OPFOR "A Call to Arms !! "

[Boberro]

Was fun, no doubt. Such events give me immersion of Falcon, where you feel more to be at war.

[SVK_Fox]

Yes, it was fun.

[Serg23]

Please update link to server track...

 

:smilewink:

[104th_Crunch]

Tacview

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/600721/Opfor3.acmi

 

Track

http://mediafire.com/?00awledsfh182p4

 

:smilewink:

[Serg23]

Tacview

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/600721/Opfor3.acmi

 

Track

http://mediafire.com/?00awledsfh182p4

 

:smilewink:

 

Superb!

 

Thanks Crunch!

[Boberro]

Thanks all for nice flights :)

 

I posted some screens in Screenshot section, I didn't watch full track ofc ;].

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1351463&postcount=4633

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1351464&postcount=4634

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1351465&postcount=4635

 

Lol downloaded acmi and I see after crash game didn't recognize me again and I just fly into darkness, well can't see who chased me so well :[

Edited December 13, 2011 by Boberro

[yureg]

 

Track

http://mediafire.com/?00awledsfh182p4

 

:smilewink:

Thanks. Hope for some piloting skills.

Edited December 14, 2011 by yureg

[RIPTIDE]

 

Lol downloaded acmi and I see after crash game didn't recognize me again and I just fly into darkness, well can't see who chased me so well :[

Yes you can. Pick the last 'Bob!' on the Tacview menu. You can see you running back at (11:25). :)

[104th_Maverick]

 

I posted some screens in Screenshot section[

 

Awesome pics there Bob.. nice!!!

[BJ]

Thanks a lot guys!

It was fun

[borchi_2b]

well i wathced the tacview file, cause i did not have time to participate.

 

in shock i have seen how many missile were shot. i stoped counting.

 

mogas has shot in 3 hours exactly 60 amraams. mogas, sorry this is not ment to be offending, just counted, not more.

 

is it allways this way when events like opfor take place, that the poeple shoot tons of missiles and hit nothing?

 

if this ist an example how it would occure in reality, then i should change bussiness and produce AA missiles, worth missllions :-)

 

would there be any way to regulate this missile spamming in some way? so it is not just fly, shoot, turn and land. so that thought of tactics and effective missile employment would be more of a factor.

 

in our virtual squad we had a point balanced system developed ( thanks to 2 month of work, alot of drinks and the best wingman in the world ) we both were able to regulate with this list an outcome of such fights.

our people flew more tactical and choose wisely on thier tasks.

 

i guess what would be best, would be some script that only allows each pliot to rearm just once in a timeperiod of 3 hours, this would give the mission and the event more realism.

 

this is not attack on the event or the planers, it is just something that poped to my eyes when i watched the tacview

[RIPTIDE]

See Borchi.. missiles don't have to hit anything to do their job. If missiles make bandits turn and run on full gate for 40 seconds, burning their precious fuel and keeping them away denying airspace, they do their job. It's all about the big picture.

[104th_Crunch]

There is something good to be said about restricting the number weapons used to make you think about your choices, 51st's GI has this. There is also something good to be said that you don't have to spend time to count your missiles. I think an ongoing campaign is better suited to limiting resources than a one off mission.

 

Also, if realistically you had 8 missiles on your jet and your you were in danger of dying, your life ending for ever, I hardly think that you would be thinking, ah man, my squadmates are going to call me a spammer and the government is gonna be upset that I am wasting missiles. :)

[borchi_2b]

crunch, thats true, life and plane are first, thats true.

 

but when i look at this list, cause i made some counting, it is going to be very impressive, cause most of the times pictures change when you see things in numbers, and in the end, i guess some people will end up with thier open mouth, like i did

launched missiles BLUE:

 

AIM120C = 280x

AIM120B = 18x

AIM7 = 0x

AIM9 = 3x

 

R77 = 106x

R27ER = 12x

R27ET = 2x

R73 = 0x

--------------------------

total: = 421x

 

ARH = 418x

SARH = 0x

IR = 5x

 

HIT A2A (without ka50 hit) =

 

ARH = 12x

SARH = 0x

IR =

total = 12x

 

--------------------------

-----------------------

launched missiles RED:

 

AIM120C = 124x

AIM120B = 13x

AIM7 = 0x

AIM9 = 2x

 

R77 = 74x

R27ER = 43x

R27EM = 43x

R27ET = 20x

R73 = 6x

 

-------------------------

total: = 325x

 

ARH = 211x

SARH = 86x

IR = 28x

 

HIT A2A (without ka50 hit) =

 

ARH = 9x

SARH = 0x

IR = 2x ( ET 1x ; R73 1x)

 

total = 11x

 

 

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

 

this is very impressiv i think just for 3 hours of fighting.

 

EDIT:

this is no attack on the event, just something i wondered about, which actually brings up the question if any squad, which wants to fly more tactical would like such event

 

 

this is something we planed on our stats for our own internal squad event and a reason why we decided to make some regulations, similar to the idea the 51st have, but still way diffrent to thier system. we planed our own internal event nearly 2 years ago, or maybe even longer, cannot remember to be honest

 

Edited December 16, 2011 by borchi_2b

[Case]

I haven't seen the scoring rules for OPFOR, but I recall that for (some of) the LOCERFs the missiled that were launched were tallied and substracted from the score. I don't think it affected the way people played though.

 

In Georgian Incident we employ a limited stock pile, but also a two take off rule; during one 3 hour event you can take off only twice. This puts some very interesting constraints on planning, as it requires the flights to be spread out over the event. The other thing is when you are actually flying; you are extra careful with your fuel and weapons and trying to decide when the best time is to RTB for a refuel and rearm. With the Su-27's we routinely fly missions of over 75 mins in length, and even longer when we fly 33's and can refuel in the air.

 

On our public server I've instated weapon limits about a year ago. Each month each pilot can use 100x AIM-120B, 100x AIM-120C and 200x R-77. There are no limits on other weapons. This rule alone has had quite an effect on some of the F-15 pilots which would usually load 8xAIM-120C. However, since we put an 80's mission in rotation not that many pilots reach the weapons limit.

[borchi_2b]

hey case, that are awesome ideas. we managed it by a pointsystem. this meassured also the effectivness of a pilot, do to missile employment and so on and so on, and all took an effect on the whole team. we had alot of fun and the longest time we were airborne was, nobody could believe it, nor we did after we saw the results, 2hours 5min with a mig29, which we only took twice in 8 events. most of the time we took su27. we also had limitations on the time on the ground. we said. 10 minutes for refuel and rearm. this way people could smoke or go get a beer or even go to the toilet. normally jets take on a rearm in reallife nearly 30min, we know cause we have some airforce guys in the squad. when you had been shotdown, you had to stay at ground 15min i guess. i have the rules somewhere. but it gave both sides alot of possibilities. we made punch counts on early TO also. so some people shot down 2 enemies, but still ended up with a really bad score, cause the diciplin , well it was laggin :-)

 

so further we even did some other stuff, but i do not want to tell too much, cause 2 month of work, well there is alot we planed and balanced out, so that it would be really fair for all, does not matter which plane you flew. all had the same circumstances :-)

 

but your idea reminds me of our own thing :-)

 

unfortunatly we only flew it squad internal, so max was like 8 on both sides. we even set up flieghts in favour for the other side, cause people did not show up, so it was on the few pilots left to make the job, and guess what, you can make alot of trouble with 4 vs 7 :-)

[Cali]

well i wathced the tacview file, cause i did not have time to participate.

 

in shock i have seen how many missile were shot. i stoped counting.

 

mogas has shot in 3 hours exactly 60 amraams. mogas, sorry this is not ment to be offending, just counted, not more.

 

This is amazing, how close where the bases, right next door to each other :D? That's 20x120's an hour, he must have taken off fire 8, landed and repeated for this to happen. That doesn't seem right, that's 15mil dollars :huh: if each 120 cost $250k :music_whistling:

[borchi_2b]

well just count what the tacview says, thn you will see, 60

 

this is not meant as an offense

 

but when you shhot 2 missiles at each bandit in spacings like 1 - 5 sec then you acctually only shot at 30 bandits, with little effect.

just shows me that he is really scacred of a last ditch and then a bandit that overruns him :-)

 

edit:

thats why i said, when this would be something close to reallity, i would change buissiness and produce AA missiles instead :-)

but in reallity only 17 aim120 were shot to this day, as far i know of in combat :-)

[RIPTIDE]

with little effect.

just shows me that he is really scacred of a last ditch and then a bandit that overruns him :-)

 

Borchi. Have you flown in online FC2.0/FC1/Lockon events? And if so, which ones?

[Cali]

I have and I don't think that anyone ever came close to firing 60 missiles, but then again I never went back and counted. A lot of times 1 missile isn't going to kill a bandit, so I understand about firing a second one.

[borchi_2b]

well it has passed some time since then. i do not know which event it was. it was a locerf even back in the old fc1.12b days. i flew together with tomcatz in a su27 so it is at least 2 or 3 years since i last participated in such event.

 

i remember that in the first 30min the server crashed like 2 times or so.

 

even 2 other squadmembers flew at the locerf, raven and maverick i guess. but too much time has passed since then. but a reason why we did not participate such events in the past was such mindblowing misslespamming. what we actually thought of, would be some coordinated stuff in addition with aci or gci . we have some guys who do that for living in the luftwaffe, and it is interesting when you are directed by real gci guys.

 

you feel that you are actually nothing more then a tool. no freedom like most of the times when you fly without them. you are just there and do what they say. and employ weapons, or when you are lucky he says, free to engage and you are cut loose, but as far you first have to id, do to ROEs, then you are still under control of some other dude :-)

[borchi_2b]

well cali i counted, cause that are things i meassure a good and a bad pilot also. or everage, bla bla bla. but that are things you can use to see how people fly, and not much change in the behavior of the f15 flyboys. just fire spamramms and turn and come back and over and over again.

 

when the amraam would be something close to real, then without target lock by its own radar or datalink contact, it would shut down its system at 3 sec. then the missile would be just expensive trash, nothing more :-)

when there would be some more realism, in missile behaviour, as far we talk about ARH, people would employ weapons way different and do not just spam missles all over the place, cause you cannot just turn and burn when the missile is not pitbull, which is easy to estimate in a russian plane or as a good pilot. shot at 45km, the missile goes pitbull at a range between both aircrafts of about 30km. when you know that as a pilot, you notch the opponent and the possible missle shot via tws is gone the toilet. this way you force the opponent into the NEZ of your own weapons :-)

 

alot of change comes as far the DCS fighter is on the market and things are as close as possible to reality, and we will see alot of change in the behavior of the pilots in fights, believe my words or not, but we will all see :-)

[RIPTIDE]

---well it has passed some time since then---

Right. Well if you don't mind, I'm going to have to discount your opinion. Some of the biggest "spammers" 1)Got kills 2)Survived 3)Denied airspace :thumbup:

 

 

But see, Borchi. Me and you both know that your Angle of attack here is the F-15C + AIM-120C. You don't like the F-15C do you?

Edited December 16, 2011 by RIPTIDE

[borchi_2b]

i like the labino, it is still one of my 3 all time favourite military airplanes, but what i do not like is that an unrealisitc flaw of this sim is used as spamming :-)

 

thats a reaon why we had some regulations in our internal event.

 

about your account, well when i take a shoot gun and fire 5 times in a very short period at something moving at a range 40m, even in a firefight fight in close quarter combat in an urban area, i can garantee, that one of all the little fragments will hit the target. that does not mean that i am a good gunner, that only means that i am smart like a monkey

 

here a link :-) and it is no fake, it is from a study:

 

 

 

for the tactical thought of air combat, the tacview shows basically nothing really segnificant.

 

that is pointed to all the spammers, does not matter if it is an r77 or an aim120, the spamming itself was done by all kinds of planedrivers, no matter what model they choose :-)

so it is not just an f15 flyboy behavior.

 

in such a huge event, i think that such spamming is owrth nothing, i mean, when i see it right, nearly all ground assets were lost, but why?

 

i saw no CAP setup, no backup, nothing which would be set up in real combats. nothing. no real escort, as far i could see it.

 

so the main goal should have been for all the pilots to make an open gap with pressing, of maybe 5 min, so that the grounders could have employed thier SEAD weapons in a good manner, then the space would have been opened for air dominance, maybe, depends on the skills of the opponents, and thier mature tactic, or thier mature flexability to the situation :-)

 

thats all.

if there is no such thing like tactical planing, then i do not need to announce such big thing, but just say, ok, lets have a meeting at day x or y and lets fill the server on both sides and lets have a happy shooting.

i remember, from the locerf we attended, that we had at least 2 meetings where tactics were talked about for some time, and a big plan and a big picture was drawn. do not know though if this was dne this time, so i can not make any comment about it at all.

 

if there was a planing, it was not possible to see it in the tacview, sorry for that

 

again, i do not want to attack anybody, but such shootputs keeps our squad for example at the point of not attending such event, cause we want to have some good planing and also some tasking, otherwise it is boring to take off 8 times in 3 hours. that something i can do every weekend night, when servers are filled a littlebit

[RIPTIDE]

lol. There was planning. Some red flights had a plan. You can definitely see that. Blue flights also had a plan. We had planning on the forum. Escort: you can see that also. Some other stuff said there that leads me to:

 

You can't interpret Tacview/ACMI. The only thing you have done is count missile shots. Everything else you say is trolling. You say that you don't do online events, yet come in here with lots of Hurr Durr Derp Derp. Sounds like a load of Butthurt to me.