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Damper and friction effects in force feedback for Black Shark


average_pilot

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I know I'm way late to the party here, but I've just got to chime in and say this program is amazing. My G940 has never felt better. Truly an excellent job you have done, AP.

 

My only regret is that is doesn't seem to work with Take On Helicopters. I spent some time yesterday trying to get it working, but ToH just won't relinquish FFB control. The two programs just kind of fight each other and I never was able to figure out a way to completely kill ToH's FFB. WHat a shame, because this is really excellent. I give it an 11 out of 10.

Jaximus Decimus , i had the same problem and i got to solve it.You can use ffb directly because TOH is constantly sending ffb inputs to the joy that overides the ffbsim forces.My workaround was to "lie" to TOH.Unbind your joystick to TOh, and create a virtual joystick with ppjoy.

http://wiki.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php?title=PPJoy_for_using_multiple_joysticks

and conect it to your joystick with ppjoyjoy http://vt.beckament.net/controller_software/PPJoyJoy-1.0.zip

Then in TOH , bind your controls to the virtual joystick, and use ffbsim conected to the real joystick ,no the virtual one.

In this way, each program are not interfering with the other one.

I made this for being able to use my g940 with freespace, some time ago, so i cant remember now all the details and procedures necesaries to do all this stuff, its a bit complex at the beguining, but there are lot of info on the net.I had it working with TOH and it was really nice.

Sorry if im not more specific but is late here... good luky. :thumbup:

Fly and let fly

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G'day average_pilot,

 

Thanks for SimFFB, I appreciate your work.

 

Is there a chance of implementing an option for both 'button trim' and 'progressive trim' at the same time?

 

Some aircraft (CH-47, B412) have both of these systems, with an AFCS trim hat and also a trim release button.

 

Cheers,

 

- Bear

Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

 

- Robert A. Heinlein

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average_pilot: Hopefully you are still active on this forum. If you are I had a question about your FFB program you were writing... I do not currently have or play this game, nor do I own a FFB joystick. However, I own a Logitech G27 Racing Wheel (FFB, or course). I wanted to be able to add some manual Friction/Damping force to it to use in non-force-feedback driving/racing games, and was curious as to whether your program is capable of this for a wheel controller? If not, is there a way I might be able to talk you into implementing it for me? Please respond as soon as you see this, as I am VERY anxious... I did not know this sort of thing was possible externally (outside of a game)...

 

Thank you so much in advance for your consideration, whether or not you will fulfill my request, if applicable.

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Right now the program assumes two ffb axes as it was initially thought to show ED what I wanted to have in black shark.

I'm not sure, but it probably works with a wheel without changing anything.

Anyway, I'll look into that.

 

I also would like to upload the source. It seems to be very useful for some people so I find unfair to restrict new modifications and enhancements to my almost non existent spare time.

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i really like the friction and dampening effect, but without the original trim function I can't use it.

Perhaps i missed something, but i guess it works instead of the original FFB function and the trim can't be used.

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  • 2 weeks later...
G'day average_pilot,

 

Thanks for SimFFB, I appreciate your work.

 

Is there a chance of implementing an option for both 'button trim' and 'progressive trim' at the same time?

 

Some aircraft (CH-47, B412) have both of these systems, with an AFCS trim hat and also a trim release button.

 

Cheers,

 

- Bear

 

 

+1!!! I fly UH-60's that have this feature, and I've been looking for a program that would do this for a long time. Thanks for the work already, as this is a great program for rotorheads!!

 

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I've just released a last version that includes the option to use both trimming methods simultaneously.

 

Also, I have tested it with my racing wheel and it works without specific modifications.

 

And I have released the source. It doesn't have any kind of license. So everybody use it freely to fulfill your needs. Although it would be sad if someone uses it on a commercial project.

You can find it attached to the first post of the thread. It's made with visual studio.

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My sincere thanks for their work.

Excuse my poor English, maybe I did not read properly, I understand that it has released a version that allows two simultaneous methods, and also the source code, but I only just find the source code.

 

I know that you have little time, but I can not avoid asking this question-plea, Do you intend to publish a version compiled for the G940 with simultaneous two methods of trimmer?

 

In any case, thank you very much for your work.

 

Greetings!

"If adventure is dangerous, try the routine. It is deadly."

Paulo Coelho.

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I think I'll better create a new thread at the appropriated subforum with all the files. In the meantime, there are links on the first post of this thread to the posts with the files.

 

There isn't a specific version for the G940 anymore. You can use any of the executables. The only difference is that for the G940 the first time you run the program the 'swap axes' option is unchecked.

(hmm... the label says 'swap axis' instead of axes, and during all this time nobody told me that. It's so shameful :()


Edited by average_pilot
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Many thanks to average_pilot for taking this on. I really love the MSFFB2 that I purchased a bit over a year ago for DCS BS, and now UH-1H. A couple of questions -

 

simFFB recognizes not only my MSFFB2, but also my Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals, which are not FFB. I don't seem to detect any difference with different simFFB settings. I'm not surprised, but wanted to double-check.

 

Also, could someone describe to me the meanings of the Spring Force, Damper Force, and Friction Force settings? Obviously, they different from the settings in DCS, such as Saturation (which I must admit I don't really understand either).

 

Am I right in thinking that, after Alt-Tabbing out of DCS once a mission has loaded and I'm ready to hit the Start/Fly button and starting simFFB.exe, that I "exit" out of simFFB, Alt-Tab back to DCS, and then hit Start/Fly? Just want to make sure I've got it right.

 

Thanks again!!

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Also, could someone describe to me the meanings of the Spring Force, Damper Force, and Friction Force settings? Obviously, they different from the settings in DCS, such as Saturation (which I must admit I don't really understand either).

 

I'm going to take a shot in the dark here, but based on the names i would assume that spring force is "back to center" force, damper force is a movement dependant force, so the faster you move your stick, the more force it produces to counter your movement, think of it as "moving through molasses" force. If my previous assumptions are correct, then friction is most likely like damper force, but not speed dependant, so simply a "hard to move" force.

Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two.

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Sobek hit the nail on it's head. - I can confirm it.

 

Best way to get a 'feeling' for it - change the settings on the fly without having DCS started and play around with them - each time you change something let it initialize again via

simFFB>> Options >> Init DirectInput

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Just configure the same button as trim in simffb and DCS.

As an added benefit, you can use curves and saturation in DCS and the joystick still trims correctly.

 

Sorry, but how do I configure the "T" for the Trim function in simFFB and add curves if I wish? I don't see those Options in simFFB.

 

Thanks!!

 

Daddy Schlich

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Sorry, but how do I configure the "T" for the Trim function in simFFB and add curves if I wish? I don't see those Options in simFFB.

 

Thanks!!

 

Daddy Schlich

?!?!

You should set your stick-button to trim - the same you configured it inside DCS, not the 't'-key.

 

read here about curves on a FFB stick:

 

Curves and dead-zones:

 

Never use curves and dead-zones on the FFB axis - leave it linear.

(at least in a Force-trim Helicopter)

Using a curve will mess up the proper behaviour of your stick, as the FFB is calibrated to the full range of the axis movement and smaller or shifting the axis read out will bring in a asynchrony in the stick movement to the reported position.


Edited by PeterP

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Sorry to ask but where is the last version link? the one from 6 July. Thanks!

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?!?!

You should set your stick-button to trim - the same you configured it inside DCS, not the 't'-key.

 

read here about curves on a FFB stick:

 

Sorry that I wasn't clear about my confusion. I was looking for somewhere in simFFB to configure my force-trim. I did not see anywhere to do so.

 

The answer may be that there is software associated with the FFB2 that did not come with my purchase from a private party. Is that right? If so, what's the best software for Win7/Win8 64-bit? And where to get it?? Thanks.

 

On the curves, I understand I should not mess with them for UH-1H. It's just that I understood that simFFB allowed you to do that, and I couldn't figure that out either!

 

Again, thanks for assistance!

 

Daddy Schlich

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Sorry to ask but where is the last version link? the one from 6 July. Thanks!
I added links to the application on the first post.

I think you meant 6 June.

 

Sorry that I wasn't clear about my confusion. I was looking for somewhere in simFFB to configure my force-trim. I did not see anywhere to do so.

 

The answer may be that there is software associated with the FFB2 that did not come with my purchase from a private party. Is that right? If so, what's the best software for Win7/Win8 64-bit? And where to get it?? Thanks.

 

On the curves, I understand I should not mess with them for UH-1H. It's just that I understood that simFFB allowed you to do that, and I couldn't figure that out either!

 

Again, thanks for assistance!

 

Daddy Schlich

The joysticks and buttons lists on the top of simffb's window allows you to select which button of which joystick will trigger the trim. FFB effects will always apply to the FFB joystick, of course.

 

There isn't extra software for the msffb2 in current versions of windows. Msffb2 came with software for win98 that could be forced to run on winxp. But nothing above winxp.

 

You are right about the curves, you can use them if you use simffb. But it means that you can set whatever curves and saturations you'd wish inside DCS, not that simffb includes curve settings.

You can use them because simffb always trims to the physical position of the joystick. DCS should do the same! (and add damper and friction :P)

 

Saturation can be used to limit the range of moment of the virtual stick. If you set it right, then when your real joystick is at one extreme, the virtual stick isn't still at the extreme. This translates into a reduction of sensibility and easier control but at the expense of losing a bit of range on the controls.

But remember, is a DCS option, not a simffb option.


Edited by average_pilot
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