1000ft, 8 missiles

 

I'm not the expert here just putting these questions out there, as suggested we'll run more tests to match AS's chart.


Edited by 3Sqn_TomAce
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RvEYoda

RvEYoda

Posted
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Did you guys notice it was out during testing?

 

Flaps being broken? Can't say. I didn't do dogfighting testing with flaps. Maybe one of the other testers did.

S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'

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RvEYoda

RvEYoda

Posted
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Did you guys notice the Eagle was out during testing?

 

Answer from your question above Yoda: 50% fuel, 1000ft, 8 missiles

 

I need the exact gross weight and payload, each weapon is modelled with different loaded

drag(they vary considerably). Best is if you do the test to match one of AS's charts or you

pick one from the F-15 manual yourself.

S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'

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GGTharos

GGTharos

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And using your config, I got 15DPS while being VERY generous with my own error for the stopwatch (I shaved off 2 sec).

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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RvEYoda

RvEYoda

Posted
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He meant that turn rate even without flaps is off, may I suggest someone does sea level test with specified weight and post that ?

 

I know, I am asking for what details of his payload and weight so I can do it :)

S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'

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RvEYoda

RvEYoda

Posted
Posted (edited)
rgr 15dps, will have to check with Dubb on exact speed as it's hard to judge from his chart.

 

Generally speaking for low altitudes, at speeds above M 0.85 you will not be able to pull enough

Gs to lose speed at full AB, therefor the semingly low turn rate. The reason is the aoa/G limiter

present since Flanker(also in fc1), you need the AFM to get past this(one day maybe DCS fighter X... :),

I am hoping!) , or you could trying to do the test with ACS failure.

 

he was full weapons and fuel, dropped fuel tanks after take off

 

Need more accurate data than this

 

For example : 37.000 lbs GW, Clean

or

40.000 lbs GW, 4 sparrow, 4 aim9, 1 tank


Edited by =RvE=Yoda

S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'

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A.S

A.S

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ok, i see. Im gonna test the birds myself now.

 

PS: the G-limiter was something, what threw me also off in my "feeling" at first, but this became explainable so far.

One thing i really want to say again here. I know 3Sqn likes to test things with wepaons loaded etc (DONT DO IT), because you do not know if those have correct drag and weigth values,

and it does not matter what real pilot training proceedures are. See it from a test pilot perspective. Use the blank jet first, from there move on.

That chart is 37000pounds grossweight/Clean config, so stick with it as basis first.

 

There might be +/-3 percent variations (also depending on your stick discipline) but performance characteristics in different regimes should be the same. If not, there must be an explanation aswell.

If there are major flaws, overseen somewhere, i will find them.


Edited by A.S

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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GGTharos

GGTharos

Posted
Posted

Ok, before people start getting frustrated etc ...

Please do the tests with the CHART CONFIGURATION.

Otherwise we really have nothing to discuss. The chart config and the chart values are our RL reference.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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RvEYoda

RvEYoda

Posted
Posted (edited)

37.000 lbs GW

Clean F-15

0.7M (equals ~455 kts SL)

 

Ingame test sealevel

Flight Manual: 8.4 G (about 20 dps)

Game: ~8.3G (about 20 dps)

 

Ingame test 10.000

Flight Manual: 6.1 G (about 15 dps)

Game: 6.2G (about 15 dps)

 

Ingame test 20.000

Flight Manual: 4.3 G (about 11 dps)

Game: 4.3G (about 11 dps)


Edited by =RvE=Yoda

S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'

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A.S

A.S

Posted
Posted
Ok, before people start getting frustrated etc ...

Please do the tests with the CHART CONFIGURATION.

Otherwise we really have nothing to discuss. The chart config and the chart values are our RL reference.

 

EXACLTY !

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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A.S

A.S

Posted
Posted
37.000 lbs GW

Clean F-15

~0.7M

 

Ingame test sealevel

Flight Manual Chart: 8.4 G

Game: ~8.3G (I am flying keyboard, so not super accurate atm :))

 

Ingame test 10.000

Flight Manual Chart: 6.1 G

Game: 6.2G

 

Can you quickly compare the rates aswell for same test, if you dont mind=?

(2nd pic)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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RvEYoda

RvEYoda

Posted
Posted
Can you quickly compare the rates aswell for same test, if you dont mind=?

(2nd pic)

 

done hehe

S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'

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RvEYoda

RvEYoda

Posted
Posted (edited)
do they match?

 

Check my previous post: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=870242#post870242

If you know G and speed you also know TR.

 

TR = (180*9.81*Gs)/(pi*V);

V:speed [m/s]

Gs:acceleration []


Edited by =RvE=Yoda

S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'

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Kuky

Kuky

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  • Author
Posted
37.000 lbs GW

Clean F-15

0.7M (equals ~455 kts SL)

 

Ingame test sealevel

Flight Manual: 8.4 G (about 20 dps)

Game: ~8.3G (about 20 dps)

 

Ingame test 10.000

Flight Manual: 6.1 G (about 15 dps)

Game: 6.2G (about 15 dps)

 

Ingame test 20.000

Flight Manual: 4.3 G (about 11 dps)

Game: 4.3G (about 11 dps)

 

Yoda, make test for all the speed range at these altitudes, not just 1 so we get a curve, Corner speed might be better matched but bellow and above it is not, at least not for the sea level test Dubb did

No longer active in DCS...

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RvEYoda

RvEYoda

Posted
Posted (edited)
Yoda, make test for all the speed range at these altitudes, not just 1 so we get a curve, Corner speed might be better matched but bellow and above it is not, at least not for the sea level test Dubb did

 

Looks like below M 0.4 the values are wrong, even without flaps.

 

37.000 lbs GW

Clean F-15

Sea Level

no flaps

 

Ingame test M0.3

Flight Manual: 3.0 G

Game: ~4.0 G

Ingame test M0.4

Flight Manual: 4.3 G

Game: ~4.6 G

Ingame test M0.5

Flight Manual: 5.4-5.5 G

Game: ~5.5 G

 

Ingame test M0.6

Flight Manual: 6.9 G

Game: ~6.9 G

 

Ingame test M0.7

Flight Manual: 8.4 G

Game: ~8.3G


Edited by =RvE=Yoda

S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'

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Kuky

Kuky

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  • Author
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I'd like turn rate value on the F-15 in game at sea level at 200/250/300/350/400 kts like Dubb did. Weapons or no weapons it doesn't matter, the curve you'd get from measuring turn rate is off... it's inverted.

No longer active in DCS...

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GGTharos

GGTharos

Posted
Posted

It isn't inverted. The slow speed ROT (in other parlance, available g) is incorrect - ie. too much.

 

And yes, it matters if you have weapons or not. Either the CHART CONFIGURATION is tested, or nothing. Anything that isn't done with the chart config is meaningless.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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RvEYoda

RvEYoda

Posted
Posted
I'd like turn rate value on the F-15 in game at sea level at 200/250/300/350/400 kts like Dubb did. Weapons or no weapons it doesn't matter, the curve you'd get from measuring turn rate is off... it's inverted.

 

check here :

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=870257#post870257

 

rates are wrong below M0.4. Now we can only pray and hope someone listens :helpsmilie:

S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'

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