Fly heading 232 for 35, qfe 29.............

[Rainmaker]

Altitude should never be set to 0 at field elevation, unless the field is 0 feet above sea level. Set altitude to the field level, Radar altitude tells you the rest.

 

ATC SHOULD be giving pressure in 4 digits, IE 29.92 as others have stated. just telling us 29, 30 ect is completely useless.

 

 

Well...

 

This is what I thought as well. But as I read into what QFE numbers are actually used for, it appears that these numbers are given to you to make that exact thing happen. By looking at the definition of QFE, it is an altimter setting to zero out an altimeter at a given reference point, in this case that would be the airfield. Is giving you a QFE number the wrong way to go about it? In R/L, are you given something other than a QFE setting? I do realize that it should be a 4 digit number though.

[peacedivision]

Thanks guys, my knowledge is all civil. 0 it is. And I guess it only really matters if you are flying from field A to field B with dynamic weather. Otherwise the pressure never changes far as I can tell.

[Rainmaker]

It's SOP in the military to zero your altimeter at your departure field.

 

 

I am really wondering at what level this is mandated...because I know for a fact that it's not SOP for our pilots to do so. Our altimeters are set based on MSL elevation altitude, not adjusted to read zero on the airfield. I just came back from overseas, where our elevations were in the 5K feet range. And that's exactly what our altimeters showed when set by tower's baro number.

[peacedivision]

That's what I'm wondering as well, If altitude is always 0 at field, why does ATC even bother with QFE at startup? It would only matter on approach. And it seems EXTREMELY unsafe to fly at any altitude above sea level with your alt zero'd to the field.

[636_Castle]

I am really wondering at what level this is mandated...

 

It isn't mandated, but it's common practice and should be used when possible, especially when operating in close proximity to the aerodrome. It's a safety precaution, because exact field elevation isn't always known, and TDZE isn't always taken into consideration.

 

See

accident, occurred due to forgetting to set the QFE, and, "objects being closer than they appeared." ;)

 

It's vital for aerobatics as seen in that Thunderbird's clip. You lose your radar altimeter during inverted flight, and pulling 6 Gs while flying upside-down isn't the best time to start doing math. :P

 

In eastern Europe and Russia, especially in the Royal Navy/RAF, QFE is a common setting used.

Edited March 30, 2011 by 636_Castle

[Rainmaker]

It isn't mandated, but it's common practice, especially when operating in close proximity to the aerodrome. It's a safety precaution, because exact field elevation isn't always known, and TDZE isn't always taken into consideration.

 

I don't know what to say to that then...haha :megalol:

 

Because not a single one of our pilots that I have ever seen do that. Meybe it's a European/everyone else vs. America thing. :D

[636_Castle]

Meybe it's a European/everyone else vs. America thing. :D

 

It's not. Maybe I came off wrong. :P I shouldn't have said SOP. There are situations, such as IMC, where a QFE setting wouldn't give you appropriate obstacle clearance info. Or, if traveling above transition level, in which case you need to set QNE, no matter where in the world you are. Or when SLP is going to be changing frequently, during long distance flights.

 

But in VFR conditions when you aren't going to be going through transition level, I personally have been advised to stick to QFE when possible, in the United States. :)

 

Not the case for DCS's AO though. QFE is the norm all the way up to transition altitude.

Edited March 30, 2011 by 636_Castle

[Chops]

In the U.S. civilian jets fly traffic patterns at 1500 ft. Above Ground Level (AGL). Small aircraft, Cessna's, Piper's, piston-driven fly the traffic pattern at 1000 ft AGL. When I am flying a traffic pattern in the sim, I make a note of the field elevation and then add 1500 ft to it, and fly the pattern at that altitude.

 

This applies to Visual Flight Rules (VFR) not instrument conditions (IFR). If you are in the weather, you will be flying your filed flight plan and then an instrument approach into your landing airport. Often you will get vectors from Air Traffic Control to the final approach course.

 

If your altimiter is set correctly, it should be reading approximately the same altitude as the field elevation while on the ramp. In fact if you don't know the current local altimeter setting at your airport you can set field elevation in your altimeter.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Chops

[Rainmaker]

Yah, there is obviously two schools of thought here. Apparently neither method seems to be concrete in terms of one method being right and one wrong. Very interesting...

[peacedivision]

Youtube is no help as I cant find any A10 takeoff or landing videos which show the HUD, other than DCS haha.

 

The handful of F16 and 18 hud vids seem to show the baro alt set to the fields elevation above sea level, not 0 on the ground.

 

Not saying this is correct SOP, ect. But it seems to be common practice and its what I'm used to so I think I will continue with the field altitude method.

 

${1}

 

Edited March 30, 2011 by peacedivision

[peacedivision]

And if anyone knows how to make youtube clips embed, please :helpsmilie:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQqs_wuzZUA

 

Annd of course heres a vid showing an F16 at 0 on the ground. :D

 

Edited March 30, 2011 by peacedivision

[Rainmaker]

Perhaps an odd thought here as to reasoning....but it sounds pretty solid.

 

I wonder if the different methods can be attributed to the aircraft being equipped with a radar altimeter. Many pilots are taught flight fundamentals on your lower classed aircraft that do not have a radar altimter. This could be the reasoning behind the teachings to some to use the altimeter set to field elevation. In the case of military pilots, all our aircraft are equipped with rad altimeters to give the pilot the same data. The altimeter itself can just be used as a cross-check if needed.

 

Like I say...just a theory but it has some base to it

[Rainmaker]

Annd of course heres a vid showing an F16 at 0 on the ground. :D

 

 

 

He's still showing about 50 FT MSL on his HUD tape...so not quite zero

[Seanner]

I would think you'd have to use the method where your alt reads the FE on the ground or you risk crossing below a mountain peak...say the minimum safe alt is 5000 MSL and your alt reads 5100. Well....you may or may not hit a mountain when flying through clouds based on what the real alt setting was supposed to be...at least you'll know your precise slant range to the runway a millisecond before you die?

[peacedivision]

He's still showing about 50 FT MSL on his HUD tape...so not quite zero

 

Hes actually showing -50, probably for safety during the performance as hitting 0ft would still be 50ft off the deck.

[Rainmaker]

Hes actually showing -50, probably for safety during the performance as hitting 0ft would still be 50ft off the deck.

 

 

Wow...good catch...I didn't even notice that.

[636_Castle]

That's what I'm talking about, in that last video. Certain maneuvers have safety parameters that need to be met in order to ensure the safety of the pilot. For example, the advised apex for a half cuban 8 in the A-10 is 3,000 feet AGL. However, you have no AGL reading at extreme attitudes from your radar altimeter.

 

Also, quoted below is from AFI11-246

 

1.15. To avoid the mental exercise required to subtract an odd-numbered field elevation from the MSL altimeter reading to get above ground altitude, one of the two procedures described below will be used to ―zero the altimeters‖ (QFE).

 

1.15.1. Zero Altimeter Method. Dial aircraft altimeter until indicator reads "0". This method will be used if possible.

 

1.15.2. Nearest 1,000 Feet Method. If it is not possible to zero the altimeter, dial the altimeter to the current altimeter setting for the field, then round up or down to the most appropriate 1,000 feet corrected field elevation (500 round down, 501 round up).

And, you guys are missing the point that QFE (zero'd altimeter) is the standard way of altimeter calibration in Russia.

 

And, seeing as how there's no other theater available to fly in, zero-ing out should be SOP for every DCS pilot.

Edited March 30, 2011 by 636_Castle

[Rainmaker]

And, you guys are missing the point that QFE (zero'd altimeter) is the standard way of altimeter calibration in Russia.

 

And, seeing as how there's no other theater available to fly in, zero-ing out should be SOP for every DCS pilot.

 

 

Sorry for leaving the text in your quote so big....

 

I think you are over-inflating our discussion a bit. I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was mearly offering a discussion as to why both methods are apparently used. You have your flying background behind you, all I have is general knowledge and what I know of being a wrench turner for the last 12 years. But, through that, I do know that our aircrew don't often use the QFE settings. Maybe this is because they have 8 gazillion airfield charts and a nice digital map to get airfield elevations from...I really don't know. But, I am getting your point. I was just trying to determin why I have seen it done another way than what the sim is using as a baseline. Apparently, in real life, it's done two different ways, and I am fine with that. Also don't mind using the QFE settings if that's what we have to go off of.

[636_Castle]

I think you are over-inflating our discussion a bit.

 

Oh I didn't mean to. We're just talking about a lot of different countries here, and I wanted to be loud, lol.

 

It's especially funny, living in the United States I too can see why there's confusion going on. Controllers in America give out QNH as "altimeter 29.92".

 

That tends to drive home a point of "your altimeter should be calibrated this way", which is unfortunate. It varies by country and operation. :)

 

Still though, as mentioned, QFE isn't being reported the way I understand it. Currently in DCS you hear 29, or 30, which are the first two numbers, but we're not getting the rest.

[Rainmaker]

Still though, as mentioned, QFE isn't being reported the way I understand it. Currently in DCS you hear 29, or 30, which are the first two numbers, but we're not getting the rest.

 

 

From the way I understood someone saying it...someone once said that the first two numbers were assumed. If you are given a higher number(eg 98), you use 29. If you are given a lower number(eg 12), use 30 as the first digit. I never acutally tried it, but I do know you are given numbers besides specifically "29" or "30".

[636_Castle]

I swear I can't get a report other than 29 or 30 when changing the QFE in the mission editor.

 

That sounds interesting though.

 

I decided to listen to some Russian ATC too, just to get an example of what they report.

 

 

At 2:47, "QFE 1034" mb I'm guessing.

 

So there must be a trick to ED's ATC, like the low/high pressure assumption you mentioned. Don't know.

Edited March 30, 2011 by 636_Castle

[Rainmaker]

Do not know...never messed with it in the mission editor...only going off what I have heard from tower.

 

Maybe you select 29 or 30...and it fills in the other two digits?

[Temphage]

Another question.

 

Im setting HSI course to 130 for the landing training missions where I am landing at batsumi airport.

 

Where did he get 130 from?

 

I have a question related to this... during the navigation tutorial, at one point he says 'Our next steerpoint is at bearing XXX from us right now, so let's turn there'.

 

I've actually yet to find anything that shows the bearing to another mark/steer/waypoint. The best I can effect is when the point is off the HUD and gives you the 'bearing to go' on top of it.

 

I believe there is some error in your thinking. Your altimeter is calibrated to read elevation in a reference to sea level based on what the airfield gives you. You will not read zero when on the airfield unless the airfield itself is at a sea level elevation. For example, if you at at an airfield who's elevation is at 100 Ft MSL, at touchdown your altimeter will be reading 100 Ft, not zero.

 

Edit, turns out *I* am thinking of the wrong thing...carry on

 

Yeah, I always zero-out my altimeter. If you don't, who knows, you might try to do an acrobatic maneuver while at an airfield 1000 feet higher in altitude than your home station and then crash your F-16 into Idaho. Not that I've not seen that happen or anything

 

EDIT: Dammit, Castle beat me to it.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Temphage

[Temphage]

- NULL -

Edited March 30, 2011 by Temphage

[MTFDarkEagle]

I think the qfe figure, is the last two digits in the millibar pressure. (I.e. 13 in the standard 1013 alt setting (equals to 29.92 qnh).