Su25T laser auto-turn-off

[Roman G]

I am wondering - in real Su-25T - the laser painter automatically turns off after 60 seconds even if there is homing Vikhr missile in the air and the missile's flight time to target is about 2-3 seconds ? I just can believe that the real Frogfoot is this "limited".

 

This happens to me quite often - the laser designator turns off just before the missile is supposed to hit the target ...

[Cobra360]

The laser can overheat with extended use. You need to turn it off when your not using it and let it cool down before you can use it again.

[Prophet_169th]

Yeah, its not a low power laser. For it to last longer, you would have to increase the cooling. And the 25T is heavy enough.

 

The best thing to do, is lock the target before you turn laser on. It takes practice, but then estimate range to target, and only turn the laser on when you are in range to fire.

 

You only get range on the HUD with the laser on, so if you need, just turn it on briefly to get range.

 

The laser is usually good for one pass. Then let it cool, and turn around again.

[Roman G]

The laser can overheat with extended use. You need to turn it off when your not using it and let it cool down before you can use it again.

 

I know that. Sorry to not explain my point properly. My point is that if the 60 seconds laser auto-shut-off time is reached AND there is missile in air with less than 3 seconds flight time to target then Su25T should just wait 3 more seconds before auto-shutting off the laser. I can't imagine that the 3 seconds would matter that much to laser lifetime. If the laser is shut off then the missile will not hit (right before the impact) and if the target is the last one then the airplane would just have to make one more turn to kill it. Which seems to me much more dangerous to aircraft and the crew than keeping laser on for three more seconds.

[Roman G]

The best thing to do, is lock the target before you turn laser on. It takes practice, but then estimate range to target, and only turn the laser on when you are in range to fire.

 

You only get range on the HUD with the laser on, so if you need, just turn it on briefly to get range.

 

I am turning on the laser right before I fire the Vikhr missile. I am talking about situation when there is multiple targets in close proximity of each other - for example convoy of vehicles on the road. In this case I am able to kill about three vehicles on single pass. My problem is that lot of times the laser is turning off just a few seconds before last target is supposed to be hit. I think it is more important to keep laser on for three more seconds than to auto-shut it off for cooling.

[Strannik]

You can switch ON laser manually and it will be ON until it will be damage, if you want so.

Read LO manual first...it will be better than begin to compare "real-unreal"

[Roman G]

You can switch ON laser manually and it will be ON until it will be damage, if you want so.

Read LO manual first...it will be better than begin to compare "real-unreal"

 

I actually read the manual. If there is something I missed then please let me know the manual page number you are talking about.

 

What do you mean "You can switch ON laser manually" ? Is there AUTOMATIC switch ON for for the laser illuminator ? Or is there SECOND manual switch for laser illuminator which cause laser to stay on even if it is overheating ? I know that after the laser auto-turns-off THEN you can switch it on again immediately by pressing the ON button quickly about five times (and it stays on until you turn it off). But this DOES NOT HELP because the in-flight Vikhr missile is already lost because of the auto-turn-off - and at this point it doesn't make much sense to turn laser on again because after going toward target for about a minute I am usually below minimum Vikhr range to fire another missile.

[BBQ]

What he means, is you can "override" the laser to keep it on--I don't know the key combination--but it's in there somewhere--check the key commands doc.

[504 Wolverine]

Press laser on key six times within 1 second. This overrides the auto switch off but will gradually damage the laser system

[Witchking]

keep shift pressed and press o for six times..that will override laser cooling. then finish firing..the moment u finish the run shut it off...let it cool.

 

I can hit a max of 4 targets once in one run.

 

first target the first vehicle u can. I go at around 500 kmph. and when the missile is almost about to hit the target, fire the next...now just target the next...just switch over...do not remove lock...and keep doing that.

 

about the override. I know it shuts down soon but I guess yeah! turn on the laser in the last moment possible. thats all I can say. then use override.

[Roman G]

What he means, is you can "override" the laser to keep it on--I don't know the key combination--but it's in there somewhere--check the key commands doc.

 

What I actually mean is that the Su-25T should not auto-turn-off the laser illuminator if there is just about 2-3 seconds to missile impact. It should wait for three more seconds and THEN auto-turn it off. My original question was whether the real aicraft is doing the same thing.

 

I am sorry if I misled all of you into thinking that I am asking about the "laser on" key or "laser override" key - which I am not. I was just reacting to Strannik's post which I don't know why he was reacting to as I was asking about the keys (he did not seem to read my posts AND he was hinting that I should read manual. What he suggested (to override the laser cooling mode) was not answering the question/problem)

[Force_Feedback]

it doesn't have any kind of connection with the missile (no datalink) so the su25t doesn't know the remaining flight time. Offcourse, this could be solved by using a formula to calculate the Vikhr's flighttime (though with lots of variables like changing targets, denser air). Too bad the people that designed the "laser" system didn't think of that.

 

 

the word 'laser' should always be between "" because Dr. Evil does it too

[Strannik]

To Roman

=======

Oh, man! I real world every tank model has air defence in form of guns, placed on tank tower. T72-NSV 12.7, T62-DShK, Leopard2-MG52.

If you try to attack 3 tanks and tank commanders are good gunners, you will be shoot down. Possibility to fullfil multiple attack by one pass trough is very very low. To repeat attack sins ground forces been prepeared for this and maybe they have missile lanchers as Stingers and "Iglas"...you will try anyway? Tanks have smoke generators to hide itselv. Ground forces have allso communication with command center and reseive information from AWACS and wait for you when you will approuch...

So if you destroed one tank by one pass and save your aircraft - you are good pilot.

And for the end. Weapon configurations made not for fullfiling simple cases.

They are very unusual in real world.

 

To Force Feedback

==============

9A4172 has speed 610m/s. 9 sec for 4km according info in manual.+ this is not BVR so probably you will see both target and missile smoke - and eyes are best sensors arent it?

[Prophet_169th]

It is to protect the laser. And yes those few seconds can cause permanent and serious damage to the laser.

 

One possibility, is put the laser in override from the start of the run. But remember to shut off.

[Raploc]

I am wondering - in real Su-25T - the laser painter automatically turns off after 60 seconds even if there is homing Vikhr missile in the air and the missile's flight time to target is about 2-3 seconds ? I just can believe that the real Frogfoot is this "limited".

 

This happens to me quite often - the laser designator turns off just before the missile is supposed to hit the target ...

 

 

Why not? Better to waste a missile than destroying the laser. But I would understand if there was a kind of "wartime" overload setting. The laser would need extra maintenance the minute you would land of course.

 

Strannik a tank driving at 50 Kph is not a stable AA gunplatform. And if the Vikhr is just as good in rl as in the game, I would smoke those tanks at about 5 km and there is no machinegun that would be able to hit me at that distance.

[Strannik]

 

Did you been in tank, that you know about it stability at 50kmh? Probably never.

[Roman G]

it doesn't have any kind of connection with the missile (no datalink) so the su25t doesn't know the remaining flight time.

 

If you look at Shkval targeting system monitor after you fire missile you will see that it is showing exactly how many seconds are remaining to missile impact. So the su25t knows (ok maybe just approximately - but still I think within one second).

 

... yes those few seconds can cause permanent and serious damage to the laser ...

 

OK, in that case it seems that su25t could be making the right decision ... Is there key to turn laser into override mode without need to turn it off first ? (NOW I AM ASKING FOR A KEY...) If I turn laser off even for a second then the in-flight-missile will be lost - and because I cannot fire another one in that moment (because target is usually too close) - it will be pointless to put laser into override mode.

 

... I real world every tank model has air defence in form of guns, placed on tank tower. ...

 

That makes the Su25t decision to shut off the laser right before missile impact even more stupid. If I was just about to hit the last tank - this makes the tank to survive the atack in the moment when Su25t is closest to it! In that case - if this was for real - I would rather burn three lasers instead of making another turn ...

[EvilBivol-1]

To go a little further on this point:

Weapon configurations made not for fullfiling simple cases.

They are very unusual in real world.

 

Its sometimes hard for us 'arm-chair pilots' to be on the same page as real life pilots and, even more so, real life engineers and designers of the weapon systems they employ. You're approaching this from a narrow perspective of convenience (at worst), or what appears to you to be common sense (at best). They, however, have a much wider perspective, considering factors like mean overhaul time, ease of service, cost-effectiveness, simplicity/complexity, weight... etc, etc, etc. Most of all, to be quite honest, Soviet designers were never known to be overly concerned with pilot convenience...

[Strannik]

With "simple cases" I mean that weapon designers not dreaming that "ground forces allmost all time drink vodka in nearest villages, so it is easy to destroy those armor. We have to create weapon from this point of view!":)

 

For instance trying to increase (make it better) "return loss" just 1 or 2 decibel (from 20 to 22) for duplex filter in radar, can lead to completly change of filter basic design and so on. All equipment limits have very deep reason about its edges.

To make laser works 180 seconds instead of 60 it should be perfect, but may be its not possible or possible but it will be extremly expensive. This kind of equipment has very short live time + expensive service ets.

More cheap to send 5 Su-25 to attack 5 tanks......................

No good idea to keep disscution in same direction. I dont want.

[Raploc]

Did you been in tank, that you know about it stability at 50kmh? Probably never.

 

I have had the opportunity to catch a ride on a Leopard 1 tank about 14 years ago when I was in the army. Was it fun? hell yeah!! Could someone hit a fast moving plane with a machinegun while doing 40-50 kph on rough terrain looking for a place to hide from antitank missiles? Hell no! But this is getting of topic.

[Strannik]

Sorry for my misunderstanding, Raplos! Cool.

I dont know about Leopard 1, there are so much modification of this model.

But russian tanks go more softly on terrain in comparing with Leopard 2. I been surprised that L2 go so hard. To tell the truth so I never had any practic to strike down an aircraft, only helicopters. In that time it was primary

danger for tanks. The practic include: tank speed 30 kmh, distance to target 2 km. One target on open terrain, 2 in the trees. Everybody tried to shoot most to trees. It was more funny to observe how it split.:)

But you are right! At 10km distance, a tank has no shans to win.

[Raploc]

Strannik at least you got to shoot at something, I was just a passenger then, and I got the impression they wanted to rattle out my teeth.