A-10 Roll rate LOMAC FC 2.0

[Skete]

Hey everyone!

 

Hope this is posted in the right place, I just had a question in relation to mainly the A-10 and for that matter other aircraft in LOMAC is that the roll rate and general maneuverability of the aircraft feels as if i am able to turn the aircraft on a dime while maintaining a low speed.

I might be alone on this but it feels as if the aircraft is more fidgety and nimble than i would expect from a ground attack aircraft. I have not seen any specifications for the aircraft so it could well be able to achieve such an astonishing roll rate and climb and turn ability.

 

My main example of this is that when i am going in for a bombing run in the A-10 i am holding a constant IAS of 165kts the aircraft is still able to manage what seems like a really fast roll rate and turn away after dropping flares. At first i thought it may have been that i had inadvertently sped the game up (which i had done in the past with disastrous results) but now am still wondering what it could be.

 

If anyone is able to shed some light on this or has noticed the same thing please get back to me!

 

Cheers Skete

[EtherealN]

I'd say it's one of the advantages of straight wings with huge ailerons, though I've never actually flown a real A-10 the FC2 behaviour seems to match what I've seen A10's do.

 

Basically, the A10 (unless it's too heavily loaded, I would assume) is a bit like a WWII fighter plane in it's behaviour and envelope. Heavier weapon/fuel loads probably should have more of an effect on the aircraft than it does in FC2 though. But it's an interesting question - I'll have to see if I can find myself some documentation on it to compare the FC2 hog with. (The DCS hog as demoed on last years ITSEC was apparently a bit of a handful when heavily loaded.)

[Skete]

That is a good point you make Ether, but it just feels like even with the speed breaks out its roll rate is still going well, but the ailerons are the size of a small planes wing so i would not be surprised if it can actually roll that well.

 

I am having a play with it at the moment and found that if you do infact have the airbrakes and a low enough speed you really wont achieve a great roll rate but definitely create a nice experience when trying to turn at the low IAS ;)

[Boberro]

I feel it arcade in LO.... simply without any flight model .... I am curious how about real life flight ;]

[GGTharos]

In fact speed brakes are used to increase roll control on the A-10 for some situations.

 

I'm not sure if the SFM really takes into account reduced roll rate due to reduced airflow though.

 

That is a good point you make Ether, but it just feels like even with the speed breaks out its roll rate is still going well, but the ailerons are the size of a small planes wing so i would not be surprised if it can actually roll that well.

 

I am having a play with it at the moment and found that if you do infact have the airbrakes and a low enough speed you really wont achieve a great roll rate but definitely create a nice experience when trying to turn at the low IAS ;)

Edited April 20, 2010 by GGTharos

[Distiler]

As others SFM it doesen't almost have yaw inertia (sorry don't know hot to explain it better) and stalls are not very convincing, but videos of real A-10 shows an aircraft that flies almost like a 2WW fighter XD

Edited April 20, 2010 by Distiler

[Boberro]

It may feel arcade to you but the real one flies almost the same, my source said.

 

I will believe when I see A-10C :P

[LawnDart]

SimHQ: History of the Fairchild-Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II, Part One, Part Two

 

Excerpt from the article above:

At 300 knots with the speed brakes closed you can get a roll rate of around 130 degrees per second, but with the speed brakes at 40% roll rate increases to 200 degrees per second at the same speed.

 

Not sure how accurate those numbers are (!), but it gives you something to go on unless you can find another source for the A-10's (sustained) roll rate. Using this information while performing three consecutive aileron rolls:

 

SPD BRK 40%: (360 x 3) / 200 = 5.4 seconds

SPD BRK CLSD: (360 x 3) / 130 = 8.3 seconds

 

What roll rate does the sime give you at 300 knots?

Edited April 20, 2010 by LawnDart

[GGTharos]

What's wrong with your math? :D

 

Ah I see, you reversed the answers by mistake.

[LawnDart]

What's wrong with your math? :D

 

Ah I see, you reversed the answers by mistake.

 

Good catch! Copy and paste got the best of me... :doh:

 

Fixed.

[bradleyjs]

I find the A-10's roll rate in FC2.0 to be to squirelly -- It's very hard to fly now that it was in FC1.x ... I'm having a real hard time trying to enjoy it....

[jerda]

did you try adjusting the axis curve for your controller?

[bradleyjs]

Is that within the FC2 or the Control Panel app? I calibrate the controller everytime I play..

[Stangpilot]

I find the A-10's roll rate in FC2.0 to be to squirelly -- It's very hard to fly now that it was in FC1.x ... I'm having a real hard time trying to enjoy it....

 

That has to be your controller setup. The A-10 flies just great to me and although it is different, its not drastically different to me from 1.12.

[slowhand]

you need to watch an airshow that has the A10 in its line up they are too cool too watch up close...go to youtube and watch the 2004 Joint Services Open House - A-10 Thunderbolt II Demo it willl show you how well the hog really does roll..and i think FC 2 has us out there on the edge with its A10.. hope tht helps. 5x5

[Moa]

The roll rate of most modern combat aircraft is around 360 degrees per second. The A4 Skyhawk was known for being able to roll at around 720 degrees per second. It is a great improvement in LockOn 2 that the roll rate has been increased to more realistic levels.

 

If you think that the aircraft feel 'fidgety' then I'm guessing you may never have flown a real aircraft. To me it always feels like 'skating on ice'. The wind and all sorts of factors can all perturb your travel slightly, even when you're all nicely trimmed. To me, most flight sims feel like you're driving a tractor that ploughs straight-ahead. It is the lack of 'fidgetiness' that lighter aircraft have I find noticeable in sims.

[bradleyjs]

It must be my controller (Logitech WingMan, not a real joystick like my Cougar HOTAS), I suspect. It's just that I can't put it on the kitchen table connected to my laptop -- the Wife's rules ;-)

 

>>then I'm guessing you may never have flown a real aircraft

I've been a pilot since '85 -- and have flown USAF and Civilian aircraft ..

 

So, I guess it's time to buy a new controller... Thanks!

[TooTubular]

I noticed it was pretty fidgety with my Sidewinder. I upped the axis curve on all dimensions to 18 and it's quite a bit better. Granted I've only flown for about lunchbreak minutes. ;) I'm guessing some heavy tweaking in the controls section of the settings menu will get things where I want them. No doubt though, aircraft feel way more responsive than FC1.

[LawnDart]

The roll rate of most modern combat aircraft is around 360 degrees per second. The A4 Skyhawk was known for being able to roll at around 720 degrees per second.

 

Not sustained... Most combat birds of this era have sustained roll rates in the 200's (dps). The A-4 and T-38 are two planes known for fast roll rates, but you'd have to factor in whether it was instantaneous rates, roll coupling or a sustained (and controlled) roll rate.

[Moa]

True. We could discuss ad-infinitum over the full differential equations of compressible fluid flow the effect that any particular variable has on roll-rate. I agree with your point that the roll rate is a function of a lot of parameters.

 

My point was that the higher roll rate in LO2 is more realistic than the slow rates in LO1.12. Hence, some 'fidgetiness' is to be expected - although it sounds like the original poster had some hardware issues and adding a bit of control dampening in the software also helped.

[Skete]

Hey all,

 

from all accounts it does sound like the A-10 does perform as what the book says, but just the fidgety feel i was talking about can also be put down to how quickly the aircraft is able to yaw on the ground (when getting to take off speed) and in the air - of course this could be a factor because the aircraft has the jet engines placed right in front on the elevator and rudder so more movement at low airspeeds is accountable for because of the increased airflow over those control surfaces.

 

I have experience with flying aerobatic aircraft (pitts special and decathlon) and from starting my aileron rolls in the decath and moving onto the pitts it was an amazing experience to see the difference in the roll rates, I just thought for the size of the A-10 what i am feeling in the aircraft felt at times to be a bit unrealistic.

I will have a play with the axis's on the joystick and see if that can change it a bit

[LawnDart]

Skete,

 

Are you using any curve for your joy-y and joy-x in the options? (It's found under "axis tune" for each axis/aircraft). With the AFM's (Ka-50, Su-25T) it's recommended to use a linear curve (i.e. no curve), but for the SFM's (incl. the A-10A) you ought to add a curvature of 30-50% for your x-, y-, and rudder inputs.

 

Could that be why your jet feels so twitchy?

[ShadowVonChadwick]

Skete,

 

Are you using any curve for your joy-y and joy-x in the options? (It's found under "axis tune" for each axis/aircraft). With the AFM's (Ka-50, Su-25T) it's recommended to use a linear curve (i.e. no curve), but for the SFM's (incl. the A-10A) you ought to add a curvature of 30-50% for your x-, y-, and rudder inputs.

 

Could that be why your jet feels so twitchy?

 

Thats what he needs and hasn't found those options yet. I use 30% curve, 5% dead and limit saturation somewhat (not rudder)

[Skete]

Skete,

 

Are you using any curve for your joy-y and joy-x in the options? (It's found under "axis tune" for each axis/aircraft). With the AFM's (Ka-50, Su-25T) it's recommended to use a linear curve (i.e. no curve), but for the SFM's (incl. the A-10A) you ought to add a curvature of 30-50% for your x-, y-, and rudder inputs.

 

Could that be why your jet feels so twitchy?

 

Dart, you have hit the nail on the head! just configured it up then and it feels so much more responsive and slugish (what i was hoping for) in the lower end movements.

 

Thanks again

 

Skete

[LawnDart]

You're welcome! ;)