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Okay watch this interesting Interview with F-15C Demo Pilot, Sam Joplin.

 

http://www.aero-tv.net/index.cfm?videoid=669cb198-d6a6-46c5-874d-a77db07e5ce4

 

Listen with around 1:18 left in the video as he talks about going into a double-Immelmann maneuver at 420 kts. Now go try it in FC2 w/ patch: No weapons; 60% internal fuel; on a mild summer day; with little or no wind. After the first immelmann (max pull), you'll have almost no airspeed left for the second immelmann if you start in at 420 kts. Underpowered virtual Eagle.

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Hmm...you must be omniscient.

 

Probably not - just calling you on your original statement, which was blatantly lacking substantiation ;)

 

Cannot just throw out such an allegation without at least posting a track illustrating your perceived 'Shortcoming' of the 'Underpowered Virtual Eagle'[sīc].

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Okay watch this interesting Interview with F-15C Demo Pilot, Sam Joplin.

 

http://www.aero-tv.net/index.cfm?videoid=669cb198-d6a6-46c5-874d-a77db07e5ce4

 

Listen with around 1:18 left in the video as he talks about going into a double-Immelmann maneuver at 420 kts. Now go try it in FC2 w/ patch: No weapons; 60% internal fuel; on a mild summer day; with little or no wind. After the first immelmann (max pull), you'll have almost no airspeed left for the second immelmann if you start in at 420 kts. Underpowered virtual Eagle.

 

The manouvers are not described with the G-loads involved. You can fly an Immelmann at 420 kts with 2.5 g and you can fly it with 5 g. It's still the same manouver, but in the latter case, you bleed much more airspeed, loosing energy.

 

Try the same manouvers with less stick movement, e.g. don't pull so hard.

kind regards,

Raven....

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The manouvers are not described with the G-loads involved. You can fly an Immelmann at 420 kts with 2.5 g and you can fly it with 5 g. It's still the same manouver, but in the latter case, you bleed much more airspeed, loosing energy.

 

Try the same manouvers with less stick movement, e.g. don't pull so hard.

 

That is very true. But I've been (as I'm sure you have too) to many airshows and watched the F-15 demo do the double immelmann...each half loop looks pretty tight radius to me (lots of great vapor :-)), much tighter than if the pilot was only loading up 2.5g-5g...which would seem to make for very wide and lazy immelmanns...but I will admit, I'm not a real fighter pilot like 159th Viper. :thumbup:

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...but I will admit, I'm not a real fighter pilot like 159th Viper. :thumbup:

 

Wrong.........again ;)

 

 

:thumbup:

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Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder!

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

'....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell....

One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'

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Wrong.........again ;)

 

 

:thumbup:

 

 

Dang it! Just curious, is there anyone on this forum who knows, personally, an F-15 pilot? If so, it would be great to get that person some FC2 Eagle stick time and give his opinion on the FM accuracy.

i7 8700K @ Stock - Win10 64 - 32 RAM - GTX 1070 SC - 55 inch 4k Display

 

 

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Thanks much for this video! This guy seems to be a lot like how i am right now. I started playing flight simulators and decided I wanted to be a USAF pilot. From there I saw a few airshows that got me even more pumped up. Ill be going through AFROTC when I go into college in a year and am gonna work my butt off to get a pilot slot. Im the type of person that believes you can achieve anything you want as long as you work for it. I like the USAF's rules in terms of recieving a slot because it is all based off how hard you work, whether that be physically or academically. Ill have a lot of problems along the way, mostly medical ones seeing that I was born with a smaller left hand, but it doesnt really affect anything. Wanting to be a pilot is nerve wracking though for me, every night I see myself questioning "What if I dont get medically certified." Hopefully things will go smoothly.

 

Sorry for rambling on I get worked up over this kinda stuff haha :)

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

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Dang it! Just curious, is there anyone on this forum who knows, personally, an F-15 pilot? If so, it would be great to get that person some FC2 Eagle stick time and give his opinion on the FM accuracy.

 

I do know of someone that is a real F-16C pilot who plays Freefalcon and openfalcon for fun. He says that the avionics are spot on besides the bugs/glitches, but the flight model is inaccurate. He says that you cant pull 9G's while supersonic because the elevators dont have enough power to tilt back enough to pull that kind of G. He also says that at 40,000ft you gotta be "super ginger" on the stick, or else youll throw the aircraft into a stall

 

I also know a friend whos cousin was the first pilot to get an air to air kill in the warthog.

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Intel i7-4790k | Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo heat sink | Thermaltake Core V71 case | 750W EVGA PSU | 8gb G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 RAM | MSI Z97 Gaming 5 LGA 1150 motherboard | Samsung SSD | ASUS STRIX GTX 970 | Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog | TIR 5 | Razer Deathadder | Corsair K70

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I don't fly the eagle a lot but it is the most powerful jet in the sim, and you are not supposed to pull like crazy because that way you lose energy. the Eagle was designed to follow the idea of energy maneuvering from the Colonel Boyd. This man help to restructure the fighter FX program; thanks to his ideas we have f-15s and f-16s. look at this video minute 2:49

 

 

As the pilot says on the video he is not going over the limits of what the jet can do; it is an scripted demo.

I believe the best demos for american fighters are the ones perform by test pilots from Boeing and Lockheed. As a test pilots they got to show more. I recommend you look on youtube for the boeing f-18 superhornet demo and the f-15e. You will notice that the airplane can do more that what it is shown on American air shows.

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... He says that you cant pull 9G's while supersonic because the elevators dont have enough power to tilt back enough to pull that kind of G...

 

Sorry but that is not accurate. I not saying the F-16 can't or can pull 9g while supersonic. I'm just saying that the Integrated Servo Actuators (ISA) have enough force to more all the flight surfaces at any speed and we do not have elevators on F-16, we call them Stabs (horizontal stabilizer).

Any chance you can ask your friend where could I get the info? What technical manual has the info? 29 GS, -1 or-1-1. That way I can go to work and check it out.


Edited by mvsgas

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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To find out the paramenters for the double immelman, download this:

AFI11-246V1 Page 95.

 

Also has all the other maneuver too guys. Save your time debating.

 

f15demo.jpg

4.18.1. Maneuver Description. Arrive at show center wings level, at 420 knots and

500 feet AGL. Select full afterburner and begin a smooth 6.5 to 7.5 G wings-level pull to

execute the first Immelmann. The pull is held until 10 degrees nose high, inverted, and wings

level. Relax stick pressure and perform an unloaded 180-degree roll to a wings-level upright

position. With greater than 250 knots perform a smooth wings-level pull to approximately

25 units AOA for the second Immelmann. The second pull is also held until 10 degrees nose

high, inverted, and wings level. Relax stick pressure and perform an unloaded 180-degree

roll to a wings-level upright position. Altitude at the top should be approximately 6,500 feet

AGL. Accelerate to 275 knots, terminate afterburner, and set up for the Split-S.

4.18.2. Abnormal Procedures. If entry parameters are not achieved by show center, delay

initial pull until parameters are met. If not met by 2,000 feet past show center, reposition for

next maneuver. If less than 250 knots after rollout on the first Immelmann, delay the second

pull until parameters are met. If less than 6,000 feet AGL at the completion of the maneuver,

start a gradual climb to be at a minimum of 6,000 feet AGL prior to the Split-S.

Page 83

 

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil


Edited by mvsgas

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Okay watch this interesting Interview with F-15C Demo Pilot, Sam Joplin.

 

http://www.aero-tv.net/index.cfm?videoid=669cb198-d6a6-46c5-874d-a77db07e5ce4

 

Listen with around 1:18 left in the video as he talks about going into a double-Immelmann maneuver at 420 kts. Now go try it in FC2 w/ patch: No weapons; 60% internal fuel; on a mild summer day; with little or no wind. After the first immelmann (max pull), you'll have almost no airspeed left for the second immelmann if you start in at 420 kts. Underpowered virtual Eagle.

I followed the instructions on the AFI 11-246 and it work like a charm. I keep ending up to high (8500 feet) but I had plenty of speed.

 

I had 11,000lbs of fuel. I kept g load to about 6g and 420 knots (+or - 20)

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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I understand MAX is max A/B setting (as opposed to MIL), but what is A/R ?

 

As required

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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f15demo.jpg

4.18.1. Maneuver Description. Arrive at show center wings level, at 420 knots and

500 feet AGL. Select full afterburner and begin a smooth 6.5 to 7.5 G wings-level pull to

execute the first Immelmann. The pull is held until 10 degrees nose high, inverted, and wings

level. Relax stick pressure and perform an unloaded 180-degree roll to a wings-level upright

position. With greater than 250 knots perform a smooth wings-level pull to approximately

25 units AOA for the second Immelmann. The second pull is also held until 10 degrees nose

high, inverted, and wings level. Relax stick pressure and perform an unloaded 180-degree

roll to a wings-level upright position. Altitude at the top should be approximately 6,500 feet

AGL. Accelerate to 275 knots, terminate afterburner, and set up for the Split-S.

4.18.2. Abnormal Procedures. If entry parameters are not achieved by show center, delay

initial pull until parameters are met. If not met by 2,000 feet past show center, reposition for

next maneuver. If less than 250 knots after rollout on the first Immelmann, delay the second

pull until parameters are met. If less than 6,000 feet AGL at the completion of the maneuver,

start a gradual climb to be at a minimum of 6,000 feet AGL prior to the Split-S.

Page 83

 

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil

 

 

^^^^ What he said :smartass:

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I followed the instructions on the AFI 11-246 and it work like a charm. I keep ending up to high (8500 feet) but I had plenty of speed.

 

I had 11,000lbs of fuel. I kept g load to about 6g and 420 knots (+or - 20)

 

I tried this several times as well with the same resulting altitude of 8400 - 8500 feet AGL instead of the real life 6500 feet according to AFI 11-246. I tried the maneuver with higher G loading and was able to achieve more realistic exit altitude. The more I fly the Eagle in FC2, the more I'm realizing that it is at the heart of its performance envelope at sea level flight...but, at medium and high altitudes there is a pretty significant acceleration/turn rate drop. Anybody remember the old Time Life AIRPOWER series? In the "Air Superiority" volume Veteran Fighter pilot Richard Borowski says that "30,000ft at 0.9 Mach is the heart of the envelope for the F-15."

i7 8700K @ Stock - Win10 64 - 32 RAM - GTX 1070 SC - 55 inch 4k Display

 

 

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And just what do you think sustained turn rate and g's will be at 30000'?

 

No idea. That's why I'm wondering what Col. Richard Borowsky was talking about in the Documentary regarding the heart of the F-15 envelope being 30,000 feet at 0.9 Mach?

i7 8700K @ Stock - Win10 64 - 32 RAM - GTX 1070 SC - 55 inch 4k Display

 

 

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Around 4g ... 7.5 DPS sustained turn. Might be just a bit snappier if he gets rid of the centerline. That's where the g/ROT peak is ... ie. the heart of the envelope at 30000' is at around 0.9M.

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