DCS A-10C QUESTIONS

[Nu-NRG]

EPLRS has nothing to do with AM/FM/UHF radios. Its a system on its own. In case of A-10C that sistem is called SADL

Edited December 10, 2016 by Nu-NRG

[shagrat]

An armed Humvee should get EPLRS in the WP Task from the start. If not add it.

 

The first unit of the group gets the EPLRS "green cross". (If you distribute the group, you may not be looking at the first unit?).

The "green cross" shows up on the TAD and TGP if JTRS is switched on, which is standard if you follow the startup procedure.

 

Keep in mind, you need a line of sight to the unit to receive the EPLRS signal! It does not pass through mountains, so in valleys and behind hills, etc. You may or may not see it until you have a line of sight.

 

IIRC, and that is a big if, the SADL is a "network" so it should distribute information across all units hooked up to the network, so in theory you should be able to "see" units on the TAD that are recognized by other members of the network? Maybe a subject matter expert can give more details from real life?

I'm not sure it is modeled that way in DCS.

 

To check you don't have any problems put a group of two Humvees on a road in flat terrain (between Kutaisi and Senaki) verify "EPLRS -a" is in the waypoint task, then put an A-10C on "Take-off from runway" and fly to 12000 ft MSL. Now put the TGP on the road with the Humvees and scan it.

 

You should see a "green cross" imposed over the lead vehicle on the TGP.

[Gliptal]

If I open halfway the speedbrakes while on the ground, then flip the SPD BK EMER RETR, what's the correct behaviour IRL? Should they slowly close, or should they remain still?

 

EDIT: Was answered elsewhere: the correct behaviour is to slowly close.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Gliptal

[MRaza]

I have a question about the AOA warning in the A-10. I'm going to be referencing this video by Ralfidude:

 

 

So at 3:56, he gets the AOA warning but his AOA only reads -5. Why is that? Also if he is getting that warning shouldn't he decrease the steepness of his turn or he will stall out?

[razo+r]

His AOA is clearly more than -5, (and -5 isn't an angle at all) it's at least at 15-20 degrees

 

that -5 displays on how far down in degrees his FPM is in comparsion with the Horizon

 

For more detailed explanation, read the manual

[MRaza]

His AOA is clearly more than -5, (and -5 isn't an angle at all) it's at least at 15-20 degrees

 

that -5 displays on how far down in degrees his FPM is in comparsion with the Horizon

 

For more detailed explanation, read the manual

 

I have but I can't seem to rap my head around this AoA stuff. Have also read a lot of outside info

[mvsgas]

I have a question about the AOA warning in the A-10. I'm going to be referencing this video by Ralfidude:

 

 

So at 3:56, he gets the AOA warning but his AOA only reads -5. Why is that? Also if he is getting that warning shouldn't he decrease the steepness of his turn or he will stall out?

 

Where are you looking for the AOA? My guess is your are looking at the wrong thing. Page 93-94 item six is the manual will show the AOA indicator. At the time on the video you indicate, the only -5 I see is for the flight path angle, which AFAIK, is not the same as AOA.

 

Edit: I type to slow :D

Also see page 479 of the manual for more AOA info.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=64172

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=68817

Edited December 10, 2016 by mvsgas

[Gliptal]

AoA is the angle between the line that extends from your nose, and your velocity vector (i.e. where you're actually going). The FPM in the HUD is a visualization of the latter, which explains why you can place it on an ant on the ground and be 100% sure you're going to give that particular ant a very bad time.

 

When you climb or turn, the direction you're actually going will "lag behind" where you're pointing: the slower you are, the more it lags (i.e. the higher the AoA). At certain angles, the airflow on the wings becomes disrupted (basically vortices start to form), and you start losing lift: that's buffetting. If you keep pulling the stick, increasing AoA, one or both wings will completely loose the ability to generate lift, stalling the aircraft. The "wing-drop" you experience during tight turns when riding the chopped tone is exactly that.

 

It's also not true that the faster you go the higher AoA angles you can pull: an aircraft can stall at any speed, you can check by yourself by yanking the stick back hard while in a 300+ knots dive.

 

Just to be clear, although it's easier to think that AoA is controlled through the pitch channel alone, the fact that it's a function of speed means that thrust is relevant as well. To understand how this work, slow down to 160 knots and place your FPM on the horizon line: note how your nose is pointing up, but your velocity vector is straight forward; now add thrust while applying some forward stick to keep the FPM stable, and notice how your nose lowers as you gain speed; if you hadn't applied forward stick, the nose would have tended to stay in place, and the FPM would have risen instead.

 

This ties to pretty much everything when it comes to flying: trimming and landings for example. The latter is especially interesting, because it explains how switched controls work with landing (i.e. controlling speed with pitch and slope with thrust).

 

To confuse matters a bit, the AoA gauge in the cockpit is not in ° but rather in unspecified "units".

Edited December 10, 2016 by Gliptal

[Yurgon]

however i noticed, that for me there are no other units showing up, even when they have EPLRS. i suspect, that is, because i only tuned my AM radio to the ATC and left the others untouched.

 

Everything shagrat said on the topic. :thumbup:

 

And double-check that the JTRS switch on the AHCP is set "On". :smartass:

 

[...] are there some default frequencies for different nations, or different uses? in the sim and in real life?

 

There are some, like the emergency aka "Guard" frequencies.

 

As far as I know, but don't quote me on this, airports tend to use the UHF band. Since DCS allows to contact the tower on all the frequency bands that the DCS aircraft use, if your aircraft has a UHF radio, I'd contact the tower on this one just for immersion, but in terms of gameplay it doesn't matter at all which one you use.

 

Many mission don't make use of frequencies at all, or they only provide frequencies for tanker and AWACS aircraft. But it would be a good thing to learn how to properly use the radios, because some of the best missions require you to tune to the correct freq on the correct radio, or you won't receive instructions/be able to contact other assets; I'm thinking mostly about Baltic Dragon's missions, including the excellent "The Enemy Within" campaign. :thumbup:

 

If you start flying online, chances are that your wingmen will ask you to install one of several programs or plugins that emulate correct radio usage via TeamSpeak or even independent of TS. If you know how to tune freqs, you'll just have to quickly set up that tool and then you'll be good to go. :)

 

EPLRS has nothing to do with AM/FM/UHF radios. Its a system on its own. In case of A-10C that sistem is called SADL

 

Correct in regards to the VHF AM, VHF FM and UHF radios not being required, but I think it would have been potentially less confusing if you'd called the system by the name that's used in the cockpit, which is JTRS (Joint Tactical Radio System), even though the system as such is indeed called SADL (Situational Awareness Datalink). :smartass:

[Yurgon]

I have but I can't seem to rap my head around this AoA stuff. Have also read a lot of outside info

 

Have you read "Stick and Rudder" by Wolfgang Langewiesche yet? He takes a lot of time to describe the AoA in much detail, because it's such an important concept for aviators!

 

Unless my memory fails me, it's really simple:

 

The Angle of Attack is the angle at which the air meets the wing.

 

Gliptal had an excellent example: Fly level (TVV on the 0 degree line on the HUD, VVI showing no climb and no descent) and then accelerate and decelerate while keeping the aircraft flying level. You'll easily notice how the amount of back pressure you need to pull on the stick changes with speed - and the AoA changes along with it. Make sure to also watch the AoA gauge and see how it shows a high AoA during slow and level flight (let's say 140 KIAS on an empty jet), and a low AoA during fast and level flight (let's say 280 KIAS with the same jet).

 

(When I say level flight, I mean "at a fixed altitude"; I do *not* mean "parallel to the horizon". Depending on your speed, these two might be mutually exclusive, which is the whole point really ;).)

 

Basically, the only way to stall an aicraft's wings is to pull heavily on the stick.

 

And such a strong pull back on the stick is very obviously what Ralfi did in the steep banked turn in order to maintain altitude. It's possible that as the warning tone came on he released the back pressure just a little bit. If you fly the A-10 long enough, you won't even have to think about it; you can actually ride the steady tone quite well, and it is possible to also ride the chopped tone without stalling the aircraft, but that requires a lot of training (and from what I've heard, this is a bit different with the real aircraft, because AFAIK it's easier to ride the chopped tone in it than it is for us in DCS).

[twistking]

As far as I know, but don't quote me on this, airports tend to use the UHF band. Since DCS allows to contact the tower on all the frequency bands that the DCS aircraft use, if your aircraft has a UHF radio, I'd contact the tower on this one just for immersion, but in terms of gameplay it doesn't matter at all which one you use.

 

cool thanks again, yurgon. (for learning the a-10c i use my custom built mission, because there i can easily scale difficulty, however there are so many little things you need to know to set it up somewhat realistically, that would be set up for you, when flying a pre-built mission/campaign:) )

 

another quick question. am i right in my assumption, that in reality all air assets that take part in one mission, would share one frequency and also every "flight" would have one frequency of their own. additionaly there would be seperate frequencies for JTAC, ATC and "special" frequencies.

 

so a radio set-up for an a-10c might look like this: (?)

VHF AM: JTAC

UHF: flight/wingman and ATC

VHF FM: all air assets and mission control etc.

 

i could not find anything on the technical advantages and disadvantages of the different frequecy bands. even if not simulated in DCS, i am interested, if certain band are more suited for certain conditions in reality. for example a JTAC in a valley on the ground might find it beneficial to use a radio that "bends" over the mountain tops etc. ...

[Yurgon]

cool thanks again, yurgon.

 

Always glad if I can help a fellow simmer. :thumbup:

 

(for learning the a-10c i use my custom built mission, because there i can easily scale difficulty, however there are so many little things you need to know to set it up somewhat realistically, that would be set up for you, when flying a pre-built mission/campaign:) )

 

Yeah, that's true.

 

Just be aware that not all missions are set up at a constant high rate of realism. Many missions take a lot of liberties, and even the relatively realistic ones are mostly taking ideas and concepts of stuff that happens in real life and incorporate it in a environment that focuses on just a portion out of the bigger picture.

 

For example, let's just look at the next question:

 

am i right in my assumption, that in reality all air assets that take part in one mission, would share one frequency and also every "flight" would have one frequency of their own.

 

Ideally, yes.

 

Just these days I'm reading the two books "A-10 Thunderbolt II Units of Operation Enduring Freedom" (2002-2007 and 2008-2014) about A-10s in Afghanistan, and these are full of stories and anecdotes. Apparently, often times A-10 pilots didn't even know about other aircraft in the area, and they had to radio around in order to get their freqs and deconflict all the aircraft.

 

The same was often true of ground units. Some would be within their AO without them even knowing about them.

 

So, ideally there should be a common freq, an intra-flight freq and one or more freqs on which to talk to specific units, e.g. JTACs. But in reality, it doesn't always work like this, and of course sometimes radios just fail, but the mission needs to be conducted despite the failure, and so the wingman might have to act as relay between flight lead and JTAC.

 

I'd be interested to know about the practical differences between the 3 radio sets as well. I heard recently that in terms of range and clarity, there's very little difference, because the frequency bands are actually quite close together. Range and quality depend more on a radio's transmit power than on the freq. But like I said, it would be cool to hear more about this from someone with practical experience, which I don't have at all.

[shagrat]

(...)

I'd be interested to know about the practical differences between the 3 radio sets as well. I heard recently that in terms of range and clarity, there's very little difference, because the frequency bands are actually quite close together. Range and quality depend more on a radio's transmit power than on the freq. But like I said, it would be cool to hear more about this from someone with practical experience, which I don't have at all.

Maybe a quick copy and paste about some stuff I researched for "voice over" recording...

I am no subject matter expert, but there is a lot of useful information out there.

 

Let's see the basic differences between radio types and what their audio limitations typically are.

Yeah, I know... bear with me.:smartass:

 

The Radios

 

VHF AM (aka Victor, or only AM) - Amplitude Modulation radio with a very good range coverage, that is most common in aviation, used by ATC, to coordinate multiple flights, but also other ground forces, JTACS/AFACS and what not, depending on available radios.

Sacrificing audio quality for range. Often transmission has interference from weather, lightning, electric fields, even motor/starters etc.

Your standard for ATC, AWACS, JSTARS or ABCCC.

 

VHF FM (aka Fox Mike, or FM) - Frequency Modulation radio with shorter range, yet improved audio quality, as it can much better filter distortion. Typically used by ground forces (JTAC/Unit Commanders, forward observers).

Your preference for simulating comms from ground forces.

 

 

UHF AM (aka Uniform, or UHF) - Amplitude Modulation radio with very short bandwidth, basically "line-of-sight" communications only. Any mountain or larger building, metal constructions etc. will block transmission. Typically used for comms between aircraft in the same flight, but also in some Personal Role Radios (PRR)/MBITR or Portable Radios on unit level, with modern ones being multiband and data capapble.

Personal Radio's ranges are really short. PRRs often cover just some 500m. In general use the "sightline" as a rule of thumbs (you can't see the plane approaching from the ground, due to terrain or buildings in DCS? No UHF comms!)

 

Sources and background info:

VHF AM vs. FM (plus nice video): http://www.diffen.com/difference/AM_vs_FM

AN/PRC-77 Vietnam era comm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/PRC-77_Portable_Transceiver

Typical 80ies AN/PRC-113 (): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/PRC-113

Modern SINCGARS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SINCGARS

and AN/PRC-150 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/PRC-150 or Bowman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowman_(communications_system)#VHF_radios

 

The Microphone, Speaker or Handset

 

Typically the guy on the other end speaks into a microphone. Often it is part of a military handset or a tactical headset worn under the helmet. This adds two components to the audio, the microphone and the speaker.

Most military handsets/microphones share a typical frequency response between 300 to 3.500 Hz, which is a major factor in the overall frequency envelope, we want to achieve.

Handset earpieces usually have a matching frequency range from 20 to 3500 Hz, Speakers used in command facilities or vehicles, 300-7000 Hz.

As we typically simulate comms heard over the earpieces of our flight helmets or a headset, we focus on the 300-3500 Hz Frequency response.

 

Sources and background info:

Ground forces, handset characteristics: http://www.milspec.ca/radaccs/raccspec.html

 

By now you may ask yourself what all this background info is good for?

 

It helps to put the comm chatter into perspective on the battlefield.

 

Let's have a look at one or two examples:

 

At the begin of a 50ies Vietnam era CASEVAC mission you want a flight of Hueys to receive a communication from a battalion CO back at the camp. He got a transmission from one of his platoon commanders patroling a suppposed frontline perimeter and was ambushed.

Shortly after take-off you are contacted by the CO with updated coordinates of a potential extraction zone and sitrep.

 

Consider the following:

- where is the CO's camp relative to your position, especially the distance?

- what kind of weather is set in the mission? (rain, thunderstorms, especially lightning)

- what does the situation on the point of the communication look like? What kind of radio(s) is/are likely available to the CO?

 

So mostly transmission quality, reach and availability are the major factor to decide on Comms.

Modern digital radios are far better, but not necessarily immune to problems, failures and even have introduced new issues, like the encryption keys that need to be updated regularly in theater. ;)

 

Ah, about UHF comms for ATC, on the airfield, due to tower elevation, near limitless powersupply and modern equipment, this has replaced VHF AM.

In the 50ies and 60ies especially, ATC used VHF AM to cover a larger area.

 

With FM plus powerful transmitter plus a power socket in the wall, range isn't an issue anymore.

For a vehicle or plane, battery weight, power consumption and antenna construction are still limiting factors.

And the line of sight issue with the earth curvature.

Edited December 12, 2016 by shagrat

[Yurgon]

Yeah, I know... bear with me.:smartass:

 

LOL. :D

 

Good info, thanks! :thumbup:

 

Just one thing:

 

UHF FM (aka Uniform, or UHF) - Amplitude Modulation radio [...]

 

Which one is it: UHF FM (Frequency Modulation) or UHF AM (Amplitude Modulation)?

 

Took a quick look around the manual, but that didn't provide any insight that I could find.

[shagrat]

LOL. :D

 

Good info, thanks!

 

Just one thing:

 

 

 

Which one is it: UHF FM (Frequency Modulation) or UHF AM (Amplitude Modulation)?

 

Took a quick look around the manual, but that didn't provide any insight that I could find.

Not 100% sure, but it should be UHF AM.

 

Quick search on radio airbands brought up this, which is in line with the other sources.

(...)

Military aircraft also use a dedicated UHF-AM band from 225.0–399.95 MHz for air-to-air and air-to-ground, including air traffic control communication. This band has a designated emergency and guard channel of 243.0 MHz.[2][8]

(...)

 

So I need to correct the post to UHF AM... For military planes that is.

[shagrat]

Update: found it... http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/an_arc164.htm

[tdyrsmid]

Noob just finished the A-10C training modules....what's next?

 

Even though I have just completed the built-in training modules, I still feel pretty ill-equipped and in need of more training/practice.

 

I'm at the "I don't know what I don't know" phase, so I welcome suggestions on how best to further my skills.

 

Thanks!

[Eddie]

On the radio usage.

 

VHF/AM (Victor) - Flight commd

UHF/AM (Uniform) - ATC, AWACS/other Tac C2, other flights in the package/airspace. And everything else.

VHF/FM (Fox Mike) - JTAC/Flight comms (often used for Flight comms when not needed for JTAC etc.)

[twistking]

wow. fantastic info. highly appreciated!

 

one thing, i am still unsure of: the buttons on the HOTAS for the different radios, which open the comms-menü in the simulaton; in reality these buttons would be "push to talk", yes?

 

On the radio usage.

VHF/AM (Victor) - Flight commd

"flight commd" would mean sth. like the headquater / main command that coordiantes everything, or the commander of the flight (group of aircrafts)?

sorry, i'm new to combat flight sims and many things are new for me:)

[twistking]

I'm at the "I don't know what I don't know" phase, so I welcome suggestions on how best to further my skills.

 

if you haven't already, i would suggest to watch some youtube-videos. even if they cover aspects you already think you know, often they give additional advice and show some actual manouvering and weapon employment that you could use as a "benchmark" for your own flying.

i liked the "on the range" series by bunyap sims:

https://www.youtube.com/user/4023446/search?query=a-10c+on+the+range

 

also, if you start flying actual missions, you will probably notice in which areas you are still lacking and could go from there by watching videos or reading the manual on the topic....

i enjoy fiddling around in the editor, so i made my own mission, which has a bit of everything and is actually quite difficult, but since i know exactly whats going on, i can focus easily on what I'm doing because there is little chance of unpleasant surprises;) if you don't like fiddling with the editor i would suggest to download some quality missions and go from there...

Edited December 12, 2016 by twistking

[Eddie]

wow. fantastic info. highly appreciated!

 

one thing, i am still unsure of: the buttons on the HOTAS for the different radios, which open the comms-menü in the simulaton; in reality these buttons would be "push to talk", yes?

 

 

"flight commd" would mean sth. like the headquater / main command that coordiantes everything, or the commander of the flight (group of aircrafts)?

sorry, i'm new to combat flight sims and many things are new for me:)

 

Typo, should read Flight comms. The A-10 is unusual in having three radios, so it's not uncommon to have one not being actively used. Yes the radio buttons are PTTs.

[Nu-NRG]

wow. fantastic info. highly appreciated!

 

one thing, i am still unsure of: the buttons on the HOTAS for the different radios, which open the comms-menü in the simulaton; in reality these buttons would be "push to talk", yes?

 

 

"flight commd" would mean sth. like the headquater / main command that coordiantes everything, or the commander of the flight (group of aircrafts)?

sorry, i'm new to combat flight sims and many things are new for me:)

It is the flight comms. Lead and wingman. Mid radio is, amongst other, C2

[tdyrsmid]

Thanks very much for that!

[Airwolf466]

Excuse the newb question...Just setting up my Saitek x-65. I'm very familiar with SST, and have looked at the ingame setup.

Which would the Group recommend?

[twistking]

Excuse the newb question...Just setting up my Saitek x-65. I'm very familiar with SST, and have looked at the ingame setup.

Which would the Group recommend?

 

from my limited experience, i would go with the ingame setup, as it is very powerful and for me it seems to be more clear to just use that one "instance" of mapping.

if you are new to dcs, don't forget, that before you can use a joystick button as modifier, you first have to define said button as a modifier. (there is a little modifier panel in the controls somewhere)

 

that said, i use the ingame setup for mapping my thrustmaster fcs hotas, while i know that others are happy with using "external" mapping/profiles. :joystick: