Upcoming 1.2 add-on Black Shark

[coldcrew]

what's this battlefield immersion you speak of? Most of what happens in F4 outside the bubble is just the computer crunching numbers. Many of those things don't even exist or matter, I can see the novelty in seeing a bunch of labels doing something while you're also doing something but that's hardly the point of a flight sim. janes f18 proved you don't need a dynamic campaign to enjoy the sim, there's one mission in that game.. a night mission, stormy and totally black, you won't see squat out of your window.. even your wingman. As you fly in to the target all sorts of things are happening around you, escorts doing their thing, sead packages cleaning up before you, migs & sus intercepting, awacs & jammers it's as live as you can get. As you approach the ip, the sams begin to get frisky and it's all business with your mfds at that point. The objective is a bridge with red lights, practically the only thing you can see in the darkness surrounded by sams up the wazzo and even when you manage to take out the bridge migs will be chasing you all the way back to the carrier. The point is a dc is overrated, the best you'll get is the same 7 kinds of missions to do this or do that and it get repetitive after a while. "yay.. another strike misssion to destroy some pixel called a factory in pyongyang. What difference did the 30 other factories I destoryed make? squat!". Granted the ultra lame editor in lomac makes creating a good mission a real challenge, but all the need to do is give us one like in jf18 not a DC.

[AndyHill]

Being unrealistic isn't so much of an issue, since in reality the flights could be redirected if necessary. Since Lock on doesn't do that the next best thing is to give the player the means to do so himself. I don't think a scripted campaign does a very good job of simulating a real pilot's role in a war, since the entire effort is halted until the pilot completes a set of mission objectives. In dynamic campaigns (many of them at least) the player is just one pilot and his actions have no more impact than for example the AI flights in the air during the same missions.

 

The one thing that is so badly missing in the scripted campaign is the tactical decision making. Perhaps pilots don't just choose what targets to strike on the fly, but sometimes circumstances certainly force a change of plans. Perhaps the primary target is too heavily defended and the correct shoice is to abort and go home or divert to a secondary target. Perhaps you're unlucky and stumble upon an enemy strike package and its escorts on the way and the mission turns into a hectic run for cover. I kind of think that being a fighter pilot in modern air combat (not referring to the sim, at least the way it's at the moment) is mostly about making quick tactical decisions based on information from different sources. Perhaps I'm wrong, I've never flown a fighter myself, but in Lock on that aspect pretty much doesn't exist. After one or two tries you know exactly what to do, you just try it enough times until you finally succeed.

 

Randomness in missions and branching campaigns help somewhat, but the replayability value isn't too high unless the campaign is already fairly dynamic. Any real percont with decent capabilities at building missions can create better missions than average dynamic campaign generators, the problem is what to do when the mission is over and you need to have hte next mission. Until I'm rich enough to hire a couple of 24/7 mission designers for my personal use I'm going to need a dynamic campaign generator for that.

 

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Lock on MUST have toe-brake functionality with differential braking!

[SUBS17]

. . . . . I'm not sure I mentioned the word random in there, but your point is noted.

 

SwingKid's campaign generator would do something similar to that - generate packages to attack targets, move the front line - but would do nothing for the battlefield immersion.

 

I'd go for battlefield immersion before being able to generate the rolling war (which, just for the record, I would indeed love to see).

 

Yeah my appologies for saying random, I'm spending a bit of time using AF at the moment and I get the impression alot of the functioning of a dc is by mathimatical probability when it comes to the outcome and fighting that goes on. The selection of missions though follows the pattern set out by the player or host. FC is ripe for a dynamic campaign as it has almost everything required to make it work however I think there are still some 3d models required in order for a war to work for a start. SKs idea is pretty cool but my belief is that F4s DC modified to include submarine warfare as well as adding in whole battalion selection is the way to go. That way you're making use of a whole battlefield and rather than placing individual tanks on the map you place whole battalions and companies. Increasing the immersion not only includes better comms but also automatic friendly traffic. The first time I saw this in action properly in lockon was on 169th Panthers Server where they had logistics aircraft flying into airfields. The other thing that is missing is individual friendly packages(because either people aren't there or the mission creator never placed any there).

[Orao]

The other thing that is missing is individual friendly packages(because either people aren't there or the mission creator never placed any there).[/Quote]

 

Or it is because your FPS are droping down because of the way the AI is manged in the Lockon.

[SUBS17]

How a Dynamic Campaign is so important

 

Ok heres a brief summary of what its like to use a DC:

We start the Campaign, I'm hosting 3 other players join in(thats enough for 1 flight of 4 aircraft).

The campaign kicks in and the clock is ticking, we have a selection of mission packages to choose from. OCA strike, CAS, FAC, etc.

So we select OCA strike and decide to hit an airfield. Coupled to our package is 1 flight of 4 F-15s as escort and a flight of 2 F-16s SEAD escort.

After reading the brief, studying the recon of the target and setting up munitions we comit to the mission. Timer accelerates to our rampup time.

Once in the pit, I begin ramping up the F-16 as do the rest of the players which takes 20 minutes. During this time 3xflights of F-16s take off, 1 flight of A-10s take off and 2x C-17s arrive. We take off in sequence and move in to take out the runway. I get shot down by a Mig 21. So I pick another package, and rejoin. After returing to base, we study who hit what, you can work out why something went wrong or who was successful. We check the schedule, pick another package and repeat the process. On the map you can see the effect of what you just did, Airfields dead no longer a threat or airfields still in action because everyone missed the second runway. That sort of thing, a dc is good and not impossible to create for something like lockon but ideally you need a multirole aircraft to make it worth while.(BTW the clock is still ticking and people can join other packages at any stage in the mission or exit and the ai takes over)

[Guest IguanaKing]

what's this battlefield immersion you speak of? Most of what happens in F4 outside the bubble is just the computer crunching numbers.

 

Well...I'm not speaking for Brit here, but I think I know what he's talking about. The COMs lend a great deal to the battlefield immersion factor, since you can actually hear what's going on around you. It also helps with immersion to know that whether you succeed or fail, as long as you land safely, you will advance to your next mission in the campaign. The huge drawback (which is a realistic, therefore good, drawback) here is, if you fail, it has an effect on the overall campaign, and just like it is IRL, some other guy is going to have to go back and do the job you couldn't do. Worse yet, if you were on a failed SEAD mission, you lose more planes from the follow-on strike package. On the other hand, in LOMAC, no matter how good the mission is that you design, you just keep flying the same mission, over and over again until you succeed. Then, in the next mission, you find that it is unaffected by what was done, or not done, in the previous mission.

[Oceandar]

Bah..

 

Agree 100% with the original post !! Lomac need DC and to be honest Lomac`s collecting dust in my HD right now because I don`t have any mission to play (I have played it dozen times) and no......its not fun flying my own mission.

 

Just for the record I`m an offliner --- see what I mean ?

 

Cheers

[KILSEK]

Hi all.

 

Is SwingKid's campaign generator available for d/l? I checked Lockon Files and Combat Ace and I did not see it. If it is available would someone be so cool as to post a link? Thanks, -KILSEK

[192nd_Erdem]

I don't think that's available for free download.Last time I checked,he wants a small charge for the generator.

[AndyHill]

Swingkid's generator is free AFAIK. The only problem is that it's not ready for download yet. You can download an early version of his previous generator, but it's pretty much a technology demonstrator only. I think what he's working on now will be very different.

 

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Lock on MUST have toe-brake functionality with differential braking!

[Guest ruggbutt]

We're still waiting impatiently for the main release. :D

[Orao]

Sorry guys but as it's now Lockon is just technological demostrator. It's good for making movies and play it online (if you can find ppl to fly with you).

 

The huge map which was so hardly coded is completly useless. I mean it's just like a big schoolyard and you are playing alone against 3 or 4 AI.

 

Attack missions have no immersion. You can set up air defenses but it will be only limited to the engaged unit or you can say bye bye to the FPS. You feel alone out there. No chatter.

 

Maybe we don't need necessarly a dynamic campaign but at least give us some decent editor which uses triggers and doesn't allocate system ressources to the AI if the unit isn't on the map.

 

Imagine this :

 

You set up the attack mission. Objective is the enemy fortified position across the river. In case of success armored forward elements of your army will advance to establish the bridge head. If you fail to inflict enough of dammage the armored units will call for CAS and will wait for Apaches or Cobra to reach the zone before launching the attack.

 

In this editor we can't program any kind of tree. It's all or nothing. Moreover if we want to simulate WW3 and Day 1 such it was described in Tom Clancy's Red Storm we would not have been able to take off because of FPS. Now don't tell me it is because off all eyecandy coz I'm willing to play without if I can have a very high number of units on the map but I can't.

[SUBS17]

I think a semi-dynamic campaign is possible with v1.2 because quite simply the area that you're operating in is much smaller. So to make a gunship campaign dynamic is not as difficult. Longbow2s campaign was dynamic and was probably the best for a helicopter sim ever made. So whats needed is basically a large amount of ground targets in the area, both friendly and enemy. A campaign clock that can be stopped and started, as well as a mission list and aircraft to assign for the tasks. So the Ka50 might involve 2 or 3 squadrons with missions involving escort,FAC, cas, special forces and deep strike. Outside the campaign map(which is much smaller than the lockon map) is hidden support elements for both sides. This might include reinforcements and fixed wing elements. You start the campaign, known enemy positions are on the map, you pick a mission and carry it out. On completetion you might land at a FARPs or airbase. You hit escape and see a mission debrief. From there the next page is back to package selection and on the map units are moving while the clock is still ticking. As default packages might start with the closest enemy units at first as default while S&D missions automatically go after targets of greater value such as enemy FARPs, supply convoys and artillery. Another possiblity is the user selecting which aircraft in the squadron goes where and has to manually input the waypoints which would make it simpler to make. Of course online the campaign must be compatible and not require client designation like F4.(all F-16s are client/player/AI. Then a campaign can be played online and in real time, SU25s, A-10s etc could also take part but be limited to the campaign area.(could also go as far as making the pilots for fixed wing aircraft setup their own waypoints and missions then they can take part without any large modifications to the campaign.)

[diveplane]

http://www.flightlevel350.com/viewer.php?id=2729

 

 

this baby looks awesome to fly, cant wait

[Rastus]

I suggest to those who are bored with the missions to come online & fly in hyperlobby. There seems to be a trend towards combined air & ground missions being hosted at the moment by several servers, and they are awesome missions.

I have experienced everything that is being talked about, in regards to DC missions, online. Yes you do get calls for help & need to divert. Due to human players, a mission is never the same twice. Most of the missions are fairly hard & require multiple (combined) strikes with CAP support. SEAD work & even the "Wild Weasel" are all a part of completing your objectives. With comms programs like Teamspeak or Ventrilo you can experience the teamwork & interaction that no DC can ever produce

 

Yeah, a DC would be nice for offline play but it probably wont happen. I was the same as some of you, just playing the same missions occassionaly trying to make them harder. Now that I fly online, the CD lives in my drive again & I get that satisfaction I was looking for when flying this awesome simm.

 

Cheers

Rastus

 

PS. Hanging out for the hele, looks great so far. Any more pics available?

[AndyHill]

Online co-op missions can be great, but I'm used to playing dynamic campaigns online in Sturmovik and that can be even better.

 

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Lock on MUST have toe-brake functionality with differential braking!