Hope for another FC2 compatibility patch

[Pyroflash]

Easily fixed by mission design. If you want "fair" game only include DCS titles in the mission and if you don't care and/or play co-op's mix FC2 and DCS.

 

/KC

 

Thanks for quoting me out of context. I am saying that the level of fidelity would cause an imbalance in game play because of the steep learning curve of DCS vs. FC2. Not that the planes themselves should be balanced. If I wanted the planes to be perfectly balanced I would go play HAWX, where the developers are more concerned with people whining about powerful planes than the actual specs of said aircraft.

 

That being said, it is not a problem that a mission designer can fix. Sure he can add more surface to air threats if one team is beating the other too bad, but what happens if some experienced players come in, ones who know how to fly the DCS aircraft to its full ability? The mission designer would have to edit the mission every twenty minutes.

 

With only DCS aircraft on the field you ensure a fairly consistent level of fidelity across the theater and for all players. That means that two people who just started playing the game three hours ago would be relatively fairly matched in skill, with both players having complex systems to deal with. Not one player having to deal with a five minute start-up and the other player being off the ground, in the air and climbing within thirty seconds with an easy to manage radar and systems he really doesn't have to mess with much.

 

And yes, GGT, in the scenario I just pointed out, I would bet, maybe not much, but I would bet(though I never said which side I would be betting for ).

[KeyCat]

Sorry for that Pyroflash, not my intention to mis-qoute you. But IMHO it would still be no problem since the mission designer decides what to be available to fly.

 

I see pro's and con's with both approaches and in the end it's up to ED.

 

/KC

Edited February 24, 2011 by KeyCat

[TAIPAN_]

DCS is not that hard come on. Once you're in flight you only use <20% of the switches in the cockpit.

 

Also having a clickable cockpit makes it much easier in my opinion. I struggle to fit all the mig-29 commands on my HOTAS but in black shark I have space to spare as I use the mouse for non combat stuff.

 

Fidelity doesn't spoil it now - if I'm in a ka-50 and there's a Buk system or hidden Tunguska I love to call in a 25T for SEAD. It not only works but it's wonderful.

[Boberro]

Game won't be unbalanced, is it now with Ka-50? No, it isn't.

Patch would be wonderful to fill gap and add great enjoy where you could fly crappy GheyTen™ (A version) and fly cool A-10C maybe together with Frogfoots. That all with real, human fighters escort. Wouldn't it be cool? We all know it would.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Boberro

[Pyroflash]

Cool yes, I love my fighters and see no reason why they can't coexist with A-10C's

[Opoch]

The reason I am so opposed to compatability is because I don't want to see my awsome game dynamics trashed like they were with Black Shark. The problem with makeing a sim such as WH or BS run with a game like FC2 is that you are going to have to sacrafice realism and create balance for those sims fit into the game.

 

That's what they did with BS. I can fly slow and high in a straight line, deploy one or two cycles of four flares each, and avoid anything that comes at me. Hell, sometimes I don't even have to drop flares. I know missiles miss, but this seams a bit over the top to me. Rotors do not make radar returns in multiplayer, and I gave up 1.0.2 before I could figure out if they do in single player.

 

I feel like my sim was swept aside for the sake of a game audience. That makes me sad.:cry: There are other things I could complain about, but let me just say this: if this compatability patch were to bring FC2 and BS back UP to DCS standards (as opposed to trashing an awsome sim) and not break my game again, I would be all for it. I like the idea of flying with fighters and other ground pounders, plus believe it or not I have friends, and it would be great to keep anihalating them with my A-10C.

 

It makes me afraid that ED is foresaking the small nitch market of harcore simming for the larger game market. That also makes me sad. :cry:

[golfsierra2]

if this compatability patch were to bring FC2 and BS back UP to DCS standards (as opposed to trashing an awsome sim) and not break my game again, I would be all for it.

 

No way this could happen. The FC2 engine is limited in its capacities, and cannot catch up with the DCS engine. If you go for compability, it's always downwards, providing only the common features of both engines. You always will end up with the FC2 standard as the basis, by that downgrading the 'better' sim.

[Distiler]

No way this could happen. The FC2 engine is limited in its capacities, and cannot catch up with the DCS engine. If you go for compability, it's always downwards, providing only the common features of both engines. You always will end up with the FC2 standard as the basis, by that downgrading the 'better' sim.

 

FC2 has the same engine as DCS:Ka-50 right now, TFCSE. DCS:A-10C just has an updated version of it.

[YorZor]

No way this could happen. The FC2 engine is limited in its capacities, and cannot catch up with the DCS engine. If you go for compability, it's always downwards, providing only the common features of both engines. You always will end up with the FC2 standard as the basis, by that downgrading the 'better' sim.

 

Then export the flight models out of FC2 and put them in dcs... How hard can it be? Think they even had that in dcs:bs in the beta's.

[Pyroflash]

Yeah, no need to downgrade DCS to make it compatible. They can just upgrade FC2 to the WH engine standard. Same basic engine, so a lot of the code could stay the same, but the game would look and play a lot better for the FC2 guys.

[element1108]

LOMAC has Ubi attached to it, DCS is independent so moving lomac stuff into DCS would probably cost ED some independence or some copywrite fees.

 

Given the fact it took 9 months to incorporate Black Shark into LOMAC it will probably take longer to incorporate A-10C into lomac because the changes are more substantial.

Edited February 25, 2011 by element1108

[*Rage*]

FC2 is already a sorted of LOMAC ported into the BS world. If they 'upgrade' BS to WH standards i suspect it wont be so difficult to do the same for FC2.

 

Still waiting on DCS: Fighter :)

[sonic]

Are you a betting man? ... Because I'm fairly certain that a DCS-Fighter would eat up an FC2 fighter no matter whose hands it was in. ;)

That's teasing!

[BKLronin]

The Compatibility and enginge upgrade for DCS: Blackshark is a must and its not so much more work to do it for FC 2 I guess. Once it´s all out the community can decide how they set up their servers and how the want to mix fidelity.

 

The FC2 folks will be very thankful. :)

[Nerdwing]

Hell just revert those changes to Maverick targetting and I'd be 100% happy :P

[Kegetys]

In the first A10C beta at least some FC2 stuff was flyable (by setting humancockpit=yes). They did seem to have quite a lot of problems (crashes when using the avionics) but it would suggest that a lot of the required stuff is still usable like the "lo-fi" cockpits and flight models. If so, then a compatiblity patch may not be a huge amount of work, but only ED guys know hard it actually may be.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Kegetys

[EtherealN]

When embarking on the project of making FC2, ED thought just like you - should not be a huge amount of work. 2 months tops. Alas, software development isn't quite that easy and it ended up requiring significantly more time than that (which is also why the pricetag was raised).

 

Something looking simple is unfortunately not a good indicator of actual difficulty. :(

[SilentEagle]

In the first A10C beta at least some FC2 stuff was flyable (by setting humancockpit=yes).

 

All my attempts were failures after beta 1..and getting them working in beta 1 was never so simple as setting "no" to "yes." It involved copying dlls from FC2, which maimed DCS. Maybe you have something to contribute? :)

[Kegetys]

getting them working in beta 1 was never so simple as setting "no" to "yes." It involved copying dlls from FC2, which maimed DCS. Maybe you have something to contribute? :)

 

I'm quite sure I didn't copy anything from FC2, I just recall I tried at least the F-15C and A-10A and they worked with just setting humancockpit = yes (but I could be wrong, I dont remember anymore as it was just a quick test).

[TAIPAN_]

When embarking on the project of making FC2, ED thought just like you - should not be a huge amount of work. 2 months tops. Alas, software development isn't quite that easy and it ended up requiring significantly more time than that (which is also why the pricetag was raised).

 

Something looking simple is unfortunately not a good indicator of actual difficulty. :(

 

Yes but were not hoping for the scope of changes in FC2 they're already done, were only hoping for a compatibility patch like that which came out after FC2.

 

Besides, all titles are overdue a patch anyway when you look at all the little bugs that are unfixed. Some of these issues don't happen in A-10C build so that can help the other titles if they get combined engines again.

[Steel Jaw]

What a complete waste of time trying to make an outdated lite weight mesh with a modern hardcore. You want fighter cover? Let ED make us a DCS fighter now.

 

FC2 is of no account.

[Dudikoff]

What a complete waste of time trying to make an outdated lite weight mesh with a modern hardcore. You want fighter cover? Let ED make us a DCS fighter now.

 

That's like a year away at least. Besides, it would be worthwhile for the single player if nothing else. So, if you don't need it, why oppose it? I'm certain that they wouldn't consider it if it would jeopardize the work on the next DCS module.

[EtherealN]

I think the reason he opposes it is because it would delay DCS:Next.

[Boberro]

Mower is close to retire so he will have a lot of time, can wait :D

 

FC2 -DCS is "a must" for reasons which have been repeated dozen times before ^^

[PlainSight]

What a complete waste of time trying to make an outdated lite weight mesh with a modern hardcore. You want fighter cover? Let ED make us a DCS fighter now.

 

FC2 is of no account.

:thumbup: Yep, FC2 came far enough. It's already developed far beyond the original LOMAC. It's a separate, finished product. It's time to let it go, and just concentrate on present and future DCS modules.