KaspeR32 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 We have no idea what is running these simulators, but I am pretty sure they are probably running on machines much greater than your average homer users PC. lol. Do you wanna read that sentence again? It's amazing what happens when people make assumptions. :) Basically, your definition of being "behind" is... weird... since it would require that you know the answers to these questions. Do you? my personal guess is that they're running something completely different for physics (or perhaps something that the Mi8 physics was derived from later, who knows), and had a rendering cluster to run the dome around the fullsize pit. Seems like we are all assuming things. I'm just assuming something different than you. You guys are funny. Intel i5-2500k @ 4.4GHz w/ H70 liquid cooler, ASRock PRO3-M Z68 Mobo, 32G 1600Mhz Mushkin RAM, EVGA GTX970 4GB , OCZ Agility 3 128g SSD, SanDisk 240g SSD, Win7 64-bit --Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/livingfood -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted March 4, 2014 ED Team Share Posted March 4, 2014 lol. Do you wanna read that sentence again? If that is all you took from my comments, a spelling mistake, than some other assumptions I made have just been proven true. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) If that is all you took from my comments, a spelling mistake, than some other assumptions I made have just been proven true. I think he was referring to the juxtaposition of 'no idea' and 'I am pretty sure'. Also known as 'meteorologist' speak! Edited March 4, 2014 by cichlidfan ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted March 4, 2014 ED Team Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) I think he was referring to the juxtaposition of 'no idea' and 'I am pretty sure'. Either way, shows why the thread landed back in chit chat ;) And its true... I have 'no idea' what they would run those sims with, BUT it is also true that 'I am pretty sure' (being my best guess) its on machine(s) much greater than the average user here... Edited March 4, 2014 by NineLine Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaspeR32 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I think he was referring to the juxtaposition of 'no idea' and 'I am pretty sure'. Also known as 'meteorologist' speak! Correct. Either way, shows why the thread landed back in chit chat ;) And yeah, that's the only reason I was speculating in the first place. You said only news while it was in DCS: World forum, I respected that ;) Intel i5-2500k @ 4.4GHz w/ H70 liquid cooler, ASRock PRO3-M Z68 Mobo, 32G 1600Mhz Mushkin RAM, EVGA GTX970 4GB , OCZ Agility 3 128g SSD, SanDisk 240g SSD, Win7 64-bit --Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/livingfood -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted March 4, 2014 ED Team Share Posted March 4, 2014 Correct. And yeah, that's the only reason I was speculating in the first place. You said only news while it was in DCS: World forum, I respected that ;) Right... respect... I remember now. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suchacz Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) I saw an HW core of a current (censored) full mission military-grade simulator at an (censored) AFB and it looked like this: + some linked PCs Edited March 4, 2014 by Suchacz Per aspera ad astra! Crucial reading about DCS: Black Shark - Black Shark and Coaxial Rotor Aerodynamics, Black Shark and the Trimmer, Black Shark – Autopilot: Part 1, Black Shark – Autopilot: Part 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I saw an HW core of a current (censored) full mission military-grade simulator at an (censored) AFB and it looked like this: ... + some linked PCs Keep in mind that government procurement cycles take so long that the hardware is not even remotely current tech. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra847 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 There are absolutely no indications that what we've seen so far is not able to run on consumer-level tech. Nicholas Dackard Founder & Lead Artist Heatblur Simulations https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALDEGA Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Servers with floppy drives, how nostalgic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Just look at those floppy disk drives! i7 7700K | 32GB RAM | GTX 1080Ti | Rift CV1 | TM Warthog | Win 10 "There will always be people with a false sense of entitlement. You can want it, you can ask for it, but you don't automatically deserve it. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suchacz Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Keep in mind that government procurement cycles take so long that the hardware is not even remotely current tech. Believe me, it is definitely not old or obsolete. It was build by the aircraft manufacturer and it was part of the aircraft delivery in 2005. Servers with floppy drives, how nostalgic. Okok, I didnt choose a good example of a high-end machine :D But the shape and size is quite right... Btw, floppys are more reliable backup medium than a CD or DVD. My friend found nearly fifteen years old FD and it was still readable! Edited March 4, 2014 by Suchacz Per aspera ad astra! Crucial reading about DCS: Black Shark - Black Shark and Coaxial Rotor Aerodynamics, Black Shark and the Trimmer, Black Shark – Autopilot: Part 1, Black Shark – Autopilot: Part 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TZeer Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 That's 9 years ago... that's obsolete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted March 4, 2014 ED Team Share Posted March 4, 2014 That's 9 years ago... that's obsolete. Maybe his point is that it wasnt then.... Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suchacz Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) That's 9 years ago... that's obsolete.In your humble opinion maybe... there are not much more newer or more advanced sims of that grade in the world. But thats not the point. I ment that military sims are built for other purposes and with totally different hardware architecture than our "toy" DCS World and profesional customers has other standards and priorities. But all that was said already... Edited March 4, 2014 by Suchacz Per aspera ad astra! Crucial reading about DCS: Black Shark - Black Shark and Coaxial Rotor Aerodynamics, Black Shark and the Trimmer, Black Shark – Autopilot: Part 1, Black Shark – Autopilot: Part 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Maybe his point is that it wasnt then.... Actually, it probably was. The specs of this stuff gets hammered out during the proposal phase. By the time it is built and delivered it is, at minimum, 3 to 5 years old already. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticfringe Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Servers with floppy drives, how nostalgic. Data security and control requirements kick in on military hardware. It's strange to see, but there are reasons behind it. And working daily with one of the primary architects on which the USAF's distributed simulator networks are based on, that's where I leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhe Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 The good old Supermicro servers. Worked with that stuff back in the day. The ones lower with the blue parts are Chenbro cases, several manufacturers used these. That tech was more or less the budget solution back then in approx 2004. If I look the servers I work on now, they have several orders of magnitude more power in about a quarter of the rackspace. And given what can be done graphically today, no footage we've seen so far is impossible on consumer hardware at the moment. If there are some impossibilities, I would assume them to be more on the CPU side. | i9 12900K | 64GB DDR5-6000 | STRIX RTX 4090 OC | LG 38GN950 38" | | Hanns-G HT225HPB | TIR 5 & Varjo Aero | Virpil Throttle & Stick | TM TPRs | You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted March 4, 2014 ED Team Share Posted March 4, 2014 Actually, it probably was. The specs of this stuff gets hammered out during the proposal phase. By the time it is built and delivered it is, at minimum, 3 to 5 years old already. Is it really obsolete if it meets all the requirements of the software it is pushing? Or did they get the simulator and say, what a piece of crap, running on obsolete computers... Its only obsolete if they higher ups say, "do we really need new servers or can we just run all our new stuff on those old boxes in the corner collecting dust". Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9.JG27 DavidRed Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 thx for posting the project 9 video! well, there are several scenes, which show maps we've already seen, so we can safely assume that this is EDGE right? about the visual quality, well its mindblowing, but the videos and screenshots wags has posted of the nevada map look just as stunning.so i assume that we will get similar quality on our home pcs. what i recognized in this, and all the other videos is, that the scaling feels different from what im used to, in the current dcs map... everything in those videos seems to be scaled differently than in our old engine...it looks much more realistic, and reminds me definitely much more of my real life flying... the question i have though is, is this due to a different FOV used?could be, but there are some scenes, where the FOV seems to be pretty wide, and still the scaling of objects, their height and general appearance looks way more natural than it does in the current map. i know luthier, and i think also wags said a few times, that this is one apsect they focused on,..so the question is, is it wrong in the current map? can we expect a real difference/improvement with the new engine, or is it just my perception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagrum Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) thx for posting the project 9 video! well, there are several scenes, which show maps we've already seen, so we can safely assume that this is EDGE right? about the visual quality, well its mindblowing, but the videos and screenshots wags has posted of the nevada map look just as stunning.so i assume that we will get similar quality on our home pcs. what i recognized in this, and all the other videos is, that the scaling feels different from what im used to, in the current dcs map... everything in those videos seems to be scaled differently than in our old engine...it looks much more realistic, and reminds me definitely much more of my real life flying... the question i have though is, is this due to a different FOV used?could be, but there are some scenes, where the FOV seems to be pretty wide, and still the scaling of objects, their height and general appearance looks way more natural than it does in the current map. i know luthier, and i think also wags said a few times, that this is one apsect they focused on,..so the question is, is it wrong in the current map? can we expect a real difference/improvement with the new engine, or is it just my perception? I don't know if this is somehow related (or maybe even just pure imagination on my part), but when flying helos like the Huey or the Blackshark, trees and houses seem rather small from within the cockpit. Like trees seem only to be 8-10 meters tall, double story houses even less. You know those industrial buildings, several storys tall, four huge chimneys that are all over the place? Shouldn't they be somewhat ... intimidating when circling around them in a tiny helo ...? Maybe it is just the lack of stereovision and depth perception (i.e. maybe I am not as close to the objects as I would expect), but maybe it is the texture quality as well? Up close, houses in Georgia look rather "toy-ish" and thus "must be small"? Funny thing is, when looking at such a scene from the outside (i.e. helo landed next to building), the sizes seem ok-ish ... Edited March 5, 2014 by Flagrum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9.JG27 DavidRed Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 exactly what i was trying to say... i use a FOV of 90° when inside the cockpit...but there are scenes in these EDGE videos, where the FOV seems to be as high, and still all the objects appear in good size, and the feel of altitude and distance towards this object seems about right...not so much in our current map... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Is it really obsolete if it meets all the requirements of the software it is pushing? Or did they get the simulator and say, what a piece of crap, running on obsolete computers... Its only obsolete if they higher ups say, "do we really need new servers or can we just run all our new stuff on those old boxes in the corner collecting dust". Perhaps obsolete is not the correct word. The fact remains that by the time the equipment is delivered, it is under-performing compared to what is currently available. It may still be adequate for the needs of the customer but it is still sub-par compared to current market products. Edited March 5, 2014 by cichlidfan ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suchacz Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 There are no scales or measurements to compare this highly dedicated one-purpose machine and your home PC. The word "obsolete" for sim's HW core has no meaning here. But you can call "obsolete" the sim for its value for the pilot's training. Per aspera ad astra! Crucial reading about DCS: Black Shark - Black Shark and Coaxial Rotor Aerodynamics, Black Shark and the Trimmer, Black Shark – Autopilot: Part 1, Black Shark – Autopilot: Part 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaliG Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 The key is into low or zero latency network viewports. All commercial simulators are using this technique in order to have huge resolutions with extreme graphics on multiple screens. We currently have this option only for instruments plus the huge latency, compared to commercial software that was build with this option as standard. But again, how many simmers are going to buy 6 high end pcs to run 6 monitors, plus a high end server to drive those 6 pcs? That is the difference between your high end PC and a commercial simulator. they just use multiple high end client PCs plus a server, but you are using just one to do everything. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] TaliG - 373vFS “Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances.” Sun Tzu, The Art of War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts