Jump to content

Flight Director - evil or genius?


Yurgon

Recommended Posts

I do not want to offend anyone but my opinion is that many people have problems with their input devices; if you have an FFB stick(i have a cyborg evo force and it's not perfect), pedals, many hours of flight and the dh / dt switch in dt position (do not know why but it works for me so) you should have no conflict with the autopilot even in noe flights and aerobatics in FD mode off

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 102
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Agreed.

 

Also, it serves to be noted that sticks with a proper "pinky switch" are far superior in this regard. For the Shark I passed up using the profiler simply to use the pinky as my trimmer - this means trimmer use is completely non-intrusive. With my previous stick (Evo Force) I could not use trim and other stick buttons at the same time, which does have some impact. (Though it serves to be said that I did most of my Shark flying with the EVO and never found a need to use the FD for anything - my opinion of the FD is based on flying with the EVO for the most part, including NOE and aerobatics such as loopings, barrels, split-S, funnels, hammerheads and such fun stuff.)

 

I did not use the FFB function of my EVO though.

 

If you have the option of switching to a stick or HOTAS with a pinky switch - take it. Even if you are comfortable as-is, it really is very nice to be able to trim at the same time as you are working your Skhval, locking targets and so on.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules |

|
| Life of a Game Tester
Link to comment
Share on other sites

so basically... is FD something like.. autotrim? or does it help you to trim the heli accurately? I have BS for a year now and I never used FD. I learned to fly without it. I guess now its pointless to use it right?

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Specs: i7 920, GTX295, 6GB Corsair Dominator 1600Mhz, 1TB WD, ASUS P6T Deluxe, 1000W Corsair PSU,

Coolermaster Cosmos "S" case, X-52pro, TrackIR 4

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not quite. Manual does details it's function, but what it does is this:

 

1 - "FD" stands for "Flight Director". This does not mean autopilot, it means it gives you visual cues (on HUD) on how to fly to achieve what the flight plan says you should do.

 

2 - The yaw, pitch and roll channels of your standard autopilot have two functions: hold and damp. The former tries to hold your trimmed attitude - so if you trim for an attitude that would give you "straight-and-level" flight, they'll have 20% authority to ensure that you keep that attitude, adjusting for changing winds and such things. This helps ensure that you can achieve "hands-off" flight. They also have a "damper" function, which dampens erratic input through cyclic and rudder, as a further stabilization aid to help you keep the aircraft balanced - especially important during transition and low-speed maneuver in my opinion. (In high-speed maneuver you basically fly as if you were a fixed-wing.)

 

3 - FD disables the "attitude keeper". Some people experience that they are "fighting the autopilot" and therefore have an easier time using the FD, while others (like me) experience no problems and theorize that people just never learned to use trimming properly.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules |

|
| Life of a Game Tester
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm flying DCS:BS since 1.0 version and i don't using FD , in any missions or situations!Reason for that is because i think that feature is taking from player very first thing what this great peace of work should give to us and that is hely-flight "feeling"...

Especially in last (1.02)version when certain "tweaks" in flight model are very obvious! Like mathematically precise auto-hover(even with crosswind), altitude stability in level flight without constant corrections of colectiv inputs(i don't use alt-hold dumper) , chances for falling in vortex ring is now almost 0.

So, if you like "lighter way" in 1.02 just click on "game" button in game settings menu...

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Virtual Aerial Operations

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's quite easy when you're doing it at 30KT (about 50-60kph) as SOPs dictate.

Where's the fun in NOE at 30kts? Gotta agree with EtherealN. :-)

 

Is it really SOP to do NOE at no more than 30kts? It'll take the heli ages to get anywhere at this speed. I can hardly imagine how to get to the target, fight, and RTB unless the target is really close to the airport/Farp. Besides, it's an invitation for any kind of small arms fire. They could hardly miss a vehicle traveling at 50kph inside a town, and NOE only adds some 10 to 30 (?) meters altitude on top of that. Any M-16 or AK47 would become a very serious threat to a heli doing NOE at that velocity.

 

I don't see a need for any violent maneuvers. If in the helicopter you cannot avoid something with a hard turn, you're not going to avoid it.

You keep coming up with that point on violent maneuvers. I know from my experience that violent maneuvers tend to get the aircraft crashed, however there's a difference between wildly throwing the controls around the pit on the one hand and performing strong but controlled maneuvers where the pilot stays in control on the other hand.

 

When terrain cover is nearby, a simple turn may not suffice to get there. And that's the whole point, isn't it? How to get there as safe as possible as fast as possible? IMO FD does help to give full control to the pilot.

 

Most people consider a violent, practically uncontrollable maneuver to be 'sudden'. They are most often entirely unnecessary. If you have an emergency, you hit the emergency AP disengage switch.

That did come up earlier in this thread and I strongly disagree. As I unterstand it, "Emergency AP disengage" does disengage all 4 channels, so all of a sudden the pilot has a completely different aircraft to fly. IMHO this is as much of a danger as any SAM or AAA threat could ever be. Where's the point in losing all the assistance the aircraft provides? In all honesty, this doesn't make any sense to me.

 

That is essentially correct. It should also give you the impression that hands-on flying is seldom required ... even during relatively close combat. It's all trim-move-stick.

Yup, I think we can agree on that, and that's basically what I've learned from this discussion. :-)

 

I've tried flying with FD a couple times, and I really didn't see the point of it. It doesn't give me any capability I didn't already have, but it does remove some very very good capabilities from my list of options.

I guess that remains a matter of preference. In NOE/aerobatics and some other conditions I prefer the hands-on, trimmer-off approach that FD offers. In most other conditions I now see the point in using the FD-off, trim-on-every-maneuver approach and how it helps the pilot.

 

For now, I reserve the right to use FD whenever I want to, but try to lower that desire over time. :-)

 

[Edit: Typo fixed.]


Edited by Yurgon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where's the fun in NOE at 30kts? Gotta agree with EtherealN. :-)

 

Is it really SOP to do NOE at no more than 30kts?

 

Yes, it is. Why you ask? Because going faster will get you killed.

You don't have quite the same issues in a flight sim as you do in RL. I would dare say you have far more forgiving terrain, fewer obstructions, less atmospheric effects and a more stable aircraft.

 

Finally, you're not afraid for your life. Helicopters don't need to fly super-low all the time, and they don't. It's simply not necessary. NOE is part of a flight plan or reaction, and treated as such. If they need to go faster they will, but SOP is 30kts.

 

It'll take the heli ages to get anywhere at this speed. I can hardly imagine how to get to the target, fight, and RTB unless the target is really close to the airport/Farp. Besides, it's an invitation for any kind of small arms fire. They could hardly miss a vehicle traveling at 50kph inside a town, and NOE only adds some 10 to 30 (?) meters altitude on top of that. Any M-16 or AK47 would become a very serious threat to a heli doing NOE at that velocity.

 

So what? It'll be a threat at any velocity, just for a shorter time. It doesn't matter that much if your time of exposure is lowered such that you take 100 rounds instead of 300. Both will kill you.

 

When terrain cover is nearby, a simple turn may not suffice to get there. And that's the whole point, isn't it? How to get there as safe as possible as fast as possible? IMO FD does help to give full control to the pilot.

 

Never saw a need for FD in order to accomplish this, but ok.

 

That did come up earlier in this thread and I strongly disagree. As I unterstand it, "Emergency AP disengage" does disengage all 4 channels, so all of a sudden the pilot has a completely different aircraft to fly. IMHO this is as much of a danger as any SAM or AAA threat could ever be. Where's the point in losing all the assistance the aircraft provides? In all honesty, this doesn't make any sense to me.

 

Makes more sense to me than engaging FD. It's something that's used for emergencies - FD is a matter of SOP and SOP says no. I won't dispute that as a sim pilot you can do whatever you like - just saying the real guys don't use it.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have never used FD since it is not mapped to my stick and is 'far away'...

 

simply by holding the trim i have been able to perform some pretty hair raising maneuvers to save my bird but then can release trim at desired heading to focus on the fight...the only AP i rarely use is the Alt-AP...once i started turning that off i can hardly think of a time i have ever 'fought' my chopper.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As these trim / autopilot / FD threads come up all the time in the forum it makes me wonder: What will be the next big thing in DCS Warthog? If the A-10C has none of these controversial or hart to explain/grasp functions like ye olde favorites above then the Hog forum will surely be an empty and deserted place, filled only with praise threads for ED and the occasional tumbleweed floating around.

 

But somehow I doubt that it'll be all that easy. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The most constroversial thing about flying the hog will probably be the altitude you fly at :D

 

GG: Quit flying below 10000' AGL, it's bad for your health

MBot: But Fulda Gap - fly below 100'!!!

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, it is. Why you ask? Because going faster will get you killed.

 

Yeah, no way I'd fly NOE faster IRL. In a sim it's find for fun since, you know, trees don't kill you and a minor mistake at the treeline is tolerable.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules |

|
| Life of a Game Tester
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Note lack of dust - greek ground is kinda hard-packed like that in a lot of places.

 

As far as the low flying goes - I'm pretty sure they're not exceeding 30kt.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And those Apache pilots probably knew the terrain they are flying in pretty well.

 

The most constroversial thing about flying the hog will probably be the altitude you fly at :D

LOL right, I can already see that one coming up a couple of times. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The most constroversial thing about flying the hog will probably be the altitude you fly at :D

 

What controversy? Fly at 15,000, pickle at 10, pull out by 8. That's the last I want to hear about it lol.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Note lack of dust - greek ground is kinda hard-packed like that in a lot of places.

 

As far as the low flying goes - I'm pretty sure they're not exceeding 30kt.

 

Actually yes... don't expect to see dust clouds from the low flying. The ground is quite hard, compact and rocky in most places. Ask the German guys at Krauss-Maffei who had to provide us with different tracks for the Leopard2 Tanks, the standard ones that are used in Germany kept breaking too easily when tanks first participated in exercises!

 

Anyone can easily tell the low altitude judging from how close the Apache is flying to its shadow.

 

And those Apache pilots probably knew the terrain they are flying in pretty well.

 

I don't believe that someone is able to remember a hilly place of some square miles, that he visits once or twice a year, in such great detail that he would do extra ordinary things. You can judge from the video that the Apaches are not flying at a very high speed there.


Edited by isoul
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't know about the Leo's! Funny :)

 

Actually yes... don't expect to see dust clouds from the low flying. The ground is quite hard, compact and rocky in most places. Ask the German guys at Krauss-Maffei who had to provide us with different tracks for the Leopard2 Tanks, the standard ones that are used in Germany kept breaking too easily when tanks first participated in exercises!

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What controversy? Fly at 15,000, pickle at 10, pull out by 8. That's the last I want to hear about it lol.

 

Why dive when you have GBU's? ;)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules |

|
| Life of a Game Tester
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So many acronyms:megalol:....I've got absolutely no idea what you guys are on about!

Intel i7 6700k, Asus GTX1070, 16gb DDR4 @ 3200mhz, CH Fighterstick, CH Pro Throttle, CH Pro Rudder Pedals, Samsung Evo 850 SSD @ 500GB * 2, TrackIR 5 and 27" monitor running at 2560 * 1440, Windows 10.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reading the thread I can understand why folks would use the flight director, but to me it is more work then just holding the trim button down while moving around. It has become second nature that when I have the stick in hand the trim button is engaged and when I am on course hands off and I am setting up weapons and such.

I guess really it comes down to preference. I ahve never engaged the FD nor do I think I will need too.

 

 

Bullet

I7 4790K running at 4390 with a gigabyte board with 16 gigs of ram with an Asus gtx 660-ti and 2 tb of hard drive space on 2 wd hard drives. A X-65F Hotas with trackir4 and pro combat peddles. A kick butt home built machine unfortunately running a windows 7 OS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gotta love acronyms

 

So many acronyms:megalol:....I've got absolutely no idea what you guys are on about!

The military in general and military aviation in special are huge fans of TLAs and FLAs. Guess that's SOP too. :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...