Engine Out!

[ErichVon]

What is the process to fly back to base on just one engine?

 

I put the fire out in the left engine and headed towards the closest friendly airbase. I started the APU Generators back up, but eventually decided they were not needed. Went to the Emergency Control Panel and unlocked some stuff off hydraulics. Got just about back and somebody took their server down---pissed me off!

 

What is the procedure? Page number? Links? Etc. ?

 

I'm still a newb, figure I will be 4 to 6 months.

 

All I did was go checkout a railroad or pedestrian truss bridge in the war zone. I heard a thud like a bird strike. I went to F2 and saw I was on fire.

 

I realize I went in too close.

 

I prefer playing on a realistic, online sim, like to S77th Kon's. Where everything one does is total sim and no GAME shortcuts. But I do both, using the same Kon A-10C profile.

 

Wish you guys had a 100 player online server, total battle.

 

Checked out FC servers last night. Everybody is over there. But the A10 in FC is not mapped the same.

 

I got the ramp start up down to about 5 to 10 minutes. I can do basic navigation. Landing is easy enough. Not sure if I'm doing Countermeasures correctly but did the tute and read about it. I just learned how to setup the cannon. Now starting the Maverick. I watch guys use the Maverick to kill machine gun nests. Don't think I'd do that in real life---CO might get pissed.

 

You guys need a scoring system to compete against---I want the Battle E award.

 

LOL

 

Erich

:pilotfly:

[ErichVon]

Page 586 in the big flight manual explains a single engine landing and around those pages, a belly-wop landing also.

 

I can assume an engine fire means no relighting engine is possible? Never assume. I will experiment.

 

Erich

:pilotfly:

[bartleby]

Page 586 in the big flight manual explains a single engine landing and around those pages, a belly-wop landing also.

 

I can assume an engine fire means no relighting engine is possible? Never assume. I will experiment.

 

Erich

:pilotfly:

If you haven't already, you should download paulrkiii's excellent emergency checklists (in his signature here http://forums.eagle.ru/member.php?u=70884). IIRC, they mention that the APU shouldn't be turned on after an engine fire due to fire risks.

[ErichVon]

If you haven't already, you should download paulrkiii's excellent emergency checklists (in his signature here http://forums.eagle.ru/member.php?u=70884). IIRC, they mention that the APU shouldn't be turned on after an engine fire due to fire risks.

 

Hi,

 

Yes, I found those, last night, him replying to a different post, I saw them in his signature. They now reside in my Documents stash.

 

Thank you, and thanks for the DCS Wiki link. Been wondering where to find the airport elevations for the altimeter.

 

Erich

:pilotfly:

Edited April 19, 2011 by ErichVon

[BBall]

Hey ErichVon,

 

Good question! I would guess that (unless you’re either very lucky or very skilled) 100% of us will find ourselves with an engine shut down at some time or another while flying this simulation.

 

As a person that’s flown a few engine-out approaches and landings in real life, and literally hundreds of them in the airline simulator, let me throw a few thoughts at you.

 

First of all, anytime you find yourself in a new flying machine, you’re a noob. Yep, even with thousands of hours of flight time, it will take weeks to get comfortable in the pilot’s seat. At the airline, a new aircraft checkout usually takes months, and that’s with lots of flying time in your logbooks, professional ground school and/or simulator instructors, and spending 8 hours a day doing nothing more than living in the training world. Patience is key. One of the BIGGEST things I preach in the LAN squadron I fly with is this mantra:

 

-Learn to fly the aircraft first, and then learn to fight it.

 

Far too many people become overwhelmed with ALL of the information they have thrown at them, but it’s not an outrageous amount if you take it one chunk at a time, then add all the “chunks” up at the end of your training. Again, be patient. Get very comfortable just flying around, doing “touch and go’s”, etc, and then become the “steely-eyed killer” that this thing breeds….lol.

 

Single engine flying.

 

At the “other” airline I flew with before the merger, I spent 27 years with an “Emergency Checklist” (we called it the “Red Bordered Checklist”) with the following words in very bold letters at the top:

 

“FLY THE AIRPLANE, DO NOT HURRY, IDENTIFY THE EMERGENCY”

 

Seems rather silly right? Telling pilots to fly the airplane first and foremost….wtf? Not too crazy actually. Far too many airliners have flown into the ground while the pilots fiddled with a problem while no one was “watching the store”. (The most famous of course, was Eastern Airlines flight 401 that crashed into the Everglades in 1972 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Air_Lines_Flight_401 ).

 

Will the A-10C fly on the autopilot with an engine shut down? Sure it will! (Talking here about an engine failure only…with hydraulic/electrical issues, then I’m guessing the A/P is not an option). I just fired it up here on the trusty laptop, and if flew like a charm in the ALT/HDG mode of the autopilot. Once you have the airplane under control in terms of trim (obviously rudder trim for yaw control, but also aileron and elevator trim if needed), then consider engaging the autopilot. Consider using the “ALT” mode while in a bank so you can stay close to the departure airport while you figure out what your next move will be.

The manual says that external stores can be jettisoned if maximum power cannot be maintained. I HIGHLY suggest getting rid of ALL of the drag (and weight) you possibly can. I’m guessing that with an engine shutdown, the chance of you needing those Mavericks, CBUs, MK84s, etc, for more combat is less than zero. On most every airliner I’ve ever flown, we have an option to dump fuel to reduce aircraft weight with an engine shut down. On some airplanes it was mandatory (727 on 1 engine, DC-10 on 1 engine, B747 on 2 engines), and on most, it’s at least an option. Since we can’t dump fuel on the A-10C, then I suggest jettisoning the stores EVERY TIME you find yourself with an engine shut down. Drag and weight are not your friend here. If you don’t need it, get rid of it!

 

I suggest this sequence with an engine failure on take-off (after V1…in other words, after you’re past the point where aborting the takeoff is no longer an option):

 

-Rudder input to compensate for yaw

 

-Maximum thrust (you’ll be at max thrust on all takeoffs in the A-10C, but many times at the airline we takeoff at a reduced thrust rating)

 

-Landing gear UP (at a positive rate of climb)

 

-if FIRE, pull APPROPRIATE fire handle and discharge fire bottle into appropriate engine (yep, in the real world, the wrong fire handle has been pulled…not a good thing…lol).

 

-Jettison stores

 

-Trim rudder to maintain heading (unless terrain is an issue, a straight out climb is your best option).

 

-at 1000’ AGL…flaps retract (if immediately returning for landing, you may consider not retracting flaps)

 

-Declare an emergency with ATC (in our case, contact ATC and get clearance for return for landing if weather permits…in some of my missions, you’ll be taking off in IFR conditions and an ILS or diverting to an airfield with better weather may be in your future)

 

-Engage autopilot and accomplish “Engine Failure Checklist”.

 

How does this change if the engine quits inflight (or is damaged, catches fire, or requires a shutdown)? Not much really.

 

-Reduce the drag (remember….”FLY THE AIRPLANE”)

 

-fight the fire if needed.

 

-trim the jet

 

-engage the autopilot (if available)

 

-declare an emergency

 

-accomplish checklist

 

On landing, just remember that the moment you lower ANYTHING that will cause drag (flaps/gear), the entire dynamic changes. On some airliners, once you lower the landing gear (and not able to retract it due to hydraulic damage), you’re “committed” to land. I’m not sure if this machine would be able to execute a “missed approach” with the landing gear extended and an engine shut down…would be fun to try.

 

Back when I was a civilian fight instructor teaching in twin Cessnas, etc., we’d teach that when landing on one engine, do not extend the landing gear until you knew that you had the runway “made”, and that you would not have to add lots of thrust to maintain your airspeed as the wheels came down. Obviously with a battle damaged jet (possibly requiring an alternate landing gear extension procedure), you’ll have to use good judgment on when to lower the landing gear on final approach.

 

My best advice? Go practice flying around on one engine! This thing actually flies quite nicely with an engine shut down… We had a LAN member experience an engine failure not long ago on a heavy weight takeoff (bird strike), and he did a superb job. He got the gear up, punched off the stores, fought the fire, trimmed the jet, and flew a VFR pattern to return for landing. I was circling the field watching (and coaching when necessary), and it was a thing of beauty. PLUS…I could tell by his voice that he was pretty jazzed that he just did something that not many people get to experience.

 

Have a great day, and keep us informed on how it’s going,

 

Captain William “BBall” Ball

Boeing 757/767

Delta Airlines

Edited April 19, 2011 by BBall

[BlueRidgeDx]

Nice to have you here BBall. Welcome!

 

Edit: And by welcome, I mean you should post more often. ;)

[bluepilot76]

Capt Ball

Nice post! I know how expensive flying instuction is when we start getting into the realms of twin engine and jet aircraft. That was gold dust!Thankyou for taking the time to provide such comprehensive and good advice advice here on the forum!

[BBall]

Hey guys,

 

 

Thanks for the kind words. I’ve been a “lurker” here for several years, but don’t post too often (I’ll try to change that).

 

 

As these amazing pieces of software have gotten more realistic, I’m pleased that I’ve had a chance to experience it right along with everyone else. The fidelity of these works, grow more incredible every day it seems.

 

 

Have a great day all,

 

 

BBall

[bradleyjs]

BBall knows what he's talking about .. that advice is precisely what should be done ... always remember to ….”FLY THE AIRPLANE” - everything else is secondary ...

 

I've had a few single-engine landings so far and I actually find it to be quite exciting...

 

And, I love to just do touch-n-goes for fun and some basic sight-seeing..

[ErichVon]

Hey ErichVon,

 

Good question! I would guess that (unless you’re either very lucky or very skilled) 100% of us will find ourselves with an engine shut down at some time or another while flying this simulation.

 

As a person that’s flown a few engine-out approaches and landings in real life, and literally hundreds of them in the airline simulator, let me throw a few thoughts at you.

 

----------------snipped-------------------------

 

 

Have a great day, and keep us informed on how it’s going,

 

Captain William “BBall” Ball

Boeing 757/767

Delta Airlines

 

Hi,

 

I have flown with Continental quite a bit and have always thought their pilots are pretty good, Newark, NJ to Seattle, WA and back.

 

I actually did all that, that you have described, except call into the tower (they never answer in full sim mode, yet) and was in pattern to land. I flew all the way back to the 1st friendly base, probably 60 miles. Then the server was taken down.

 

Now, landing and surviving it, is another matter.

 

I have never piloted real life. I only have one real life!!

 

And the only other very realistic sim I have under my belt for 4 years is Aces High out of Texas, mostly all props, a German jet fighter, a German jet bomber and a German rocket/glider. They have twin and 4 engine fighters and bombers included in over 80 aircraft. I found like with a P-38 on one engine, landing it was easy enough. But once down and trying to taxi with it I only kept going in circles. Like you said, once gear is down, you are committed to land.

 

Sucks when just got one flap, too; then go in without flaps, with or without gear, just a hair above stall speed, take my chances.

 

Damage cannot be repaired if going back up, to Aces High, but they do have a refuelling pad. And Aces High is about air combat. Very good chance I'd never make it back to base but get shot down and bail-out. Another time I was dead-stick in a prop plane, flew quite a ways, all set to land on the beach, wheels down and got shot up on final.

 

I needed a change, so I got LockOn Platinum for $20 to BestBuy in January and have only been to DCS:Warthog a month or so.

 

I need to learn crosswinds landings.

 

I get a kick just flying the plane. I am not proficent enough at combat to even consider being useful to a squad, yet, and probably not for a few months.

 

I do go into combat areas and use the F-keys to learn various things on both the friendly and enemy sides. Nice thing about offline game is AI is most likely various canned cycles. On server, you are fighting ever changing, dynamic, real thinking humans.

 

Thank you very much for the reply.

 

Erich

:pilotfly: