tonym Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I just heard a broadcast re the Libyan conflict that said the use of Cluster Bombs was illegal under International rules. Is this so and if true, why do they feature in the loadouts? P.S. They 'aint half effective! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 AFAIK, the US have not signed the contract on banning cluster munitions. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurofor Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Cluster_Munitions [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooshim Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 AFAIK, the US have not signed the contract on banning cluster munitions. --Where's my pen? --------------- Congrats to OP on 101 posts... Yes, there's a bit of barbarism to weps deployment...if you choose to look at it that way. IRL, that is. But, there's nothing in the Geneva Conventions about killing AI. Have at it! Pass the napalm...and a couple of those mines with the plastic bits that don't show up on X-ray charts. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Win7 | Intel Core 2 Quad | Q8400 @ 2.66GHz | 2.67 GHz 3.37GB of RAM 60gig Samsung SSD| GTX 570 "Operation: Bull by the Horns" "Bull Run 2.0" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungfoo Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 This is an iteresting sentence from the Wikipedia page: (...) Permitted weapons must contain less than ten submunitions, and each must weigh more than 4 kilograms (8.8 lb), and each submunition must have the capability to detect and engage a single target object and contain electronic self-destruct and self-deactivation mechanisms (...) This means, that the convention only rules out "stupid" cluster bombs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
636_Castle Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 In other words, kill people, but do it nicely. :doh: *Holding back rant*. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] How To Fix Your X-52's Rudder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 This is an iteresting sentence from the Wikipedia page: This means, that the convention only rules out "stupid" cluster bombs. Only if you consider something with like 9 submunitions a "cluster bomb". Intelligent discourse can only begin with the honest admission of your own fallibility. Member of the Virtual Tactical Air Group: http://vtacticalairgroup.com/ Lua scripts and mods: MIssion Scripting Tools (Mist): http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=98616 Slmod version 7.0 for DCS: World: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80979 Now includes remote server administration tools for kicking, banning, loading missions, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 P.S. They 'aint half effective! Right, they are actually 1000X more effective than they should be, at least the CBU-97/105 is. It can kill ships. Multiple ships. With a single bomb. I saw a single one take out five cargo ships once. Intelligent discourse can only begin with the honest admission of your own fallibility. Member of the Virtual Tactical Air Group: http://vtacticalairgroup.com/ Lua scripts and mods: MIssion Scripting Tools (Mist): http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=98616 Slmod version 7.0 for DCS: World: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80979 Now includes remote server administration tools for kicking, banning, loading missions, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boberro Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 In other words, kill people, but do it nicely. :doh: *Holding back rant*. I don't understand such things.... war is war. Killing people but "we have to do it by *nicer* methods"? What big bullsh*t lol 1 Reminder: Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! :D | Also to be remembered: FRENCH TANKS HAVE ONE GEAR FORWARD AND FIVE BACKWARD :D ಠ_ಠ ツ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordWolf Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I don't understand such things.... war is war. Killing people but "we have to do it by *nicer* methods"? What big bullsh*t lol Having a supporting side killing civilians (Those people who for some reason don't fight) isn't exacly appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
636_Castle Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Collateral damage can be prevented by means other than banning specific weapons. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] How To Fix Your X-52's Rudder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotChuckles Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I think it's more the case that certain submunitions, like air dropped AP mines can stay in the ground for years after the conflict which then can be set off by civilians ploughing fields, kids playing etc. You just have to look at the effects of land mines in SE Asia, children being blown up by 30 year old munitions aint exactly good. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winz Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) It's about not all submunition exploding on impact, and staing active way after the conflict ended. When you have cluster bomb with 150submunitions (RBK-250-275 AO-1Š), then the propability of failure for some of the bomblets is pretty high. Edited April 18, 2011 by winz The Valley A-10C Version Revanche for FC 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekkinho Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 It's about not all submunition exploding on impact, and staing active way after the conflict ended. When you have cluster bomb with 150submunitions (RBK-250-275 AO-1Š), then the propability of failure for some of the bomblets is pretty high. It's made on purpose for terrain denial. Some of the bomblets remain unexploded but would explode once you touch 'em or try to remove 'em. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 It's made on purpose for terrain denial. Some of the bomblets remain unexploded but would explode once you touch 'em or try to remove 'em. This is not always the case. These also become your own worst enemy when you start having friendly boots on enemy ground as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 It's made on purpose for terrain denial. Some of the bomblets remain unexploded but would explode once you touch 'em or try to remove 'em. that is not the purpose of the cluster amunition.. it's to get lethal wepoans with low accuracy over large area... they are never designed not to explode. If you want terrain denial you lay mines No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 that is not the purpose of the cluster amunition.. it's to get lethal wepoans with low accuracy over large area... they are never designed not to explode. If you want terrain denial you lay mines This isn't completely correct.... There are cluster munitions that are built with this specific purpose.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Please name 1 cluster bomb/containder with amunition that is meant to not explode and lay on ground for the purpose of terrain denial... I'd like to see it for myself... and it would be one new thing learned for me No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Please name 1 cluster bomb/containder with amunition that is meant to not explode and lay on ground for the purpose of terrain denial... I'd like to see it for myself... and it would be one new thing learned for me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP233 :smilewink: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 ah I see... I was just looking up on the wikipedia for cluster munitions and read laying mines were introduced as well... so I stand corrected and thanks for the link No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 ah I see... I was just looking up on the wikipedia for cluster munitions and read laying mines were introduced as well... so I stand corrected and thanks for the link No problem. I am not sure anyone uses them at all any more. I guess in a worst case scenario, some folks could resort to using them I guess if needed. Maybe some lower equipped foreign countries could have a higher probability of primarily using them I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Groove Posted April 19, 2011 ED Team Share Posted April 19, 2011 I allowed myself to delete the postings about how some nations fights in the POV of others. This is a very sensitive topic and either this stays strictly on the military level or it will get closed. Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namenlos Ein Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Please name 1 cluster bomb/containder with amunition that is meant to not explode and lay on ground for the purpose of terrain denial... I'd like to see it for myself... and it would be one new thing learned for me Dispenser with PFM-1 mines. BLU-43 Dragontooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit_Radar_Dude Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I just heard a broadcast re the Libyan conflict that said the use of Cluster Bombs was illegal under International rules. Typical half-****ed lazy journalism. Two minutes with Google is all it takes, but most journo's cant be bothered. Many countries have signed up to the CCM convention, but key players who are in the top ten arms exporters (like US, China, Russia) have not. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Sorry Death, you lose! It was Professor Plum.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Yes and no. Wiz is correct with reference to the cluster munitions most of us know of. They are actually made to explode on impact or right after impact. Unfortunately those fuzes may fail, but secondary fuzes may remain active. In many cases there is a timer as well to detonated the munition within a short time of impact these days. While there are definitely minelaying applications for cluster bombs, we're not talking about mines - we're talking about UXO of munitions that fail to detonate but remain active. That is definitely NOT what they are meant to be doing. It's made on purpose for terrain denial. Some of the bomblets remain unexploded but would explode once you touch 'em or try to remove 'em. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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