Two MS FFB2 with Cougar Grip

[ArtMan_NL]

Made my casing from 9mm mdf. Make your internal measures 25mm x 25mm x 28mm high. Extra room is helpful when fitting it all in! Am looking at casting a lead weight for a nw counter weight.

 

 

Hi Molivitch,

 

I think you mean: 250 x 250 x 280 mm. Otherwise you have a very small case :)

[molevitch]

Hi Molivitch,

 

I think you mean: 250 x 250 x 280 mm. Otherwise you have a very small case :)

 

AAAAhhh hahahah, no wonder I cannot fit the FFbs in my case....

 

:lol:

 

Thank you for that. I spend too much time too tired recently. Good thing I am not a surgeon!

 

Anyway, after you have done your Cyclic Constructor Manual, and we have a crew of well equipped Helo Pilots, I will show you all my Collective Build in detail. Fun with wiring matrix, use up your left over potentiometers from your cut up MSFFBs.

 

I want to suggest swappable Cyclic grips and Collective Switch-Boxes, with a round plug at the top of the cyclic stick.... Am looking at multi-pin plugs which do this, with a screw together collar or bayonet!

 

And of course we should fly together! I am English, you are Dutch, I think there are French here, and others. It will be like the Russian Foreign Legion!

[ArtMan_NL]

AAAAhhh hahahah, no wonder I cannot fit the FFbs in my case....

 

:lol:

 

Thank you for that. I spend too much time too tired recently. Good thing I am not a surgeon!

 

Anyway, after you have done your Cyclic Constructor Manual, and we have a crew of well equipped Helo Pilots, I will show you all my Collective Build in detail. Fun with wiring matrix, use up your left over potentiometers from your cut up MSFFBs.

 

I want to suggest swappable Cyclic grips and Collective Switch-Boxes, with a round plug at the top of the cyclic stick.... Am looking at multi-pin plugs which do this, with a screw together collar or bayonet!

 

And of course we should fly together! I am English, you are Dutch, I think there are French here, and others. It will be like the Russian Foreign Legion!

 

:thumbup:

 

Molevitch, you just designed the smallest stick on earth with the new Intel 14 nanometer technology :D Thats why your case was so small :D

 

As a matter of fact I like to remind you to this site: Leo Bodnar

 

This guy designed top notch equipment for all DIY flightsim enthusiasts. All plug and play with built in drivers for Windows 7/8. With those prints you can make your own collective, switchboards and so on. Extremely easy for non-technicians too.

 

I'm very happy for you you could solve the problems. At this moment flying for me will be a little difficult because I just disassembled the Cougar. I'm always amazed about the built quality of such a expensive stick. Unbelievable.

 

I'm sure we will fly together. I'm very curious about your experience with the stick. Does the Huey fly easier now?

 

/Arthur

Edited April 4, 2014 by ArtMan_NL

[ArtMan_NL]

having a question about size to plan this mod :

what is the total height from counterweight base to upper of the stick case ?

with the counter weight moving, what is the diameter of this move ( to see the min wide and long of the case) ?

 

 

I'm afraid I did a miss calculation about the height. :(

 

If I look to my weight, I need almost twice the height I first mentioned to you. But it is just a raw and quick calculation.

[molevitch]

I'm afraid I did a miss calculation about the height. :(

 

If I look to my weight, I need almost twice the height I first mentioned to you. But it is just a raw and quick calculation.

 

I just ordered a doorstop with handle from amazon, declared weight 1.2 kg or so. I ordered it because it has a centre drilled hole in top and a screw in handle. I figure it will be about 8-9cm high. I currently have a homemade weight which is about 7cm high. It for the overall height of the assembly, you have to work it out according to what you get to complete your build. My build has been an ongoing project for about 12 months to date. And still not finished. It's not like buying a stick and saying "oh, that's it then?". We can adapt and add and customise and upgrade as we can. But we need to be flexible, adaptable and creative!

 

So you have to assemble your core components, and measure up and build a case to suit. As a designer, I was taught "Form Follows Function". Which is to say, the finished article is driven by what it has to do, and what you need to make it do it. And you have to coerce it to your will!

Edited April 4, 2014 by molevitch

[molevitch]

:thumbup:

 

Molevitch, you just designed the smallest stick on earth with the new Intel 14 nanometer technology :D Thats why your case was so small :D

 

As a matter of fact I like to remind you to this site: Leo Bodnar

 

This guy designed top notch equipment for all DIY flightsim enthusiasts. All plug and play with built in drivers for Windows 7/8. With those prints you can make your own collective, switchboards and so on. Extremely easy for non-technicians too.

 

I'm very happy for you you could solve the problems. At this moment flying for me will be a little difficult because I just disassembled the Cougar. I'm always amazed about the built quality of such a expensive stick. Unbelievable.

 

I'm sure we will fly together. I'm very curious about your experience with the stick. Does the Huey fly easier now?

 

/Arthur

Hi Artman,

 

Yes, I have used the Bodnar board in my Collective stick. I originally planned to use boards out of a Xbox type controller, 2 mini joystix, but they proved less useful thana load of switches connected to the bodnar board.

 

All choppers are now a joy to fly and control. I cannot believe I wrestled with faulty wiring foe almost a year! I had double reversed the pots.... When I extended the cabling I forgot that I had already swapped over near the pots. I must have had a couple of nights separation between the wiring stages, and not checked what I had done.

 

Anyway, its solved now!

[ArtMan_NL]

All choppers are now a joy to fly and control. I cannot believe I wrestled with faulty wiring foe almost a year! I had double reversed the pots.... When I extended the cabling I forgot that I had already swapped over near the pots. I must have had a couple of nights separation between the wiring stages, and not checked what I had done.

 

Anyway, its solved now!

 

Nice to hear :thumbup:

 

This week I made some progress.

 

The counterweight. 1,5 kg.

 

 

 

A disassembled Cougar. Some self made parts and on the left side a 20mm alu. tube.

 

 

Assembled it will look like this:

 

 

On the other side the alu. tube will be mounted on the upper force feedback. Today I ordered a rubber shift boot for an Amarican truck. I'm afraid I have to wait 2 ~ 3 weeks till I receive it from the U.S.

 

 

Assembled it will look like this:

 

 

 

That's all till now :)

[molevitch]

Hi Arthur, I envy your lathe access!

 

I used this as a counterweight,by cutting the handle down and then epoxy gluing the shaft into the lower FFB shaft. Its a little over 1kg, but I am not using the Cougar, but the CHFlightstick. Its handy too, as the handle is centred and screws off. Got it through Amazon needless to say. £7.65/€8.00 or so.

 

Your build is going to be very neat and professional I think. I look forward to seeing the final result.

 

Good work!

 

M:thumbup:

[ArtMan_NL]

Thanks :)

 

I just have luck with the lathe from a customer but without it your door stopper is as good as well and it saves you a lot of time. I had almost the same but the inside of that door stopper was from a very hardened material. I couldn't make a threat in it. I think it was made from old German tanks :)

 

After all to make this mod nicely it costs me a lot of time and I'm still no flying and enjoy the Huey or the Shark like you.

 

I like the CH hardware and in the past I had the Fighterstick and Pro throttle. It's waayyyyy better than that stuff from Thrustmaster. Just have a look at the pots they used.

[ArtMan_NL]

I'm back again with some updates :)

 

It's very quit in this topic, I hope I didn't make other users scared with my manual :D

 

It took quite a while to show you some pictures again but it was a lot of work to finish the console.

 

I brushed the console with my Wagner paint brush. The outside satin black and the inside satin white which give you a better view when you have to do some service. (And after all I had to do that.... After finishing installation I discovered one of the potentiometers went lose in the frame :doh:. I had to disassemble everything!)

 

 

 

After finishing the console I prepared the print from the Cougar. I made a small frame and painted it black.

 

 

Then I made 4 threaded ends for hanging the complete assembled MSFFB 2 frames.

I think this way is far more stable and stronger then the 4 plywood screws PeterP used for his set up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In this stage I made the console 100 mm shorter. It was just to high for putting it behind my chair.

 

[ArtMan_NL]

Then I started with extending the wires from the grip.

 

 

 

Here I finished my MSFFB 2*2 mod. As you can see I made the console shorter.

 

 

Now I have to do the configuration in DCS world and some further testing. I keep you informed guys. I hope I will see other mods here soon :pilotfly:

 

/Arthur

[molevitch]

Hi Artman,

 

I am away in Morocco with my wife and son for Easter holiday. I have been keeping an eye on dcs forum of course!

Your English is very correct, better than my Dutch....

The build is looking very professional. Very wise to paint the interior!

 

I do wonder if you will want to have a longer "throw" on the stick? Not a criticism, but I started with a 20 cm extension on my WH grip, but now find the 40cm or more (from memory) gives me some fine control, especially for the Huey/Ka50/Mi8.

 

I will probably do second build of FFB stick when I have time. I want to build my own grips next time, and have them plug on to the stick head. Bodnar board in the base for all the switch and hat functions for each. And maybe hook a collective up to that too. Pedals build....? Hmmmm.

 

Keep up the good work, and the great pics of your progress. I look forward to hearing about your first flying impressions of the stick.

 

M.:pilotfly:

[C6_Hellfrog]

Very "pro" look for this work ! Congrats.

 

One thing I'm asking about is a possible "rumbling or vibration phenomenon" because of the weight of the cougar stick and the extend above the FFB mechanism. Is there any or not when you activate the Trim ? Is there any move around the stick locked position just after trimming before being stabilized or does it stay there without any move nor any kind of rumbling ? something I experienced with normal FFB without any modding, even if it was not a problem for piloting the aircraft, it was something that bored me in some maner. Do you notice any ?

[DayGlow]

Dumb question about the issue of using 2 separate FFB2 Sticks:

 

Could you split the incoming USB signal to the 2 boards so that they both receive the input signals, but windows only sees a single MS FFB2? Basically a Y-adapter so you are running them in parallel?

[ArtMan_NL]

@Molevitch,

Enjoy your holiday in Morocco. I think you needed that holiday after all the problems with our stick :)

 

I´m afraid you are right about the longer "throw". I did a small test flight and the Ka-50 was rock stable instead the Huey.... That thing went everywhere. Unfortunately I have an another problem as well. My framerates are far to low with my ATI videocard. A common problem as far as I can see on this forum. Tonight I will get an Nvidia videocard to solve this problem. Then I will continue my testing.

 

In the meantime I will try to lower my console and make the stick longer. Thanks for mention that possible problem with my setup :thumbup:

 

@C6_Hellfrog: Thanks mate.

 

I never had that before about activate the trim and vibrating so neither did I with my modified stick. However I do have some movement in the locked position. But when you have a long stick I think it doesn´t bother you anymore. I´m afraid Molevitch is right about that point. My extension is to short due to a high console I made. I couldn´t make my extension longer because your arm has to rest on your upper leg during flying. 2 chopper pilots told me that was the trick to better chopper flying. Also in real life a chopper is a thing that wants to kill you when you are not skilled enough :D

 

So, there is still some engineering to do at my side :noexpression:

 

First I´ll do some further testing with my Nvidia card when I pick it up tonight. High framerates is absolutely necessary when flying a chopper.

 

@Dayglow: There are no dump questions here in this topic.

 

I think it is not possible because every USB controllerboard has his own hardware ID. It is not a one way communication to the controllerboard. The controllerboard will communicate back to windows.

 

And what's the deal? You only save 1 cable and 1 USB port.

[DayGlow]

Nope, just thinking of how to make it less complex and more likely to work with other sims that don't activate all FFB controllers.

[sydost]

Nope, just thinking of how to make it less complex and more likely to work with other sims that don't activate all FFB controllers.

 

 

For that I think you have to do this mod to the MSFFB2.

http://www.simprojects.nl/ms_siderwinder_ff2_hack.htm

 

I've been thinking about doing that one but I think it is a bit out of my league so maybe I will stick to the two MSFFB2 style presented here.

[lxsapper]

For that I think you have to do this mod to the MSFFB2.

http://www.simprojects.nl/ms_siderwinder_ff2_hack.htm

 

I've been thinking about doing that one but I think it is a bit out of my league so maybe I will stick to the two MSFFB2 style presented here.

 

The only problem is that unless we go for the hack we will be limited to using it in DCS. Other sims don't copy the x axis behavior of a FF controler over to the another one. Wich is better in my opinion, I think RoF suports (don't quote me on it) FF rudder pedals, even though none exists. Something DCS cound copy actually, eggbeater pilots would benefit wonders from FF pedals as well as cyclics.

[Home Fries]

Guys, here's an idea:

 

Since PeterP proved that it's possible to add Hall sensors to the SWFFB PCB, suppose the project kept the existing pots on the SWFFB2 so that a sidewinder stick could be selected for sims such as RoF, but have the hall sensors provide XY data to the cougar? This would provide XY data to both sticks, and you could choose which one to use for the sim. The issue of the second FFB motors may not be solved, but at least you could match the motors to the stick of choice (i.e. SWFFB2 for RoF and Cougar for DCS). This also would allow you to maintain your TARGET programmability for the Cougar, allowing use of classic sims that support only one controller, or even applying the XY offset commands in TARGET for center mounted sticks.

 

For sims that don't support FFB, you could run simFFB_64.exe in the background. You wouldnt get effects, but you would get centering and force-based trimming.

[ArtMan_NL]

Since PeterP proved that it's possible to add Hall sensors to the SWFFB PCB,

 

I'm looking for rotary Hall censors which are easier to mount and more accurate. Unfortunately those hall rotary censors are quite expensive.

 

I keep searching for cheaper ones.

[molevitch]

I'm looking for rotary Hall censors which are easier to mount and more accurate. Unfortunately those hall rotary censors are quite expensive.

 

I keep searching for cheaper ones.

Hi Artman, and everyone here,

 

I think i might have used a Hall sensor in my collective build, scavenged from my CH flightstick cannibalisation....

 

Try here,

 

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productListing.jsp?SKUS=2314588,2314589,2314590,2319659,2319660,2319661,2319662,2319663,2319665,2319666,2319667,2319668,2319669,2319670,2319671,2319672,2319673,2319674,2319675,2319677,2319678,2319679,2319680,2319681,2319682

 

Prices seem reasonable? what gpu did you get and how is it? I thinking of upgrading to the 780ti....

 

Re: compatibility of dual ffb stick with other sims.... I for one don't have time or headspace for other sims any more. DCS gives me three great helos, A10, Su25, P51, and the catalogue is growing. That's enough for me!

[viper-lupi]

Hello, first i would like to thank Peterp and Artman for this incredible project, this is my version..

[viper-lupi]

With the first test of lower ffb i found this problem: the stick slam to the corners, in the guide of artman this mean who the wires from the potentiometers are wrong connected. But i copy the scheme from the photos of topic 166-167, What am I doing wrong?

[PeterP]

Please recheck everyting.

 

I did simply cut the wrires and reconected them as shown on the qouted drawing.

 

*Disclaimer: I'm not responsible for any damage you do!!! Don't copy everything blindly!! Make your own thoughts if everything makes sense what I have wrote and double-check everything !!*

 

This image I made is based on my memory:

 

like I said- "swap'n'mirror":

 

You should be able to reconnect them on-the-fly (while the USB is connected) to check what you have done - but make sure you removed the power before you do this!!! Than plug the power back in to do a test.

 

Extend the cables - so you can do this without pulling them all the time!

 

This shows my test- environment:

 

So- you can see that I had easy access to the cables all the time, and could reconnect cables if needed.- and I could test everything on-the -fly with the FFB-Test program.

 

 

If you provide me with clear photos of the connectors from the lower potentiometers (I don't feel like dismantle mine for you..;)) I can do a similar wiring drawing like above .

[ArtMan_NL]

My compliments !!!!! Wauww what a nice frame!

 

Can you please put the connectors on the print and show some picture's here? Then I can give you better support. I'm afraid there is something wrong.

 

Thanks,

 

Arthur