1.11 Patch - BVR Improvments

[Prophet_169th]

Goya, forget the 'F-15'. THe reason why 'F-15' is mentioned is because this wasn't implemented on teh F-15 radar before (ie. you had contact/jammer overlap instead opf contact masking)

 

Any aircraft flying close to a jamming aircraft will be masked/hidden/invisible on the enemy's scope until burn-through or until the jammer ceases to operate.

 

Wether you're flying a 15 or 27/33 or 29, if you see two contacts very clsoe on your scope, and one suddently starts jamming, the other contact will vanish.

 

Currently, if you are jamming and fire a missle, it effects the tracking of that missle, sometimes badly.

 

With this new implementation of jamming, will it also effect the tracking of missles fired close to a jamming plane?

[GGTharos]

I haven't noticed, but I doubt it's been taken out: It's supposed to be a realistic feature.

[Prophet_169th]

I am not hoping it was taken out.

 

I am just wondering if other planes jammers with effect your missle tracking.

 

Currently your jammer if on when you fire, will effect your missle.

[Weta43]

I think he means have they extended it so that it effects planes in the immediate area too (as you would expect it to I guess).

 

Sorry - missed that you'd already explained yourself

[Prophet_169th]

Would definately add some tactics to wingmen.

 

Now you see the sky filled with jamming. Now it will be even more of a problem, since you will be able to mask.

 

The problem I see happening, is a wingman jamming, and the other taking the shot.

 

As it is now, you need to turn ECM off to fire, to get a good track. Now that wont be a problem with a wingman. That and you cant be targetted.

[PaddyTB]

No IFF for the 15?

 

 

Yes, I would love to see this implemented too.

 

In real life the F15 has IFF doesnt it ?

 

Cheers

 

PaddyTB

[spearsd]

Yes

[Prophet_169th]

I am at work, so I cant verify.

 

But I could have sworn that during the training tracks for the F15, that when you select the target, the box around the target would show a star below it when it was an enemy.

 

I have seen the star, but I have never checked to see if thats how it works.

 

Obviously not, since we are asking for IFF to be implemented.

[GGTharos]

The star is a shoot cue. It's not an IFF cue.

[Prophet_169th]

Ahh, thats where I got confused.

[Shaman]

Any Flanker BVR capability improvements?

 

Are there any improvements for Flanker?

Because I just don't understand something.

How come Flanker is sucha bad plane in BVR combat - from my LockOn experience - even so much worse then Fulcrums, and still in real life combat India has won on their multirole versions against F-15s, and Ethopia has won on their Flankers against Eritrea's Fulcrums?

:confused:

[Pilotasso]

...largely due to politics and prices not to mention technology experience.

 

The R-27 has a poor combat record. In lomac your generaly forced to disengage your lock to evade an incoming AMRAAM or take it in the face while guiding. every experienced F-15 driver knows this and despite the shorter range of the AIM-120, theres always a margin of safety where the 15 pilot can wait with incoming r-27's to shoot the AMRAAM and then evade turning backwards.

 

Your best bet is to stay undetected untill your close enough so that the oposition doesnt have time to turn into you and fire. The 15 has a smaller radar view cone.

[Shaman]

EDIT

So if it is that simple. How come US F-15 pilots have lost against Indian Flankers in that aircombat exercises? Is it because of their lack of experience. Wrong training methods or what? I'm very very suprised that gamers can make use of advantages/disadvantages better then these pilots. It is very odd to me.

I understand that the only advantage of MiG-29 over Su-27 is R77 missile. Radar has exactly the same capabilities?

[GGTharos]

It's because the game is always thrown to the home team, not to mention they weren't really allowed to use the AMRAAM (they essentially were to take only 'SARH' type shots), plus it was a bunch of F-15E's doing ground attack against a superior number of fighters doing air to air, or alternatively a bunch of F-15C's defending a base against a superior number of aircraft which, again, is almost always a losing deal anyway.

In addition, no fighter was using any advanced equipment like jammers, or even advanced RWR functions (because they're still quite classified).

 

 

Take the conclusion of those wargames as you will, but in reality they're anything but 'conclusive'.

 

Also, the LOMAC flanker isn't the same as the Indian Flanker ... the LOMAC Flanker is a much, MUCH older model.

At the same time, I suggest fighting some MiG-29A's with the flanker, or at least MiG-29S without R-77, and see how it goes - because the E-E conflict featured MiG-29A's, not S's. In addition, pretty much most of the R-27's missed and all but one kill were credited to R-73's.

 

 

In LOMAC, you just need to check your tactics - and with the new patch, you'll need to take more care with those long-ranged shots, since if you lose the datalink, you'll quite often lose the 120 as well, so no more turning around and running until TTA ...

[4c САВО СРПСКИ]

In LOMAC, you just need to check your tactics - and with the new patch, you'll need to take more care with those long-ranged shots, since if you lose the datalink, you'll quite often lose the 120 as well, so no more turning around and running until TTA ...

 

this is imo the best improvment in the forthcoming 1.11 patch... Lord have mercy!

 

Could you explain, what has been done in order to reach that improvment? (ARH missiles FOV readjustments?)

[GGTharos]

Yes, there have been a number of missile seeker adjustments - to all missiles.

 

None of the missiles will now be able to re-acquire easily in the data link phase, so if you lose the link, you are very likely to lose the missile. ARH do a little better, because they will begin their own scan pattern, but it is possible that they will not find you (we have seen ARH fly overhead without having found a target a number of times now after DL is lost but ... always remember ... it's still scanning, so it COULD pick you up). You can still launch heaters without a lock, but unless you launch them practically straight at the target, they will not acquire.

 

The gimbal limits of the AIM-120 and R-77 have been reduced and the jamming issues have been corrected also. It is still possible, but less likely for the ARH missiles to acquire targets different than the ones they are intended to if you lose the datalink OR if there is a target very close to your intended target that can confuse the seeker.

 

But remember that an AIM-120 equipped aircraft still can maneuver after or very close to TTA, which gives it a few seconds of breathing room.

[4c САВО СРПСКИ]

rgr on that, thnx for the detailed and clear explanation GG!

 

very good news! :-)

[Bouddha]

Hi,

 

In the real world I dont know but in lomac 1.1, I prefer SU27 over F15 in BVR.

 

F15 is ECM on ==> SU27 lock on ECM and climb high and fast.

 

SU27 climbs faster and higher than F15.

 

When the RWR is at 9 o'clock fox1 and crank with a slope of minimum 30° AB out and RPM to minimum.

 

In 1vs1 I am very successful with this technique.

 

Rgds

[GGTharos]

Sure, it'll work on anyone who keeps their jammer on all the time, now when you run into players who actually know how to climb their F-15's /and/ how to use their jammers, you start running into trouble.

 

It's very hard for a HoJ missile to hit a maneuvering target, so you might be fighting peopel who are just flying straight into your missiles ;)

[Shaman]

(...)Take the conclusion of those wargames as you will, but in reality they're anything but 'conclusive'.

 

Also, the LOMAC flanker isn't the same as the Indian Flanker ... the LOMAC Flanker is a much, MUCH older model.

Thanks. It's more clear to me now. Waiting patiently for 1.11.

 

@Bouddha: How about recording a track file with your technique? :)

[GGTharos]

Have you seen Loc's 'F-Pole' movie? That is a pretty good demo of what Bouddha is talking about.

 

The basic idea is to launch your missile first, then turn away from the target as far as you can while keeping lock ... at the same time, you may want to consider planning a second launch and evasive action against an undoubtedly incoming enemy missile. Just ocnsider that it's probably not too high on energy.

 

I suggest using labels and externals while you're practicing to get better at this ... if I ever have a good Flanker v Eagle fight with my wingman, I'll try to remember to record a track for you.

[Bouddha]

Well, I already have a track if you want, only point where do I post it ?

 

The thing is that if you are at lets say around 3'000m over your target you have a big advantage as long as you can have a good lock.

 

and this is the point in Lomac.

If F15 is ECM ON, there is no problem to lock with over 3000m altitude difference.

 

Now, if F15 is ECM off, then you can only lock up to around 1'500m altitude difference and this is not enough to just crank.

 

In this case, I would recommend to 1st crank and then change for a barrel rol (excuse me for the writing, I'm Swiss :) )

 

I have 99% against F15 with IA on the higest level.

against human it is a little different but the barrel rol and also the fact that you can know the distance between the aim120 and your aicraft on your RWR still gives you excellente chances !

 

regards

[GGTharos]

And just how do you know you're 3000m above him?

In most servers now there's no externals, no AWACS, and all you get to know is that you're above the opposition ;)

 

Sure, you could reasonably guess from things, but again, a jamming target will easily evade any long-range HoJ shot unless they actually fly into it.

[Gazehound]

You know if you lock him, note the alt, and then he jams.

A jamming target does not necessarily know you have launched at it, otherwise HOJ would be pretty useless. If you launch and crank immediately, however, to a human opponent it is fairly obvious you have HOJ'ed, but sometimes they think you are going defensive on someone elses shot and as you put it, 'fly right into it'. I only use it at over 7000km, when there are two/three lights left on berozya from the enemy radar, just before burnthru.

[GGTharos]

I just always assume a HoJ shot is coming ... anyway with 1.11 the NATO/Russian RWR situation with HoJ is reversed (Russian HoJ produces lock tone on NATO birds, NATO HoJ is completely silent) so you'll know when you're being targetted in a NATO bird.