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Poor FPS in LOFC 2


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Hi,

 

I'm getting very low FPS on LOFC 2, sometimes as low as 12 or 13 and a max of 20-25 :(. I think its because of my graphics card, a 512MB nvidia 8400GS, which is pretty old. is it the graphics card or something in my system specs.

My Specs are:

AMD Athlon X2 5000+ 2.6Ghz,

ASUS MN268AM motherboard,

nvidia 512MB Geforce 8400GS,

2GB DDR2 RAM @800Mhz.

250GB HDD,

19" monitor running at 1440x900@60hz.

 

if its the graphics card what card should i buy? I'm limited on budget, so anything from $100-$150 would be fine. Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Glen.

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Long thread, but there are tips (including 100 dollar recommendations from myself) in there to someone in a similar situation to yours: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=54814

 

Protos, your recommendations are overkill. By the that point you are already (and for a long time) able to run the simulator at 16x AA and 16x AF with cheaper equipment. He also gets even more margins due to the low screen resolution. If he goes to 200 dollars for the GPU he'll be way past the point where his CPU, limited RAM and (I assume) Windows XP becomes the new bottlenecks.


Edited by EtherealN
Adding response to Protos

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Dude, did you see the place where he said he is on a limited budget? ;)

 

There are such things as "students", "unemployed", and "retirees" for whom money is extremely scarce. Some of us are fortunate enough to purchase practically any computer equipment we want, but many people are not so fortunate and we should tailor our advice to fit their situation, not trick them into spending more than they have to on what is, effectively, just an entertainment product. There is a very big difference between "Card X would be better for your money" and "Card Y would be better for my money", and anyone giving other people advice on things that cost money should keep this in mind. Especially when it comes to FC2/DCS and graphics cards. This is not Crysis we are talking about and you really do not need much at all in GPU power to run it effectively. Why make him spend extra on a card that due to his computer's processor limitations will end up running at only 60% capacity while playing FC2? Because YOUR processor allows you enough CPU headroom to use the next 40%?

 

And, as I said, the difference between the 100 dollar cards I have looked at and the 200 dollar cards is: he might be able to go from 4x AA and 4xAF to 16x AA and 16x AF, although at that resolution I'd expect him to do 8x MSAA with a 100 dollar card.

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Because I have a limited budget as well I like to buy one part at a time. It takes longer, but you can look for deals in places like Newegg. I do not think you would get a grate FPS increase with a better video card only. If I was you, I would continue saving an improve your whole computer one part at a time.

 

If you choose to update video card first, I would go with ATI 5xxx/4xxx series. You can get several versions for under 200. I get anywhere from 20 to 45 FPS depending if I'm online or playing single player. I like ATI because it has lower power requirements than some of the newer Nvidia cards and they run normally cooler. In my opinion you would get more out of better CPU or bigger faster ram, but that would require a bigger update ( Mother board, CPU, Ram, etc)

 

my specs are

Q6600 Over clocked (OC) to 3.2GHz at 1.3 volts, x9

4 Gigs of DDR2 at 890MHz

ATI 4850 with 1Gig of memory normally running at 625 MHz/ memory at 993MHz but I overclocked when playing to 665/ 1055 and I still get those low FPS with high setting in multiplayer.


Edited by mvsgas

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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A really, really good bang for the buck card is the one i'm currently using is the evga Nvidia 9800GTX+. I bought it at Newegg.com for $129.99 and recently it was on sale for $99.99 and is still a solid card. The card currently has a $30 off mfg. rebate so the card is only $104.99 after rebate. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130339&cm_re=9800gtx%2b-_-14-130-339-_-Product

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With the limited budget I would decrease my graphics settings in the game to get better FPS and save money until I had enough to buy a new modo, CPU, and GPU based on this specs. I had a Athlon X2 CPU with a 7900GT card. I upgraded to the 9800GX2 and didn't see any FPS increase at all. Once I upgraded the CPU the FPS jumped big time.

 

Save yourself the frustration of spending a little $ and seeing no increase in performance. Save up until you can replace all of it. You'll be happier in the long run.

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With the limited budget I would decrease my graphics settings in the game to get better FPS and save money until I had enough to buy a new modo, CPU, and GPU based on this specs. I had a Athlon X2 CPU with a 7900GT card. I upgraded to the 9800GX2 and didn't see any FPS increase at all. Once I upgraded the CPU the FPS jumped big time.

 

Save yourself the frustration of spending a little $ and seeing no increase in performance. Save up until you can replace all of it. You'll be happier in the long run.

 

IINM aren't the Nvidia cards CPU clock dependent? I have a E6750 that I just overclocked to 3.00ghz and still testing it just to make sure it doesn't fry LOL.

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KungFu, I strongly advice you to be extremely careful with your sense of humour in the future.

 

Also, he has an 8400 GS. The 7900GT is actually stronger, significantly, than his. And by significantly I mean several times the relevant processing power. 4x Pixel throughput, 3x Texel throughput, 6.5 times the memory bandwidth. Should I continue? Please please please can people make sure they know the hardware before they start giving advice to people who are on tight budgets? You are advicing people on what is for them a major purchase. Please think and do some research first. If you only have your gut, stop.

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IINM aren't the Nvidia cards CPU clock dependent? I have a E6750 that I just overclocked to 3.00ghz and still testing it just to make sure it doesn't fry LOL.

 

Not sure what you mean here. My own experiments on my home machine I'll list in the link below:

OC experiment

 

My own conclusion from that run of tests was that the FSB was getting choked, which should be independent of card maker. CPU clock should not affect GPU processing except in extreme conditions. (EDIT: Some driver effects can be detected though, I guess, but nVidia are generally better at drivers atm while ATi are better at the hardware.)


Edited by EtherealN

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Glen, from my experience stay away from the campaign missions. I guess we're in pretty much the same situation so reading that topic Ethereal posted is a good idea. While waiting for better hardware like me, I would advise making fun missions in the editor and playing online. Hope you get better stuff soon!

Oh, and trust everything EtherealN says. He knows stuff good.:)


Edited by Sel94
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Bah, not sure about "everything" - doing your own research is always a virtue, but obviously it can be hard for those who do not have a job that (mostly) allows them to spend whole weekdays at the computer, not to forget the inclination to be a total nerd. :P

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Not sure what you mean here. My own experiments on my home machine I'll list in the link below:

OC experiment

 

My own conclusion from that run of tests was that the FSB was getting choked, which should be independent of card maker. CPU clock should not affect GPU processing except in extreme conditions. (EDIT: Some driver effects can be detected though, I guess, but nVidia are generally better at drivers atm while ATi are better at the hardware.)

 

Oh, what I was referring to is that in the past some cards were CPU clock dependent, the faster the CPU clock speed the faster the video card performed. But i'm going back to the 3Dfx/Riva cards back in the late 90's. I'm not sure if that applies to it today which is why I posed it as a question. :thumbup:

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Bah, not sure about "everything" - doing your own research is always a virtue, but obviously it can be hard for those who do not have a job that (mostly) allows them to spend whole weekdays at the computer, not to forget the inclination to be a total nerd. :P

 

EtherealN, you're using the CPU I was thinking of upgrading to. I was pondering whether to get the E8500 or E8600. It's $100 difference between the two. I'm still not sold on Quad Core CPU's just yet for gaming. Most developers are still coming to grips with dual cord CPU's.

 

What do you suggest????

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I'd say the basic idea still applies, but not to the extent that it is likely to become a bottleneck. As a theoretical scenario it probably still holds true, but it would require very specific assumptions as far as I know.

 

EDIT: Also, I still have my Voodoo 2 somewhere... :D

 

EDIT2: Regarding C2D's, get the 8500. Price diff between 8400 and 8500 is miniscule, but the step to 8600 isn't. However, it's the same silicon, just binned differently and with a different multiplier soldered onto it. As long as your motherboard is good enough they'll both top out at the same overclock speed.

 

However, if you are in the market for a new motherboard as well, get an 1156 mobo and an i3. the i3 is cheaper than the C2D's (at least here) but performs and overclocks better. Indeed, at the prices at the stores I use to source my stuff I could purchase an i3 as well as a good motherboard and only narrowly go above the price of a C2D.

 

Obviously though, you might end up having to spend more money on new RAM in that case, which might factor in.


Edited by EtherealN

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I'd say the basic idea still applies, but not to the extent that it is likely to become a bottleneck. As a theoretical scenario it probably still holds true, but it would require very specific assumptions as far as I know.

 

EDIT: Also, I still have my Voodoo 2 somewhere... :D

 

That's the card I was thinking of. :D

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EDIT2: Regarding C2D's, get the 8500. Price diff between 8400 and 8500 is miniscule, but the step to 8600 isn't. However, it's the same silicon, just binned differently and with a different multiplier soldered onto it. As long as your motherboard is good enough they'll both top out at the same overclock speed.

 

However, if you are in the market for a new motherboard as well, get an 1156 mobo and an i3. the i3 is cheaper than the C2D's (at least here) but performs and overclocks better. Indeed, at the prices at the stores I use to source my stuff I could purchase an i3 as well as a good motherboard and only narrowly go above the price of a C2D.

 

Obviously though, you might end up having to spend more money on new RAM in that case, which might factor in.

 

Thanks m8, money is not a problem except I don't want to buy something that devs are not going to take advantage of and that may make my games play worse. I know the E8600 has a 10x multiplier though i'm not sure if the E8500 is the same.

 

My E6750 has a 8x mult and with a stock fan it's running @ 3.00ghz and max temps are 65c and it idles @ 49c. Not too bad for a 65nm chip. :)

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Yeah, in the case of the Voodoo generations and similar cards, this was before programmable shaders and such. The cards themselves were still basically clockwork machines that took input from the CPU, ran it through the clockwork and ran an output.

 

The way GPUs operate and interact with other components has changed a lot since then (the "revolution" happened around the GeForce 8 generation and equivalent ATi cards, though there were semi-programmable stuff done before that as early as the GeForce 6 generation and ATi equivalents).

 

It still was the golden age though. Playing Incoming on my PII 300MHz with it's Voodoo 2 was just awesome. :D

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Yeah, in the case of the Voodoo generations and similar cards, this was before programmable shaders and such. The cards themselves were still basically clockwork machines that took input from the CPU, ran it through the clockwork and ran an output.

 

The way GPUs operate and interact with other components has changed a lot since then (the "revolution" happened around the GeForce 8 generation and equivalent ATi cards, though there were semi-programmable stuff done before that as early as the GeForce 6 generation and ATi equivalents).

 

It still was the golden age though. Playing Incoming on my PII 300MHz with it's Voodoo 2 was just awesome. :D

 

Crap wasn't Incoming a DiD game that you shot planes out of the sky with a HUGE cannon? That's what comes to mind, if so I still have a copy of Wargasm, fun fun fun game. :joystick:

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Thanks m8, money is not a problem except I don't want to buy something that devs are not going to take advantage of and that may make my games play worse. I know the E8600 has a 10x multiplier though i'm not sure if the E8500 is the same.

 

My E6750 has a 8x mult and with a stock fan it's running @ 3.00ghz and max temps are 65c and it idles @ 49c. Not too bad for a 65nm chip. :)

 

e8500 maximum multiplier is 9.5. If the motherboard is good, you'll get the same result as with the 10x multiplier, just with a slightly higher bus clock.

 

For reference, with my Zalman fan (0.7 kilos of copper :) ) my e8500 peaks at 55 degrees C when running Prime95 torture tests on both cores at 25 degree ambient temperature. Idle is around 40 degrees at the same ambient. That's at 4GHz.

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Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

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e8500 maximum multiplier is 9.5. If the motherboard is good, you'll get the same result as with the 10x multiplier, just with a slightly higher bus clock.

 

For reference, with my Zalman fan (0.7 kilos of copper :) ) my e8500 peaks at 55 degrees C when running Prime95 torture tests on both cores at 25 degree ambient temperature. Idle is around 40 degrees at the same ambient. That's at 4GHz.

 

Yeah that's what I would expect cause IINM the E8xxx CPU's are 45nm.

 

This is the motherboard i'm using: GIGABYTE GA-P35-S3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128057


Edited by Rodney
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To be honest, if you are considering another socket 775 processor like the e8500, you could just buy a new cooler first and try what your current CPU can do. Most aftermarket fans nowadays have adaptors for other sockets anyhow to allow them to be used with newer sockets.

 

You have thermal headroom in the CPU, so as long as the motherboard is up to it (and your PSU, never forget to have a good PSU so you get clean voltage) the addition of a good fan might let you bump that thing up slightly further, though I am unsure where it's overvoltage headroom ends since I never used that generation of C2D.

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Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

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To be honest, if you are considering another socket 775 processor like the e8500, you could just buy a new cooler first and try what your current CPU can do. Most aftermarket fans nowadays have adaptors for other sockets anyhow to allow them to be used with newer sockets.

 

You have thermal headroom in the CPU, so as long as the motherboard is up to it (and your PSU, never forget to have a good PSU so you get clean voltage) the addition of a good fan might let you bump that thing up slightly further, though I am unsure where it's overvoltage headroom ends since I never used that generation of C2D.

 

Good points m8 :thumbup:

 

I'm using a Lian-Li case with incredible ventilation. Oh and here's all the CPU's my motherboard supports including the Core™ 2 Extreme QX9770. I have an Enermax 500w PSU that seems to be solid, no phantom reboots or lockups.

 

http://www.gigabyte.us/Support/Motherboard/CPUSupport_Model.aspx?ProductID=2599&ver=#anchor_os

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