Megagoth1702 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 You can, as in, the sim can, but most plane builders are ignorant of the fact. I'm really curious about the new stock planes, though. I hope their system and FM fidelity matches the visual one. Like... Cmon man... I mean... Oww maaaan. How can someone be ignorant on that? I mean... It is so crucial to the aircraft's feel. Wow. ^^ Hahaha. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] System specs:2500k @ 4.6 GHz 8GB RAM HD7950 OC'd Win7 x64 Posting tracks to make your DCS better - attention bump incoming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtherealN Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 What I like is that X-Plane calculates the forces on the planes precisely. I dont think any other flight sim does that, instead they try to "simulate" a flying characteristic. Correct me if I am wrong. There's a product called "Digital Combat Simulator"... :D And btw, DCS goes beyond that. Way beyond. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentLaw Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 It is impossible to "exactly calculate the forces on an airplane" anyway. The Navier-Stokes equations governing fluid mechanics are nonlinear, so there is no analytical solution, and the best you can ever get is an approximation. Simply put, there isn't an equation that can solve an airplane. There is no need to know exactly how something works though as long as you have a technique that gets you "close enough" to the right answer every time. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megagoth1702 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 There's a product called "Digital Combat Simulator"... :D And btw, DCS goes beyond that. Way beyond. Show me. Prove. Pictures, videos, code. All that stuff. I mean I believe you if you say it. Why would you said it if it was not true. But it's just DCS lacks a bit of "show off" that some people would like to see. :) Or maybe I just missed it all because I joined DCS with the A-10. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] System specs:2500k @ 4.6 GHz 8GB RAM HD7950 OC'd Win7 x64 Posting tracks to make your DCS better - attention bump incoming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moa Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 It is impossible to "exactly calculate the forces on an airplane" anyway. The Navier-Stokes equations governing fluid mechanics are nonlinear, so there is no analytical solution, and the best you can ever get is an approximation. Simply put, there isn't an equation that can solve an airplane. There is no need to know exactly how something works though as long as you have a technique that gets you "close enough" to the right answer every time. No big deal, non-linear or not, since you just solve the differential equations numerically. Modern computers are more than powerful enough to do this (especially in multi-threaded applications). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) No big deal, non-linear or not, since you just solve the differential equations numerically. Modern computers are more than powerful enough to do this (especially in multi-threaded applications). But Navier-Stokes hasn't been done in real time, AFAIK, at least for a PC sim. I don't think we're quite there yet. Edited November 21, 2011 by sobek Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winz Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Show me. Prove. Pictures, videos, code. All that stuff. I mean I believe you if you say it. Why would you said it if it was not true. But it's just DCS lacks a bit of "show off" that some people would like to see. :) Or maybe I just missed it all because I joined DCS with the A-10. This may be a good example xpZy4djjc2k The Valley A-10C Version Revanche for FC 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megagoth1702 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Thanks for the post! Gotta be some strong wind! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] System specs:2500k @ 4.6 GHz 8GB RAM HD7950 OC'd Win7 x64 Posting tracks to make your DCS better - attention bump incoming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted November 21, 2011 ED Team Share Posted November 21, 2011 It is impossible to "exactly calculate the forces on an airplane" anyway. The Navier-Stokes equations governing fluid mechanics are nonlinear, so there is no analytical solution, and the best you can ever get is an approximation. Simply put, there isn't an equation that can solve an airplane. There is no need to know exactly how something works though as long as you have a technique that gets you "close enough" to the right answer every time. Nobody claims that they use NSE. X-plane and AFM use the same basic fundamentals calculating AoA at elements (like blade-element method). They are different in particular - how to handle with induced velocities, Mach number changes in AD characteristics, etc. I think AFM is more versatile. And, by the way I think that BS was the first simulator (excluding some professional models, I think) that simulates each blade flapping. As well as gas-turbine true thermodynamics model. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capnsully Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Hey guys, I have most sims including a10c. Ha, I wasn't aware of the deflection issue in xplane! Fortunately, most of the good addon devs for xplane are aware of that fact, hence the handling is considerably better. Dcs have done a great job with their flight model, IMHO far better than any fsx and up there with xplane. Simon W http://www.youtube.com/user/id5556 http://www.xsimreviews.com Core i7 3770k @ 4.7; GTX670 OC; Saitek X52 Pro; keyboard; mouse; screen :prop: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moa Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) But Navier-Stokes hasn't been done in real time, AFAIK, at least for a PC sim. I don't think we're quite there yet. A full-treatment hasn't been done AFAIK, but with a couple of good tricks a very good approximation can be done (even 8 years ago). Considering no sim can accurately simulate a precise weather model (eddies, turbulence) and its effect on an aircraft we'll never get a perfect simulation of reality, this means such an approximation for fluid flow in the rest of the application is almost certainly good enough for a game. Please see: http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/stam/reality/Research/pdf/GDC03.pdf I believe some implementations are moving the calculations to the GPU, where you could do the full shizzle in real-time (especially if you have a dual-GPU card like me, which is underutilized by most applications). Edited November 23, 2011 by Moa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLronin Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 X-Plane 10 now available! http://x-plane.com [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart86pl Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 YES!!! Downloadning demo now, what a great news! [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic73792_1.gif [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Can't hurt to look at the Demo but $80 pre-order, ouch!:cry: ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 X-Plane 10 now available! http://x-plane.com Well, to be exact, the demo and the pre-order are available... :) Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKLronin Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Well, to be exact, the demo and the pre-order are available... That was the exact anouncement on Facebook. Was afraid of writing anything else :P 80 EUR is indeed pretty expensive, will see how the demo impresses me. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moa Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Wow! Love the packed carrier in the screenshots section. The flight model also runs on its own thread. I'll definitely be getting this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conure Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Hey all, Have a few questions on this and hope someone.a bit more knowledgable can help. is xplane 10 a ready to go package ala fsx, where you install it and the whole world is ready to fly in? Any idea from the demo what sort opf performance I can expect from my rig on average settings! I also presume that the stock planes will be pretty crappy, and there will be nothing of pmdg quality available in the foreseeable future?? Apologies for grammar, mobile device Con Intel i7 6700k, Asus GTX1070, 16gb DDR4 @ 3200mhz, CH Fighterstick, CH Pro Throttle, CH Pro Rudder Pedals, Samsung Evo 850 SSD @ 500GB * 2, TrackIR 5 and 27" monitor running at 2560 * 1440, Windows 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 is xplane 10 a ready to go package ala fsx, where you install it and the whole world is ready to fly in? If X-Plane 9 is anything to go by, yes, the stock scenery should be quite nice. Any idea from the demo what sort opf performance I can expect from my rig on average settings! X-Plane 9 is incredibly scalable, i guess 10 will be too.There probably will be no rig that can get close to maxing it out, but you'll have an equally hard time finding a rig that won't run it on lower settings. I also presume that the stock planes will be pretty crappy, and there will be nothing of pmdg quality available in the foreseeable future?? It seems that for this release, they have worked with some of the best plane makers of the x-plane community, e.g., Javier Rollon has made a few stock planes and if his past work is anything to go by, those should be quite good. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart86pl Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I`v go the demo, and after few h of flying I pre ordered my copy of Xplane-10. It looks, works and feels much much better than Xp9. -greatly improved flight dynamics, the planes are no longer rc toys -few new planes with full 3d interiors and many working buttons. -3d clouds and new weather. No more silly 2d bitmaps in the sky! -better looking scenery. Ground textures are not super fantastic, but roads, buildings and lights are very nice. -new ATC with nice voice acting. -self shadows on the planes (finally!), and engines that generates heat blurr effect. Those are things I`v noticed so far, but I`m sure new Xp has a lots more cool stuff. here are some pics with KC: [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic73792_1.gif [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Warrior Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Ugh, downloading the A-10 1.1.1.0 patch as well as the X-plane 10 demo? Dude, flat rate broadband connections are a clear win. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Argh, the torrent is almost as slow as the server d/l. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassata Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I`v go the demo, and after few h of flying I pre ordered my copy of Xplane-10. It looks, works and feels much much better than Xp9. -greatly improved flight dynamics, the planes are no longer rc toys -few new planes with full 3d interiors and many working buttons. -3d clouds and new weather. No more silly 2d bitmaps in the sky! -better looking scenery. Ground textures are not super fantastic, but roads, buildings and lights are very nice. -new ATC with nice voice acting. -self shadows on the planes (finally!), and engines that generates heat blurr effect. Those are things I`v noticed so far, but I`m sure new Xp has a lots more cool stuff. here are some pics with KC: Amy word on performance? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element1108 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Hey all, Have a few questions on this and hope someone.a bit more knowledgable can help. is xplane 10 a ready to go package ala fsx, where you install it and the whole world is ready to fly in? Any idea from the demo what sort opf performance I can expect from my rig on average settings! I also presume that the stock planes will be pretty crappy, and there will be nothing of pmdg quality available in the foreseeable future?? Apologies for grammar, mobile device Con You are pretty heavily invested in FSX so it might be a difficult "choice" for you regarding XPLANE 10. I am a user of both FSX and XPlane (9) haven't tried 10 yet, but the improvements sound monumental. I'm hoping it's only a matter of time before PMDG start making ad ons for XPLANE seeing as FSX is no longer being supported by microsoft, XPLANE 10 seems to be the "future" of civil flight sims. Keep a close eye on it, especially after release, I'm sure all of your questions will be answered and will give you enough confidence to make an educated choice. That blew me away when I saw it awhile ago, the roads and house detail really help fufill that illusion of flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Just tried the demo and got ridiculously bad performance for the visuals i'm seeing, i wonder what is murdering my pc like that. As per the stock planes, i'm still disappointed. :( Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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