Frustration

[Parintachin]

So I got DCS A10.

 

Back iin the day, I used to Love flight sims. I've spent days in the Microprose sims on the amiga, adored EF2000. And then it went down hill - games like Falcon; well they're not, really, strictly Games, are they? They're more like instruction manuals for kids dreaming of becoming fighter pilots when they grow up.

 

And this appears to be another of the same bunch. I've just spent 3 hours of my time getting pissed on by the tutorials. Millions of buttons, turning on the damn engines is an exercise in frustration, what with the 10 buttons to be flicked and the knobs that have to be turned to positions that are only referenced by the reading that's literally just three black pixels on the dashboard.

 

Well, after about an hour or so, I managed to get the damn brick into the air, and to the required heading. So; a left turn, full 360. Five tries, and I'm still flunking it, and getting told I'm an idiot by that bastard. Turn the plane any more than 10 degrees, and the left wing immediately drops out of the sky, in what I assume is a simulated single wing stall. Nothing will stay stable; the flight path indicator wobbles all over the place as I struggle to keep it anywhere near level, and the airspeed drops so fast I wonder if I've accidentally turned the engines back off.

 

6th time, I took it slow and steady; never turned the plane at an angle of more than 10 degrees, and waited the half a Top Gear episode it took to crawl thru the 360, only to get told again that I suck, and how did I EVER think that flying could be fun?

 

 

*sigh*

What I really really want is something that plays even a little bit like ef2000. You know, like an actual game.

 

Not an exercise in futility.

[xXstubbifiedXx]

You don't have to play it as a full bore sim, you know. I certainly don't. I play with full flight model and realism, but I use shortcuts. Using the right Windows key + home will do the entire start-up procedure for you. Likewise, right Win + End will do the entire shutdown procedure. My idea of fun isn't pressing 100 buttons and switches just to get moving.

 

As for the level turns, it just sounds like you're not doing it right. You don't rotate the plane and yank back on the stick. It's a level turn for a reason. You bank, pull slightly on the stick and then counter-turn with the rudder to keep the altitude pipper leveled at 0. You get a nice quick, smooth turn with no speed or altitude loss.

 

If that's all still too much for you, you can enable the two "game" modes in the options panel for flight model and avionics. Or better yet, just choose the overall game setting. The great thing about this game and in fact, all of ED's titles, is the massive scalability of them. You can play them however you like.

[mtuckner]

Popping popcorn for the show. Some people just aren't of the right mindset to enjoy a detailed simulation. Others can't enjoy a five minute arcade romp.

[zamboni]

1) Create a quick mission in the mission editor that has you start in the air. Choose a load-out without any missiles or anything and just fly around.

2) When you get tired of hearing the about to stall and stall warnings, quit the quick mission and then go to the controls page, and tune your pitch and roll axes with a bit of curvature.

3) tweak the curvatures until you are happy with the amount of joystick movement necessary to maneuver without stalling.

4) Go back and try different loadouts for the plane just to get a feel how it flies.

 

The training instructor is a harsh mistress. You may need a bit of practice before trying for the final exam :)

[Parintachin]

You don't have to play it as a full bore sim, you know. [...] If that's all still too much for you, you can enable the two "game" modes in the options panel for flight model and avionics. Or better yet, just choose the overall game setting. The great thing about this game and in fact, all of ED's titles, is the massive scalability of them. You can play them however you like.

Oh; it's been in game mode since before I started the engines - still frustrating.

 

I do use a pretty decent joystick, if not exactly a new one, and have been trying to use that - it just simply won't stay at a bank at more than 10 degrees ...

[Nate--IRL--]

Trust me it gets easier, Also it sounds like you could do with tweaking the sensitivity of your joystick.

 

If you go to the options and adjust the Curvature and deazone (I use 30 Curve and 10 Deadzone) Flying will suddenly become much much easier. See page 25 of the GUI manual (DCS A-10C GUI Manual EN.pdf)

 

Also don't forget to trim. EDIT:- Oh and turn off the Game Flight Mode (Leave the game avionics if you like), the best feature of the sim is the flight model.

 

Nate

Edited May 5, 2011 by Nate--IRL--

[bloomstomb]

So I got DCS A10.

 

Back iin the day, I used to Love flight sims. I've spent days in the Microprose sims on the amiga, adored EF2000. And then it went down hill - games like Falcon; well they're not, really, strictly Games, are they? They're more like instruction manuals for kids dreaming of becoming fighter pilots when they grow up.

 

And this appears to be another of the same bunch. I've just spent 3 hours of my time getting pissed on by the tutorials. Millions of buttons, turning on the damn engines is an exercise in frustration, what with the 10 buttons to be flicked and the knobs that have to be turned to positions that are only referenced by the reading that's literally just three black pixels on the dashboard.

 

Well, after about an hour or so, I managed to get the damn brick into the air, and to the required heading. So; a left turn, full 360. Five tries, and I'm still flunking it, and getting told I'm an idiot by that bastard. Turn the plane any more than 10 degrees, and the left wing immediately drops out of the sky, in what I assume is a simulated single wing stall. Nothing will stay stable; the flight path indicator wobbles all over the place as I struggle to keep it anywhere near level, and the airspeed drops so fast I wonder if I've accidentally turned the engines back off.

 

6th time, I took it slow and steady; never turned the plane at an angle of more than 10 degrees, and waited the half a Top Gear episode it took to crawl thru the 360, only to get told again that I suck, and how did I EVER think that flying could be fun?

 

 

*sigh*

What I really really want is something that plays even a little bit like ef2000. You know, like an actual game.

 

Not an exercise in futility.

 

Heheh i feel for you bud. And just when you think you have it figured out, there will be a ton of other things.

 

As far as your stalling goes,I would check to make sure your throttle is up all the way.

[Outlaw24]

Hang in there guy, it will get easier with time and pratice. But it will always be something new to learn, study and pratice. Getting your HOTAS/Stick setup and learning how to trim is a good starting place.

[Druid_]

“If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it.” W.C. Fields

[GGTharos]

Put up a track and then we can tell you where you're going wrong ;)

[Villain]

Expecting to master should a detailed sim after an hour no wonder you failed, been playing it a few weeks personally and im at the point where i cant start up take off and land with no problems but i suck with the weapons. Do each training mission until you actually understand whats going on is what i did i still get frustrated by my bombs landing nowhere near why i lased but ill keep trying!

[Parintachin]

The tutorials are kinda more like exams, eh? Well, maybe they should be named so then. And maybe tutorials should be created.

[Nu-NRG]

One thing is for sure ... A-10 is NOT a jet fighter like F16/14/15 etc ... Once you get used to its unique flight model it's rather sweet.

[Parintachin]

Yeah; I get that - I loved the old a-10 sim; have a couple hundred flight hours in it ..

[rud]

Turn the plane any more than 10 degrees, and the left wing immediately drops out of the sky, in what I assume is a simulated single wing stall. Nothing will stay stable; the flight path indicator wobbles all over the place as I struggle to keep it anywhere near level, and the airspeed drops so fast I wonder if I've accidentally turned the engines back off. [/Quote]

 

I'd also really like to see a track if you can upload one. Something is very wonky, the plane should not be behaving that way. What was your airspeed, maybe it was too low? Still have your gear down, or flaps? Accidentally put the speed breaks out at low speed?

 

The A-10 handles any bank I throw at it, you should be able to roll a full 360 degres without experiencing loss of control and a sustained turn should be easy even at 30 degrees bank or more. It's got big wings, lots of lift, but a lot of drag too, make sure you keep your speed up or you will indeed feel like you're flying a brick!

[bartleby]

The tutorials are kinda more like exams, eh? Well, maybe they should be named so then. And maybe tutorials should be created.

 

Try multiplayer. Hop in an open server and start asking questions - you'd be surprised (or not) how helpful people are.

 

Also check out some of the youtube videos people have made. There are lots of them for most aspects of flying and fighting the plane.

 

I hope this thread doesn't get crapped on, because I'd rather have another more potential pilot instead of a disappointed gamer.

[Chris CDN]

The learning curve is pretty steep right off the bat, but it'll click soon and all the pieces will fall into place. Don't give up.

[Tek]

I have to say i love flight sims like this; i love the whole startup/shutdown process and the (painfully) detailed way the sim is made. i played F-22: ADF back in the day which was a lot easier to pick up thoug still not easy, but i learnt to love the learning curve. That said... i understand the frustration in this sim. There is a huge amount to absorb and if you are not used to it it can be overwhelming as the attention to detail is outstanding.

Hang in there as there is a more arcadey way to play as was mentioned and ED have done an excellent job...

One thing i found is that i watched/played the tutorials at first but i made very little of them. After that i put in a few hours of flight and then went back to the tutorials after i had familiarised myself more with the game.

[jeffyd123]

sounds like you just want to jump in and fly ... this one isnt for you more or less.

The other games you liked were basically arcade games with no real-world flight/weapons modelling.

 

This one is an in-depth study sim... I dont think its what you're looking for,

[RAF74_Raptor]

I second the part where you need to get with an online squadron. Yes she is a difficult bird to learn, but once you learn her you will never put her down again. However if you are looking for an EF type game then prehaps you should try some of the strike fighters series. But dont give up on this one this sim is a gem.

[sweinhart3]

I'd also really like to see a track if you can upload one. Something is very wonky, the plane should not be behaving that way. What was your airspeed, maybe it was too low? Still have your gear down, or flaps? Accidentally put the speed breaks out at low speed?

 

The A-10 handles any bank I throw at it, you should be able to roll a full 360 degres without experiencing loss of control and a sustained turn should be easy even at 30 degrees bank or more. It's got big wings, lots of lift, but a lot of drag too, make sure you keep your speed up or you will indeed feel like you're flying a brick!

 

That A-10 can be yanked and banked to some extent without the problems you are talking about. It is quite maneuverable although probably not as much as a fighter. Ill bet just about anything you are trying to steer the plane with rudder. This is not how you fly a jet aircraft and doing so will do exactly what you are describing. To turn the plane, you bank (using aileron) into the turn and use elevator to keep your nose level. SLIGHT amounts of rudder can be used if necessary to keep a coordinated turn, but if I were you trying to just start out, I would not touch the rudder at this point. You can fly the aircraft in calm weather without ever touching the rudder except when you are on the ground. Also make sure your controls are set up properly.

[GGTharos]

The SAS coordinates the turn for you anyway, so no need for rudder under just about any circumstances.

[jaykinch]

hey i feels the same but its getting better

what i done was do the training for take off and landings a few times

then in missions theres a free flight mission do that till u are cumfy with that bit of the game.

Then move down to the nav training and do the the same

it does take time .

I'm still on bomb training but will keep at it (in missions again thers one called target practice)just go through your weapons training then just load this mission again and try again

[BigBANGtheory]

I'm a complete newbie and it took 4-5 goes at some of the basic flight and navigation stuff before I felt I knew what was going on. It is quite rewarding once you get the grip of it and even now I can only barely land in one piece.

 

Think of this sim as a good long term game to be played out over months and years, dont feel pressured into making quick gains and thrills like other games. Take a break have another go in a week no big deal, hell sometime I want to shoot zombies, other times control massive armies and today I want to learn to fly and do things well.

 

Exam? Great idea add it to the wish list I would love to see a flight school exam in either this game or the next DCS title.

[redtail]

The SAS coordinates the turn for you anyway, so no need for rudder under just about any circumstances.

 

 

thank you so much for clarifying that because I'm so use to using a lot of rudder in my real world flying a Cessna 172, that I thought something was a little off with the little need for rudder input when I make turns in this sim :)

 

I found myself using too much rudder and had to slowly make myself start using only small amounts to avoid overcompensating :music_whistling:

 

Man I must say, this sim is simply remarkable! This is the level of detail in a flightsim that I've longed for ever since I got my first computer back in 1983 when I was 17. I finally went to flight school and got my license in 1998 but I'm sure that if I'd had DCS A10c back in 1983 when I was in high school.....I would have certainly joined the air force to sign up for the A10 program :thumbup: