DCS A-10C QUESTIONS

[FalconPlot16]

Can I use GBU12 instead GBU38 on bunkers ? I have poor visibility and bunkers to deal with...

 

if markpoints are placed carefully why not you can bomb with cordinates too not only tgp

[Donut]

what would you take to destroy bunkers at night (early morning) in the rain and low based clouds?

 

A bunker is a fixed target and in your situation with poor weather, I believe a GBU-31 would be best. Since the location of the bunker is fixed, you can best plan for the attack in the mission editor by placing a waypoint right on top of the bunker. Zoom all the way into the map so you can set the waypoint precisely onto the location of the bunker. Flying the mission, set the HUD as SOI and the steerpoint (the waypoint created in the mission editor) as the SPI. Use CCRP mode and bombs away!

Edited October 2, 2016 by =BJM=

[Yurgon]

if markpoints are placed carefully why not you can bomb with cordinates too not only tgp

 

Careful with GBU-12, though: If you don't provide terminal guidance by laser, you need to adjust the profile so that the bomb gets released with a ballistic flight path calculated by the aircraft. More info: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2701593&postcount=97

 

Since the location of the bunker is fixed, you can best plan for the attack in the mission editor my placing a waypoint right on top of the bunker.

 

Good idea! Just be aware that MAS was talking about a campaign mission, where the flight plan is usually pre-defined by the campaign author. In a well designed mission, targets won't be visible in the Mission Planner unless it makes sense, e.g. after they've been spotted by ground troops who then transmitted the exact location to the mission planning cell which then incorporated this information into the flight plan and briefing (what I mean to say is: mission designers should set all enemy units to invisible on the map, unless it makes sense to show them). :smartass:

[Vitormouraa]

There are some really nice posts here!

 

I would like to say what I think.

 

Well, if DCS was real life, we would be using LGBs against bunkers, seeing the LGBs (normally) have a better penetration than the regular JDAMs , the GBU-31 and 38 are known as LDGP (low drag general purpose) i.e you can use it against infantry, tanks, artillery or whatever you want, the LGBs are a bit more specific, they have a very nice precision, penetration, and you can use it against moving targets, but you do need to have the visual of the target, if you don't, you can't really use LGBs, and also LGBs require a constant laser designation until the impact, unless you have a buddy lasing.

 

But as you said, you don't have a very good visibility, and probably there is more than one bunker. So the best option would be the JDAMs for sure, knowing the penetration factor won't matter because the DCS uses a very basic damage model (ground units, more specifically life bar), and also you can drop as many bombs as you can onto different targets, example, four bombs onto four different targets, so if you have the bunkers close to each other, you can fly around, creating the markpoints (by the way, you need to create carefully, if you miss the TGP by a few millimeters it may result in 10 or more meters away from the target, that's very important).

 

Other reason to use JDAMs, as you drop the bombs, you don't need to designate them and stay in a pontential dangerous airspace, you drop them and get out of the airspace!

 

Also JDAMs don't care about visibility or weather, basically they will work in any weather.

 

Those are my thoughts.. I hope it helps! :D

 

BTW, in real life, probably the JDAMs would do NOTHING to the bunkers! (I guess - of course depending on the thickness!).

Edited October 3, 2016 by Vitormouraa

[Gliptal]

JDAMs are one of the less realistic aspect in the module, along with the Link16 stuff. There was a nice post about their real capabilities somewhere, I'll try and find it later.

[Mike Busutil]

[sobek]

Link16

 

SADL, the A-10C doesn't use Link16.

[Gliptal]

Isn't Link16 a protocol SADL is built upon?

[sobek]

SADL builds on EPLRS. You can not directly communicate with Link16 equipped aircraft.

[Gliptal]

SADL builds on EPLRS. You can not directly communicate with Link16 equipped aircraft.

Oh OK, my mistake.

[shagrat]

There are some really nice posts here!

 

I would like to say what I think.

 

Well, if DCS was real life, we would be using LGBs against bunkers, seeing the LGBs (normally) have a better penetration than the regular JDAMs , the GBU-31 and 38 are known as LDGP (low drag general purpose) i.e you can use it against infantry, tanks, artillery or whatever you want, the LGBs are a bit more specific, they have a very nice precision, penetration, and you can use it against moving targets, but you do need to have the visual of the target, if you don't, you can't really use LGBs, and also LGBs require a constant laser designation until the impact, unless you have a buddy lasing.

As far as I know, the GBU-12 and GBU-38 are both a Mk.82 LDGP bomb fitted with guidance kits. Same for GBU-10 and GBU-31 based on the Mk.84.

 

The difference between LGB and JDAM is the type of guidance kit.

 

The LGB tracks a laser for guidance, the JDAM drops onto a GPS coordinate using GPS and INS guidance.

As far as I'm aware the kinetic effect, destruction and blast pattern of the Mk.82/84 is not changed by the guidance kit, so I don't see any obvious difference in the penetration here.

 

If any, the LGB should be worse, as it uses energy from the ballistic flight to track the laser designation. So worst case it needs to "leap" after a moving target, losing some kinetic energy to maneuvering...

 

And if your drop is accurate enough, you just need a 4-8 sec laser designation to guide the LGB on course and the rest is ballistic fall, still very precise against an immobile target.

 

For penetration of bunkers etc. a BLU-109 or the new AUP instead of the Mk.84 iron bomb would be cool, but this isn't modeled in DCS. :(

[Gliptal]

Also, the LGBs use bang-bang guidance, and I think JDAMs have a more efficient guiding method.

 

Here is the quote from Eddie about how JDAMs really work I mentioned:

A bit of JDAM background for anyone who's interested. Hopefully it'll illustrate how different the DCS JDAM and real JDAM are.

 

JDAM employment uses what is known as a LAR (Launch Acceptability Region), not max/min range. The LAR is entirely dynamic and varies depending on things such as launch aircraft speed, altitude, heading, winds, desired impact heading, desired impact angle, and desired impact speed.

 

The LAR surrounds the target and is essentially a circle in which if the weapon is released under the current flight conditions it will be able to hit the target with a minim impact angle of 35 degrees and a minimum impact speed of 300 ft/sec. Being in the LAR doesn't imply that the weapon can meet any specific chosen impact parameters.

 

You then have a smaller area of sky within the LAR in which releasing the weapon will enable it to satisfy any chosen impact parameters. Parameters that can be specified include impact heading, impact angle, and impact speed. If for any reason the weapon determines it cannot hit the target and meet the specified parameters it will sacrifice impact speed in the first instance, followed by impact angle and heading.

 

The release aircraft also doesn't need to be pointing at the target, you can release a JDAM on a target 90 degrees off your nose if you want to, you'll just see a significant reduction in range. You can release a JDAM at any airspeed between 165 knots and mach 1.5 depending on the variant, with it being recommended to release at as high and altitude and airspeed as the tactical situation will allow. Winds are taken into account by the launch aircraft when determining the LAR.

 

After release the weapon performs a clearing manoeuvre to ensure safe separation from the launch aircraft and then begins flying to the desired impact position. For approx. the first 10 seconds of flight a JDAM is running purely on INS guidance and after that time and as it begins to acquire GPS satellites its accuracy increases, with the CEP dropping to 15 metres after about 30 seconds of flight. If the GPS system is being jammed the weapon will guide to target using INS only. In the last second before impact the weapon reduces its angle of attack to zero.

 

While you can release a JDAM using a dive or a loft, doing so doesn't really offer any big advantages and in most cases actually reduces range.

 

There are several other features as well such as pattern releases, pre-plan targets, and others. Some stuff is used by the A-10C, some stuff isn't.

 

But as far as DCS goes, not even the cockpit symbology matches the real thing. JDAM is one of the areas where DCS differs most from reality, in fact aside from countermeasures, RWR, & MWS, I'd say it's the most different.

[nomdeplume]

Caveat: It's been over a year since I tested it so things might have changed, but at least back then the JDAMs did far less damage than LGBs and free-fall bombs. The reason is because their flight modeling is different and they lose a lot of speed during fall. The impact speed has a significant effect on the amount of damage done.

 

During my tests I found the Mk-84/GBU-10 would consistently do around 2,500 points of damage to hardened structures (I was using a command centre and ammo depot to test). The GBU-31 would do about 850.

 

The bunkers have 10,000 life to start with it, so to reliably destroy them took 5 hits from Mk-84/GBU-10, but around 12 GBU-31s.

[sobek]

The impact speed has a significant effect on the amount of damage done.

 

Never heard of that.

 

My assumption is that since there is no fragmentation damage, the frag bombs need a lot more damage for a realistic area of effect. This leads to unrealistic performance with regards to hardened targets.

[shagrat]

Caveat: It's been over a year since I tested it so things might have changed, but at least back then the JDAMs did far less damage than LGBs and free-fall bombs. The reason is because their flight modeling is different and they lose a lot of speed during fall. The impact speed has a significant effect on the amount of damage done.

 

During my tests I found the Mk-84/GBU-10 would consistently do around 2,500 points of damage to hardened structures (I was using a command centre and ammo depot to test). The GBU-31 would do about 850.

 

The bunkers have 10,000 life to start with it, so to reliably destroy them took 5 hits from Mk-84/GBU-10, but around 12 GBU-31s.

 

If that is true, there seems to be a "bug" with the GBU-31's blast damage. I know ED adjusted blast damage to better reflect the missing frag damage, maybe they missed the JDAMs?

:huh:

[Vitormouraa]

Are the newer a10c models fitted with colour TGP irl ? I like the way it looks:

 

 

That's a mod..

[Gliptal]

Yes I know it's a mod, my questions was are the actual a10c's fitted with colour tgp's and mav's.

I don't think so, no. I recall seeing TGP footage about a year ago of A-10Cs attacking ISIS' logistic trucks, and it was b/w.

 

Besides, I'm not at all sure, but b/w might make it easier for algorithms and humans alike to spot small objects.

 

EDIT: Found it:

 

 

Notice the sexy af SPI cakes visible in the TGP.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Gliptal

[Pocket Sized]

Yes I know it's a mod, my questions was are the actual a10c's fitted with colour tgp's and mav's.

 

IIRC the newer TGP's can display color in CCD (non-thermal) mode.

 

No point in color mavericks, seeing as they aren't used for finding targets.

[MRaza]

I'm a new player, dont have A10C yet but have read the manual quite a bit. My question is:

 

What is the purpose of the course arrow on the HSI and when should it be used? I know that if you are doing an ILS landing on say, runway 31, then your course arrow should be set to 310. But what is the point of this? Do I need to adjust the course arrow every time I switch steerpoints?

[shagrat]

I'm a new player, dont have A10C yet but have read the manual quite a bit. My question is:

 

What is the purpose of the course arrow on the HSI and when should it be used? I know that if you are doing an ILS landing on say, runway 31, then your course arrow should be set to 310. But what is the point of this? Do I need to adjust the course arrow every time I switch steerpoints?

Not necessarily, but if you're TAD or other fancy equipment is down you can use the course arrow plus the course deviation lines to monitor your drift, when crosswinds affect your plane.

Also you want to set the course arrow to runway heading for night or IFR approaches in bad weather... :)

[Gliptal]

I also use the needle to set up my attack run.

[Corbett1403]

I'm a new player, dont have A10C yet but have read the manual quite a bit. My question is:

 

What is the purpose of the course arrow on the HSI and when should it be used? I know that if you are doing an ILS landing on say, runway 31, then your course arrow should be set to 310. But what is the point of this? Do I need to adjust the course arrow every time I switch steerpoints?

 

 

 

Also serves a Purpose of knowing you are landing on the correct end of a runway

[ex81]

Yep, and if the taxilights are red and moving....... It`s a Highway !

[MRaza]

I'm going to be getting my new PC in about a week or so thx to cichlidfan. I've read the manual quite a bit and watched lots of tutorials.

 

My question is: Where do I start? There's so many parts to this plane that it's overwhelming. I've come up with a list of things to learn, but what should I add to it?

 

Start-Up

Weapon Employment

Radios

CDU/Navigation

Visual Landing

ILS

TACAN

Shut-Down

[Yurgon]

My question is: Where do I start? There's so many parts to this plane that it's overwhelming. I've come up with a list of things to learn, but what should I add to it?

 

Some further topics to consider:

- Formation flying, different types of formation (works best in MP)

- Aerial refueling

- Emergency procedures (Engine failure, engine restart, single engine operation, flameout landing, hydraulics failure, electrics failure, avionics failure)

- Understanding MGRS

- Creating waypoints on the fly (Lat/Long, MGRS, Offset), creating flight plans

- Night time flying, bad weather flying (easily combined with TACAN and ILS)

- SOI/SPI, Sensors, TGP, employment without TGP, using Mav as "poor man's TGP"

- Datalink/SADL

- Weapon Employment

-- Gun

-- Unguided weapons (bombs, rockets)

-- Guided weapons

---- Laser guided (GBU-12 family)

------ Buddy lasing via wingman and JTAC

---- GPS-Guided (GBU-38 family, CBU-105 family)

---- TV/IR guided (Maverick) (Laser guided Maverick not available in DCS)

-- Air-to-air missiles, air-to-air gun

- BFM, air-to-air employment

- Aerobatics

- Working with JTACs, 9-line

- Radio comms/brevity (works best with other humans in MP)

 

Personally, I'm kind of the lone wolf type of player. I've learned a whole lot about the A-10C on my own by watching videos, reading the manual, reading the forums and asking questions.

 

I recently joined a newly formed squad and my learning experience has sped up tremendously (and I started learning and flying the aircraft all the way back when it was in public Beta :smartass:); flying together with like-minded players really is the best thing you can do in DCS. I've met great people from all over the globe. This is a great community and many people are willing to share their knowledge with newcomers, give first hand advice, teach important lessons and concepts, clear up misconceptions and correct mistakes and errors before they develop into really bad habits.

 

I guess the single most important piece of advice is that the learning never ends. Always keep an open mind and be ready to learn new stuff every day. :thumbup: