Damper and friction effects in force feedback for Black Shark

[Altflieger]

Would it be possible to impliment this for new aircraft then? I'm thinking of DCS Europe 1944 whose aircraft fm's are being worked on now by Yoyo. I disagree with your pessimistic view about FF. It will only take someone to make a stick and rudder unit (seat, stick and pedals, like a go cart with no wheels that has a fully working forceback system, and you as developers could find yourselves playing catchup. There are various people interested as this thread shows, (but sadly not the manufacturers of the current very expensive toys) so it's only a matter of time...

[BBQ]

I've been away from my beloved DCS World for awhile (far too long!) and have done a fresh install on a new Windows machine I built. However, when I launch simFFB.exe it hangs for 30 sec or so, and then finally my input devices show up. I'm wondering what I'm forgetting to do -- do we have to set a compatibility mode or anything?

[average_pilot]

What's your windows version?

[BBQ]

Average pilot,

 

It ended up being some kind of problem with a USB card in my box, it's all sorted now. But thanks for checking up on me!

[hideki2]

@Average_pilot might just be my hero if it works with Huey! I just cant wait to try your app out when i come back home! I had already an elaborate mechanical plan in my head to ad dumping to my ffb joy, and here you come with an app! Hope it works!

Edited November 28, 2014 by hideki2

[hideki2]

Ok, the app works, that means I have damping and it feels awesome! But.... :( When app is running I can't use force trim in the Huey. Could anyone help with that? Preety Please

 

Ps. Now I get it, it works awesome you are great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ps.2. This may actually make FSX Hellis flyable!!!

Edited December 21, 2016 by hideki2

[Random]

Interesting side effect of SimFFB... It pretty much eliminates the 'ffb deadzone' on my G940. The only slack is now mechanical!

 

For this reason I'd love to use SimFFB for my fixed wing flying but it doesn't seem to relay stick force and position demands from DCS. For fixed wong its effectively just a sprung joystick.

 

Any plans to add these features?

[Frostregen]

Great tool. Feels really good in the Huey :)

 

Just a note for G940 force trim in the huey:

-in simFFB set the dropdown box to 6 (this means button 6 is force trim)

-remove pilot trim button assignment in dcs

-disable force feedback in dcs

-when switching from menu to game, in simFFB click on Options->Init DirectInput

 

Oh, and put some tape onto this "hand recognition sensor", so you are able to leave the stick, without it centering alone.

Also check out G940 LED stuff for the huey: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2271648&postcount=77

Edited December 25, 2014 by Frostregen

[Flagrum]

Great tool. Feels really good in the Huey :)

 

Just a note for G940 force trim in the huey:

-in simFFB set the dropdown box to 6 (this means button 6 is force trim)

-remove pilot trim button assignment in dcs

-disable force feedback in dcs

-when switching from menu to game, in simFFB click on Options->Init DirectInput

 

Oh, and put some tape onto this "hand recognition sensor", so you are able to leave the stick, without it centering alone.

Also check out G940 LED stuff for the huey: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2271648&postcount=77

 

Two remarks here:

Disabling FFB can result in undesired side effects as you then have to recenter the stick if you trim. Of course, if you don't use the in-game trim function, you would not notice. For the Huey this might be perfectly fine as SimFFB does exactly what the Huey trim would do: just set a new pysical center of the joystic/cyclic.

 

But if you also fly the Mi-8 or especially the Ka-50, this is not viable. You need to use the trim function of the helo because that way you talk to the auto pilot. Therefore you should map the trim function to the same button that you use in SimFFB. And then you have to have FFB enabled - because otherwise DCS, you and SimFFB will disagree on where your stick is or should be... :o)

 

As said earlier, it won't harm to do that as well for the Huey ... = one setup for all Helos.

[Frostregen]

@1: Yes, this is correct. It just sets the new physical center. You are right, this only works with the Huey. (This is why I wrote huey)

 

@2: Interesting. To me it looked like only one Program may have control over FFB. Either simFFB, or DCS. I only recommended to disable FFB in DCS to faster notice if simFFB did take over, or not.

 

If I kept DCS pilot trim mapped, I got "double" trim effect. E.g. The stick remained in forward position, but internal position centered again, resulting in double forward motion. (But then again, I do need to fly Ka-50 and Mi-8 to check it out. Right now only flying Huey)

[Flagrum]

@2: Interesting. To me it looked like only one Program may have control over FFB. Either simFFB, or DCS. I only recommended to disable FFB in DCS to faster notice if simFFB did take over, or not.

If SimFFB is active, only SimFFB has control over the physical FFB effects of the stick. But you would need to enable FFB in DCS for the Mi-8 and Ka-50 because you need to use the in-game trim function (for the autopilot stuff). Then DCS sets the physical center of the cyclic and also for the joystic - but that is ignored, because SimFFB took over the control. But SimFFB does then exactly the same as DCS would do. So you will see no difference. And you need to enable FFB in the DCS options, because otherwise the non-FFB trimming methods (return to center, etc.) would be active - which then would lead to:

 

If I kept DCS pilot trim mapped, I got "double" trim effect. E.g. The stick remained in forward position, but internal position centered again, resulting in double forward motion. (But then again, I do need to fly Ka-50 and Mi-8 to check it out. Right now only flying Huey)

 

Let's say, you have disabled FFB in the DCS Options and use SimFFB. If you mapped the helo trim function to the same button as in SimFFB, you will get something like this:

- push stick forward 50%, in-game cyclic moves fwd 50% as well

- now you trim. SimFFB now keeps the new center of the joystick at 50% fwd

- in-game, "central trimming" is active (as you disabled FFB), now your controls are either locked until you re-center the stick,

or the other trimming variant: DCS moves the virtual center from the current cyclic position to the assumed physical center (of a non-FFB stick). The effect is, if you keep the stick in the SimFFB trimmed position, DCS sees that as if you are gradually adding fwd input again --> "double-trim"

 

Example:

physical stick is set at +50%, virtual stick is at +50%

when trimming: physical stick is still at +50% (but forces removed), current virtual stick position is now assumed as "centered" = 0% deflection

Result: physical stick gives input to DCS +50%, DCS reacts to move the virtual stick from 0% to +50% (although the helo already had a +50% attitude)

 

So, tl;dr: my advice for FFB owners: enable FFB in DCS, map "trim" to the same button in DCS and in SimFFB and everything will work ok.

If you want to make sure that SimFFB has control, you can always tune the FFB of the stick axes in DCS. Set them to force=0% and you will notice it right away. :o)

Edited December 25, 2014 by Flagrum

[Frostregen]

If you want to make sure that SimFFB has control, you can always tune the FFB of the stick axes in DCS. Set them to force=0% and you will notice it right away. :o)

 

Ah, nice idea. I will try it out now :)

(And thank you for elaborating it this detailed)

 

UPDATE:

I tested your suggestion, and it works fine. Thank you for pointing this out, and save me some potential trouble in the future (with Ka-50 and Mi-8 )

 

Summary:

-in simFFB set the dropdown box to 6 (this means button 6 is force trim)

-keep pilot trim button assignment in dcs to the same button (6)

-keep force feedback enabled in dcs, but change strength to 0 (to easiliy notice if simFFB did not take over control)

-when switching from menu to game, in simFFB click on Options->Init DirectInput

 

Greetings,

Frostregen

Edited December 26, 2014 by Frostregen

[average_pilot]

I'm rewriting simFFB in C# so it is easier to add functionality to the program.

 

It will be able to take over the FFB with a key stroke (I hope so, still to be tested) thanks to a modification made by Jazzerman (I didn't know it was just a question of using getasynckeystate, thanks a lot), and will have the ability to configure a button to toggle spring tension on and off.

 

I'll post it in a new thread as this one was mean to ask for the extra functionality (damper and friction).

 

-----

 

One note about how I use simFFB with the Ka-50. I made a glovepie script so that when I press or release the trim button the key 'T' is also pressed and released. Also, it sends a couple of 'Z' an 'X' key actions to "detach the pedals from the trimmer". But when the Flight Director is ON, no input to the autopilot is actually needed, and the script stops synchronizing the trim button and the 'T' and sending 'Z's and 'X's.

Edited December 29, 2014 by average_pilot

[Frostregen]

Nice. Would you share your code again when it is finished? :)

(Or are you using some sort of VCS (HG, GIT, SVN?), where I could get a peek at it while you are coding it?)

 

I would love to use this as a starting point for my own FFB coding. (Currently I'm more familiar with C#, due to work)

[average_pilot]

Sure, I'll share it. My first try to make it "public property" and see it evolve was a fail. I hope C# will make things easier.

No version control at all, though.

[Frostregen]

Thank you :)

Yes, this "see how it evolves"-part fails for most of my open source projects too. But at least I know my code (e.g. http://frostregen.de:8085/sme ) helped out some other guys, so it was/is well worth it.

[tribundf]

Sorry to necro this thread here but I have a question and cannot find the answer.

 

I love the program, but how am I able to reset the stick back to center? Pressing 1 button force trims in where i want it, but how to get it back to center position?

[average_pilot]

Sorry to necro this thread here but I have a question and cannot find the answer.

 

I love the program, but how am I able to reset the stick back to center? Pressing 1 button force trims in where i want it, but how to get it back to center position?

That function does not exists.

[tobyeez]

Hey Jib. I also have a G940. Look on the right side of your stick and you'll notice a small hole there. It's actually a sensor that affects the force feed back. I've placed tape over mine and the trimming action seems to be better.

[tribundf]

That's unfortunate. Any chance of implementing that function?

 

I'm using your program when flying the Huey because the ingame trim acts crazy with my stick. Every time I force trim, the stick shifts a little bit more to one side. It never is exactly at the spot I want it to be.

Does someone maybe have a suggestion on how to make the trim work as it should?

 

Thanks

[average_pilot]

Are you using curves, deadzone or saturation on the pitch and roll axes? You can't set any of those or the stick won't center correctly when trimming.

[tribundf]

I do not. Everything is on default setting

 

Maybe I should delete the config file?

[average_pilot]

I do not. Everything is on default setting

 

Maybe I should delete the config file?

Then I have no clue. I bought the UH-1 yesterday and it works fine for me (I use a msffb2).

[Weta43]

Can you explain a bit more clearly what behaviour you're expecting, and what you're seeing ?

[tribundf]

Let's say I move the stick down and left to the hover position. I then hit the trim button. The stick will move just a notch to the right and hold its position there. So it is impossible to trim correctly as the stick won't stay in the actual position.

 

It sure sounds like it's a curve or saturation issue but I checked several times and it's not it.

 

Like when I use simffb, the stick stays right in that spot. But the dcs force trim always jacks the stick a a little bit to te side or up or down...