Simpit beginings. help/thoughts needed

[Kiezer]

Thinking of Making a start on my first Simpit. My plan is to do it in stages. I.e. most used panels first.

 

The panel I would like to start / even think about is the Electrical Power Panel

 

I just would like to know if this panel is even worth making as there is no keybord combo to flick the switches.

 

As you can tell I am a compleate nub.. but an eager one.

hope some one can help / shed some light / give tips

 

cheers!

Edited October 27, 2010 by Kiezer

[pitbldr]

Hey Kiezer,

 

I know that the keyboard command list is not complete in the beta, so I'll bet good money that those switches will be added. If not, you can always use LUA with your hardware to control those switches. I know squat about LUA right now though, so someone else will need to step up.

 

I don't think that's a bad panel to start with though... it's the first one I'll be making once I have my process finalized. :D

[Kiezer]

cheers mate know I just need to work out how the heck I am gona do this :D

 

I've got SketchUp and have been playing around with it but I think some MDF mock ups will be my best bet.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Kiezer

[pitbldr]

You planning on having a fully interactive pit (working guages, LED's, etc.) or are you thinking about just having switches to reduce mouse and keyboard use?

 

I say get some cardboard and start with it. Cheaper (free?) than MDF and easier to work with to during the early design phase. :)

[Kiezer]

Its mainly goning to be to reduce mouse and keyboard use, but I still want it too look the part. I'll just have to see later on how things go and from there I will decide whether or not I go for the full thing.

[pitbldr]

Cool - keep us posted on your progress! :)

[Kiezer]

will do! :P

[Smoky]

+10000 for cardboard mockups. Makes your world a ton easier. Put the effort into refining a REALLY nice mockup....nice construction paper and that is sturdy but easy to cut and shape and draw on. Once your mockup is satisfactory you end up with a set of templates for the final parts. MUCH easier than going the other way around.

[Kiezer]

cheers guys will look into some things on friday, unfortunatly can't do much over the weekend as I have work, but I will see what I can achive.

don't suppose anyone knows the measurments for the electric power panel or what the angle it is at is? if not I will just use my eye. cheers again!

[hog_driver111th]

I actually just started doing this myself. I found (from a far earlier topic) a download for certain panel backplates and overlays. I just cut out a printout of the oxygen regulator panel and will laminate it for now. The question I have is on the backplates, the holes they show, they aren't anywhere close to the overlay. Is that normal? I'll start a cockpit build topic once I have something to show (right now I'm at work at the airport, 3 hours until my shift ends, and no planes in/outbound, hehe).

[Scudslaker]

hog driver..we´re looking forward your presentation, too.

 

nothing inbound, so you have enough time to plan the pit!)

how will you interface the buttons? if interested, i have a nice solution

 

cheers

SCUD

[Kiezer]

if this was a description for a switch would it be suitable?

 

• SWITCH, SPST, IP68
  
• Contact Configuration:SPST
  
• Switch Operation:SPST On-Off
  
• Contact Voltage AC Nom:115V
  
• Contact Voltage DC Nom.:28V
  
• Contact Current Max:16A
  
• Terminal Type:Quick Connect
  
• Actuation Type: Bat
  
• Mounting Type: Panel
  
• Bush Thread Length:11.9mm
  
• Contact Current @ Contact Voltage AC Max:8A
  
• Contact Current @ Contact Voltage DC Max:16A
  
• Contact Current AC Max:16A
  
• Contact Current DC Max:16A
  
• Contact Material:Silver Cadmium Oxide
  
• Contact Voltage AC Max:125V
  
• Contact Voltage DC Max:28V
  
• External Depth:21.8mm
  
• External Length / Height:32.2mm
  
• External Width:27.9mm
  
• Height:32.2mm
  
• IP / NEMA Rating:68
  
• Operating Temperature Max:85°C
  
• Series:T7
  
• Temperature Operating Min:-30°C
  
• Thread Size:15/32-32 NS-2A
  

 

Any help is good help no matter what. Open to all ideas and solutions! :D

Edited October 28, 2010 by Kiezer

[power5]

Where are you at? I have a CAD table that cuts corrugated designs. I am a designer in the packaging industry. I ahve some designs for my simplified pit which will really be basically a Helios type pit. Got a chair design and controls positions. Next is to cut out prototype and then transfer to MSG and screw everything up. Too bad our tables can't cut wood. Just a reciprocating xacto blade for papers.

[Scudslaker]

i think it is not really usefull..only if you want to use realistic..better original switches. usefull to know what kind of switch you want to use..for example:

 

http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/overview/0216100/Kippschalter

 

But those spez is usefull if you need spareparts for original pit as it seems to me

[Kiezer]

Where are you at? I have a CAD table that cuts corrugated designs. I am a designer in the packaging industry. I ahve some designs for my simplified pit which will really be basically a Helios type pit. Got a chair design and controls positions. Next is to cut out prototype and then transfer to MSG and screw everything up. Too bad our tables can't cut wood. Just a reciprocating xacto blade for papers.

 

only a couple of thousand miles to the east form you.

 

good old (wet) Scotland

[Kiezer]

i think it is not really usefull..only if you want to use realistic..better original switches. usefull to know what kind of switch you want to use..for example:

 

http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/overview/0216100/Kippschalter

 

But those spez is usefull if you need spareparts for original pit as it seems to me

 

 

To get this thing moving I will need 5x SPST On/Off switches and 1x SPSD On/Off/On switch I think

[hog_driver111th]

That's where my problem is... not knowing which switches to order. I'm going to stop in the hangar today at work and talk to one of the guys I know in there (that speaks really good english, since my German isn't the greatest... I work at Schönefeld Airport in Berlin). I might be able to acquire some switches or at least get some good info on them.

[Deadman]

What kind of switches are you looking for? Military or commercial? The description of most switched ie toggle or locking is in the real manual

 

That's where my problem is... not knowing which switches to order. I'm going to stop in the hangar today at work and talk to one of the guys I know in there (that speaks really good english, since my German isn't the greatest... I work at Schönefeld Airport in Berlin). I might be able to acquire some switches or at least get some good info on them.

[hog_driver111th]

Yo deadman, long time. I'm trying to figure out which switches are used on the electrical panel, as a start... mainly the size, function (on-off...), volts... basically whatever information I can get on them so that I'm not buying 30 switches and they are all wrong. Can you point me in the right direction? Keizer, sorry if I'm stealing your thread... I figured this info might benefit you too.

After I get the switches, I need to wire them to a Master Card (something like this? http://www.opencockpits.com/catalog/master-card-p-29.html?cPath=21_27) and a usb card to get it connected to the PC right? Then I would just need software to connect it to the A-10C... or am I on the wrong track?

Edited October 29, 2010 by hog_driver111th

[Kiezer]

^^ lol np mate. I could do with any info I can get as I will be starting with the same panel then moving onto the fuel panel and then the UFC. Thats my plan so far.:D

[Deadman]

For the type of switch just check the flight manual http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6XZJKVCA Page 1-21 and 1-23 for the function of the switch. As for the how strong a switch for amps and watts you would have to read up on the board you will be using but as far as i know the board don't send much power on the lines to the switch its just enough to tell if the switch is open or closed , but check for yourself please i have not really worked on connecting switches to a board yet.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Deadman

[rocketeer]

Besides checking out the manual, you can also go into the beta training, zoom in and click on the switches on the desired panel. I did that for every panel to confirm which toggles are two way and which ones three etc. I can't remember if this was simulated in the beta, but some switches are special eg. in the IFF panel some toggles are momentary in the UP position but latch in the DOWN position. I think similarly for the canopy switch on the right console.

 

For inputs I've never bothered to check the electrical rating of toggles, push buttons etc. as I believe they don't consume much power ( I could be wrong). My impression is that most I/O cards would be able to handle them. If you are trying to just test out an I/O card, you get get a few switches from a retail store. But don't buy all your switches from retail as that'd be expensive. Figure out in total how many types of switches and how many you need for each type (I have a spreadsheet for all required switches for the A10C), then order from an online store. You'd save a lot. Eg. a push button from retail may be $2.99 or $3.99. From online you may find one as low as $1.30 etc. but there may be a minimum order quantity to meet which should be fine since you'd be ordering bulk.

 

Websites that I check out often:

-http://www.alliedelec.com

-http://www.digikey.com

-http://www.onlinecomponents.com/

-http://www.newark.com/

-http://octopart.com/

 

Digikey is my favorite. Octopart will compare prices from different vendors and list their list for you.

 

Note that even for simple things like two-way toggles there can be lots of differences like big toggles, medium and small toggles. On the A10C depending on how fanatic you are in trying to look exactly like the real thing, some toggles are big round type, some are T shaped, some are coned and have to be pulled up to switch position. If you are lazy or have limited patience/time/money then just stick to two categories big and small toggles.

 

If you are newbie to cockpit building and I/O card interfacing, I suggest you start with inputs only for now. Outputs like LED, LCD, 7 segment displays tend to be a lot more complicated as you need to extract data from the sim. Inputs usually are very simple for toggles and push button. Pots and encoders and rotary switches are a bit more work but still manageable. If you are just trying out you can use the Leo BU0836X card, provided that ED eventually adds key commands to the panel switches. Then you just need to record the key command and you are done. If you intend to build the full blown thing, ie. all panels, then don't use BU0836X as you'd need like 10-15 of them! Then use the proven Open Cockpit cards and its software SOIC. It's proven to work with FC2 and BS. And a few guys here have shown how they work. For just inputs alone Hagstrom has a good key emulation card. they also have other cards for encoders, pots etc. but no output solution by hagstrom and also their cards are more expensive then the OC cards. these are the two popular I/O solutions to consider when building your pit.

 

Then you also want to consider how you'd be wiring your switches, use flat ribbon cables (40 wire), CAT 5e type (7 wires) or individual wires, what kind of connectors (D sub 9, 15, 25 etc.) or HE10 or LAN connectors etc? Do you want to connect from the switches to the I/O card directly or do you want to use breakout boards in between? All these affect your design and more importantly, the cost. the more elaborate your design, the longer it takes and the more it'd cost. In terms of cost, do a very conservative estimate, then times 3, that's the minimum actual cost it'd turn out to be! not to mention, once you catch this insanity to build a pit, don't expect it to be ever done! When you enjoy doing it so much (even though it takes up too much of your time which should be spent with the family and money) you'd keep looking for more things to be added or redo areas that you are not satisfied with, so be warned. Welcome to the dark side.

[hog_driver111th]

Hey Rocketeer, any chance I can get a copy of your spreadsheet of switches? I'm thinking of also using Leo's board (just waiting for the wife to give in and let me start buying stuff, hehe) which should help a n00b at building like me. I'll get one as a start, since I can then do the main switches I would use for now. Later on I'll probably upgrade to the OC stuff, but will probably need video building instructions, or someone to come visit for a few hours and help me set it all up, lol...

[Feed]

hog_driver, I'd suggest it's important to decide what you plan on doing right up front. Leo's boards are great input devices, but they will not let you do any kind of ourput. If you have *any* plans to add functioning indicator lights, panel readouts, or anything of that sort, I'd choose a platform capable of that right from the start.

 

Once that decision is made, almost regardless of which card you choose (Leo's, OpenCockpits, EPIC, Hagstrom, or most others), you'll most likely be fine with any off-the-shelf switch you're likely to find. Unless you're trying to interface REAL aircraft components, the most current you're likely to encounter is 5 volts at around 20 milliamps.

 

Configuring the software interface that will make the simulator react to that switch the way you want it to is an entirely different challenge, and you'll have to know how your interface works. If you wire up a standard toggle switch to a hacked joystick, or one of Leo's cards, then what the computer is going to see is a joystick button, either turned off (joystick button not pressed) or on (joystick button is pressed - and held down until the switch is flipped off again). Only you know your budget, but do as much research and planning as you can, before starting to build.

 

Take it from me - I bought a Hagstrom KE-USB108, convinced that I'd thought it through. It IS a fantastic and capable card that is well worth the money - if it suits the plan. Since I want to have indicators and readouts (outputs), I wish I'd just gone 100% OpenCockpits from the beginning.

 

Rocketeer - I'd be interested in a copy of that spreadsheet as well. I don't know that relying on the simulator functionality is the best course, but it's certainly a good place to start. There's also the manual (for both the simulator and the real thing - I know the A-10A manual is posted here somewhere).

 

A few other (minor?) points - Leo's cards AFAIK are not key emulators - rather than recording keystrokes, they're recognized by Windows as joysticks, so you'll assign simulator commands to joystick buttons. Hagstrom offers a few choices, some of which offer keystroke emulation, joystick buttons, etc. The OpenCockpits stuff is very capable at a relatively low cost, but it is significantly more complicated to set up. It all depends on what you plan to do.

 

very minor ... Cat5 is 8 leads, not 7. :) Both Deadman and Rocketeer, as well as most other folks around here - are extremely helpful and have great advice/ideas. As a newbie around here, I'm impressed and thankful.

[rocketeer]

Feed, PM me your email address. I've already sent the spreadsheet to hog driver.