Two MS FFB2 with Cougar Grip

[Thadiun Okona]

I already mentioned that I did this mod, and also did the "give your FFB2 steroids" mod increasing current to both FFB2 units.

 

Also I realized that a counterweight would not work for me since the stick is on a moving platform. When the platform tilts left for example, the weight of the stick AND the weight of the counterweight would now be pulling the stick even harder left! My solution was springs. There isn't enough spring tension to center the stick, just enough to counter most of the weight of the grip.

 

Here is my stick, without it's skin:

 

 

edit: looked at pics before posting, you likely already did Roland's mod, at least part way...

 

You may not realize, but with relatively minor mods to the board you can get 400% the current/torque of the stock circuit and you only need a single MFSSII. Changes to the pcb are pretty minor, but you use your own power supplies (v easy... 24vdc power bricks) and dc motors.

 

Roland van Roy has this mod well documented, including motor recommendations and also has great explanations/examples/pictures of a better means of power transmission (often used in professional control loading setups), called 'shaft winding' where you use pulleys instead of gears, which are pretty easy to make. You drill cross hole through the driving shaft, a steel cable passes through hole and winds in shaft a few wraps before going to the bellcrank/pulley. Easy to achieve your desired torque/rpm ratio, but more importantly is free of all tactile report from meshing gear teeth and of course there is no backlash once you tighten the cable.

 

http://www.simprojects.nl/ms_siderwinder_ff2_hack.htm

Edited May 26, 2017 by Thadiun Okona

[TripRodriguez]

@DoveMan I'm going to be using a Cougar PCB for the Stick buttons. This is why there is an opening in the tube directly below the stick, I'm just going to run the PS2 cable externally. It won't be pretty but it will get the job done and the Warthog grip will remain unaltered so I can swap it onto the Warthog base when I'm using that instead.

 

@Okona Yes, Roland's mod had caught my attention earlier but I went for the solution I thought would take me the least amount of time to implement for now. Eventually, maybe over next winter, I will likely pick up another FFB2 and attempt to build a Roland FFB stick.

 

Okona do you happen to know anything about dead zone with the FFB2?

[sydost]

You have a nice airy construction. Where are the springs?

 

Okona do you happen to know anything about dead zone with the FFB2?

 

I have tried to investigate it earlier but to me it seems it is not adjustable. I think the deadzone might have been adjustable when the joystick had proper drivers (win 2000) but it is not possible with the drivers we have to use. Or then it is hardcoded to the joystick itself? When I have tried to ask others about the deadzone no one hadn't noticed it so maybe some units don't have it or then other people are insensitive to it ;) .

 

There is a workaround for DCS though. I have wired the middle connection from the top SWFFB2 pot to a Bodnar BU0836A board so I get the position info from there without the deadzone. DCS changed a bit a couple of updates ago and now you have to have at least one axis bound to a force feedback device for the force feedback to activate so I have bound my pitch and roll axes to the BU0836A and in addition I have bound the roll axis to my top SWFFB2. That results in small animation glitches on the in cockpit stick but otherwise works.

 

So if you have a Teensy board on your grip then I'd use that. I am not very good with electronics so it might be totally wrong to do it this way but it works for me and I got rid of that irritating deadzone.

[TripRodriguez]

The springs are small diameter, located directly underneath the 3/4" PVC that is directly below the lower motors. I'm happy to hear the dead zone isn't internal to the pots.

 

Sounds good on using a separate board for the actual signal, I wasn't sure about the possible negative effects that might occur if I tried that.

 

I have another much more important question: Windows calibration doesn't seem to affect my FFB2's. Is it working for you guys? It's possible this is because I was hitting "next" with the mouse instead of using an actual button on the stick but I just realized I can actually click the on-board buttons on the PCB's so I'm going to try that.

[sydost]

Sounds good on using a separate board for the actual signal, I wasn't sure about the possible negative effects that might occur if I tried that.

 

I haven't noticed any negative effects on my MSFFB2s. I have quite a long cable from the pots to my BU0836A board as the board is on my pedals so the long cable induces about 10 steps of jitter on a 12-bit resolution which I find acceptable until I am willing to buy another board to place it inside my joystick box.

 

I have another much more important question: Windows calibration doesn't seem to affect my FFB2's. Is it working for you guys?

 

If I remember correctly it doesn't do much. There is often a little bit of mechanical play at the MSFFB2 pot attachment so I had to manually align the pots so that the center position matches the stick center and then somehow fix the pots to that position (I used tape).

[TripRodriguez]

Thanks Sydost, I'll have to check that out.

[Thadiun Okona]

Hmm, I don't know any specifics on the deadzones, as far as I know there isn't one or else it would have worked weird with trim in the sim I was using (Condor, sailplane simulator). I can trim pitch fwd/back and there is no area that becomes unresponsive to inputs. If there were a mechanical deadzone, it would be very noticeable since I'm constantly changing the neutral position of the stick in pitch. It's possible that whatever sim you are using it in is imposing one digitally... hate when devs do that but it happens sometimes.

 

As to hot rodding one, yeah follow his formula... dude is an electrical engineer that knows a lot about FF systems and DIY in general. I've found some of those Glentek motors on ebay for as cheap as $200, but super high quality DC servomotors are *not* cheap. What makes the Glentek's so amazing is the helical armature, which prevents 'cogging' from the staters and windings lining up parallel to the axis. Most motors do not have that feature (and are much cheaper as a result), but this is a finicky application that req high quality (smooooth) torque.

[PolyGONtrauma]

As I am building a new dual control setup, I do not need my dual MS FFB2 setup as described in this thread. If anybody is interested in this setup, and doesn't want to build one by himself, I'll sell mine. Just PM me. :)

 

Edit: It is sold.

Edited January 8, 2019 by PolyGONtrauma

[Razi]

Regarding the deadzone, there seems to be a software/firmware built-in deadzone.

 

 

I've included a gif of the Y-axis where I am moving the stick smoothly through the center, with forces off, which reveals the deadzone as a slight pause in the movement of the indicator. I never stop moving the stick.

 

 

I am attempting to figure out how to reduce or remove this deadzone to stiffen up the sloppy play at the center. I'm considering the same bypass solution that @sydost posted that would help DCS receive a smooth input, but the center area of the stick would remain sloppy still.

 

 

Any ideas?

 

 

What I currently do in-game is trim the center away from the center point of the MSFFB2 and this creates the nice stiff and precise control/feeling that I'm wanting at the center. However, I run into issues with this method in the F/A-18C during landing as trimming to on speed moves the stick to the sloppy center area.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Razi

[T_O_A_D]

@PeterP Thanks for Pioneering this!

 

Is this the program your using to test your stick? It is asking for a payment, and even though it is cheap, I don't want to buy it and it not be the right thing.

 

 

https://download.freedownloadmanager.org/Windows-PC/CL-Eye-Driver/FREE-5.3.0.0341.html

Edited July 27, 2021 by T_O_A_D