hats off gentlemen goodbye <S>

[coldcrew]

I have played this sim since it first hit the shelves met some great and interesting people especially my squad the S77th.

I say goodbye now simply because for me its time to move on.

Before I leave i will tell you all why.

I waited for 9 months before eagle dynamics released its first patch to fix the bugs in this sim.I flew the 15 as I always did and for all the people who have been here from the start remember it was a deathtrap.

I waited equally long for another patch and still the bugs were not properly corrected.

I got flamming cliffs and still the bugs were not corrected.

A new patch was promised towards the end of spring early summer and still its not available.

Eagle dynamics has proven to me that they dont support their product but rather want their hand in your pocket.

The poorest customer support i have ever witnessed in a gamming community.

To everyone I have played with and against I <S> all of you.

To eagle dynamics I say never again.

 

so long suc.. err soulless, we never knew ye

[VanillaChris]

Hiho Mike ;)

 

it's sad to hear that you'll leave the LOMAC community. It couldn't be an easy decision. My advice is: Wait for 1.11, test it and than decide.

 

I wish you all the best for the future.

 

<S!>

 

Eagle

[Stormin]

Too bad you decided to leave. Regardless, bye.

[SUBS17]

ya, and you see what happens when they run out of bone. They start chewing off their own legs.

 

My advice to anyone who asks me about patches is to enjoy what you have.

 

Focus on the good things.

 

Otherwise your allways looking for the next patch. That just seems like self torture to me.

 

I agree, its stupid when people make the asumption that flightsims are easy to develop. Obviously alot of people are working hard to do these patches and make sure they are working properly before releasing them. To start such a thread doesn't help in speeding things up.

[KaBoNG]

Hey Souless, I'm with ya, brother:

 

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=11004

[S77th-GOYA]

I agree, its stupid when people make the asumption that flightsims are easy to develop. Obviously alot of people are working hard to do these patches and make sure they are working properly before releasing them. To start such a thread doesn't help in speeding things up.

 

Nobody said developing sims was easy. How many people do you think are coding on this patch, obviously?

 

And this thread is not about speeding up or slowing down progress on the patch. It's about one man's breaking point having been surpassed. You can't be a simmer without accepting some bugs. They are there in every sim. But you can accept only so much. Each person makes up his own mind how much that is. Personally, I find some of the bugs that remain in this sim after two patches and a paid add-on maddening. It's not so much the number of patches but the time between first release and now. And I bought 1.1 only for bug fixes. I don't give a damn about the frog. The kicker is that 1.1 added as many problems as it fixed. And the F-15's navigation is still utterly screwed up.

 

I'm not saying I don't enjoy this sim. But I'm not in denial about its problems either. Some people seem to think the community owes something to ED. We stopped owing ED as soon as the cash register rang. If they want to continue to hear it ringing, there's more work to be done.

[Kevlon]

Hey Souless, I'm with ya, brother:

 

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=11004

 

lol

[Prophet_169th]

releasing the patch now would be great timing.

[S77th-RYKE]

so long suc.. err soulless, we never knew ye

 

well I knew souless , too bad you didn't ... you missed out

 

I wonder why you insult him , it's kinda strange SINCE YOU DON'T KNOW HIM

[BIOLOG]

Warning

 

so long suc.. err soulless, we never knew ye

 

There is no place for this attitude here... Insults never helped anyone. This is your first warning. Please refrain from comments like that in future.

 

REGARDS

 

BIOLOG

[VanillaChris]

Thanks BIOLOG,

 

I don't want this forum to look like a counterstrike forum.

 

S!

 

Eagle

[504MrWolf]

Yeah BIOLOG you totally PW0N'D teh ub3r l337 n008 !! GO GO GO !! ;)

[SUBS17]

Nobody said developing sims was easy. How many people do you think are coding on this patch, obviously?

 

And this thread is not about speeding up or slowing down progress on the patch. It's about one man's breaking point having been surpassed. You can't be a simmer without accepting some bugs. They are there in every sim. But you can accept only so much. Each person makes up his own mind how much that is. Personally, I find some of the bugs that remain in this sim after two patches and a paid add-on maddening. It's not so much the number of patches but the time between first release and now. And I bought 1.1 only for bug fixes. I don't give a damn about the frog. The kicker is that 1.1 added as many problems as it fixed. And the F-15's navigation is still utterly screwed up.

 

I'm not saying I don't enjoy this sim. But I'm not in denial about its problems either. Some people seem to think the community owes something to ED. We stopped owing ED as soon as the cash register rang. If they want to continue to hear it ringing, there's more work to be done.

 

 

This thread comes across to me as more impateince than anything else, and with a patch and a new addon just months away is just plain wrong to me.

[S77th-GOYA]

More like having one's patience tested too many times.

[VanillaChris]

Yeah BIOLOG you totally PW0N'D teh ub3r l337 n008 !! GO GO GO !! ;)

 

 

:rolleyes: good one wolf

 

 

Eagle

[Che]

We must be playing a different sim. What is the problem with the F15?? I mean it's by far the easiest and most deadly fighter in the game (as it should be) and you're still so upset that you want to stop playing. Ok then Good bye and all and I hope you find the bug free sim you're looking for or any game for that matter but I can tell you, you will fail. That's not denying the problems that exist but more like not exaggerating the ones that do.

[DayGlow]

Could someone please point out the terrible support of this sim? So far I've seen a dev very active on their own forum posting about what they are doing and what they would like to do, as well as continuing to update about where they are in the patch process. I see a very supporting dev.

 

What I think is that there is an unrealistic expectation on patch times. And it is seen across the board for all games. This isn't 5 years ago and as programs get more complex, so does the patching. I look back a few years to Unreal2. It took 3 months for them to create a patch for EAX support in the game. People felt they were lazy and weren't working on it. As it seems, every dev out there is lazy and doesn't work on their patches, or it is taking longer to create a patch.

 

1.1 is the start really for ED. They are no longer under the control of Ubi. I think they are doing a very good job of supporting their customers so far. And by the sounds of this patch coming out, they are really working hard to improve the sim. Time will tell, but even ED is saying that a new economic model is needed for sim development. For ED it appears that means new addon modules evey year and a half or so. 1.2 will be the last for LOMAC, but I imagine their new sim will be along those lines as well. People complain they are pay-for patches, well it seems Fighter Ops will be going the same route. LP has started down it as well (AF is a patched up F4 to finance their next project). The simple fact is that sim development takes a lot of money and time for it's development. ED has always been vary open and honest about where they are at and this has caused no end of flames because of it. I support them for that reason.

[tflash]

I have no complaints whatever. I think these discussion occur on every game I am currently playing. What ED, which is one of the most professional teams in this business, could consider is to refine their product management even futher. The word "patch" is part of the problem: there is no clear definition of what it is.

 

In fact, there is and should be a huge difference between:

 

- bug fixes;

- performance enhancements;

- functional enhancements to the game;

- realism improvements;

- community-driven changes

 

As for now, you get all of this in one "patch". This means the guy who is just waiting for a stupid sofware bug to get fixed suddenly realises that the missile logic has changed or he can't use a weapon any more.

 

The guy that wants MP performance improvements runs a patch and suddely the balance of power has changed and he's loosing all his dogfights.

 

I think we all come to realise this is not the way to go.

 

My feeling is: bug fixes should always be kept separate, these are the real "patches". They do not change a thing to the game. They can be combined with strict performance improvements.

 

Realism improvements and trying to answer demands from the community should come in announced interim releases. These should have a community-approved roadmap. This is the way major open source development projects integrate new functions.

 

It is really my impression that out of concern for realism often to hastely decisions to change behaviour have been made, that impact MP playability.

 

Everyone wants these kind of improvements, but only step by step, not bundled in some "patch".

 

A stable product is not only a bugfree product, but in the first place it is a product with a clear change and enhancement roadmap.

[Weta43]

Dayglow - I agree - if the Beta testers were still farting around with version 1, we'd have reason to be whinging, but they're up to - what is it - 5 ?, which means that they're actively developing it & trying to get it out the door with as few new bugs introduced as possible...

To the guys from the S77th - cause it seems to me most of their posts have a simillar tone ..

No - no-one OWE's E.D. anything. As Goya said we're all paying customers.

But you like flying sims & E.D likes making them.

Yes they're getting paid to do it & yes they're probably living in the hope that one day they'll have a hit & all become gazillionaires. The truth is though that if they were just after money they'd be better off trying to develop a FPS - or anything but a flight sim. They do flight sims 'cause they like doing flight sims. Do we really want to discourage them?

So without being suckups & blindly accepting everything they do, it's probably in the community's best interests to be encouraging rather than antagonistic.

Instead of dramatically anouncing to the world "I love this game but I'll never play it again or buy another E.D. product 'cause they haven't fixed the bugs I think are important", perhaps Souless could have just taken a little breather (gone on a buddhist retreat), taken a break & then come back to this as and when he felt like it.

Instead we have 7 pages in the whole of which the only really positive thing is coldcrew getting his hand slapped, and a situation where Souless can either stand by his declaration, or get down off his high horse & come back.

PS. Souless - I think you should come back. I've never flown online - though really should get broadband on & take the plunge - but it sounds like you've made a real contribution to the online community & you've been as active & worthwhile contributor at these forums - Seems to me you must mostly enjoy the game... What do you gain through your stand? Just lighten up & enjoy it for what it is.

[Alfa]

if the Beta testers were still farting around with version 1, we'd have reason to be whinging, but they're up to - what is it - 5 ?

 

Beta-6 actually - heading towards 7 :)

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[Mizzy]

I have played this sim since it first hit the shelves met some great and interesting people especially my squad the S77th.

I say goodbye now simply because for me its time to move on.

Before I leave i will tell you all why.

I waited for 9 months before eagle dynamics released its first patch to fix the bugs in this sim.I flew the 15 as I always did and for all the people who have been here from the start remember it was a deathtrap.

I waited equally long for another patch and still the bugs were not properly corrected.

I got flamming cliffs and still the bugs were not corrected.

A new patch was promised towards the end of spring early summer and still its not available.

Eagle dynamics has proven to me that they dont support their product but rather want their hand in your pocket.

The poorest customer support i have ever witnessed in a gamming community.

To everyone I have played with and against I <S> all of you.

To eagle dynamics I say never again.

 

Bye :)

 

See ya

 

Mizzy :D

[Hammer3246]

I have no complaints whatever. I think these discussion occur on every game I am currently playing. What ED, which is one of the most professional teams in this business, could consider is to refine their product management even futher. The word "patch" is part of the problem: there is no clear definition of what it is.

 

In fact, there is and should be a huge difference between:

 

- bug fixes;

- performance enhancements;

- functional enhancements to the game;

- realism improvements;

- community-driven changes

 

As for now, you get all of this in one "patch". This means the guy who is just waiting for a stupid sofware bug to get fixed suddenly realises that the missile logic has changed or he can't use a weapon any more.

 

The guy that wants MP performance improvements runs a patch and suddely the balance of power has changed and he's loosing all his dogfights.

 

I think we all come to realise this is not the way to go.

 

My feeling is: bug fixes should always be kept separate, these are the real "patches". They do not change a thing to the game. They can be combined with strict performance improvements.

 

Realism improvements and trying to answer demands from the community should come in announced interim releases. These should have a community-approved roadmap. This is the way major open source development projects integrate new functions.

 

It is really my impression that out of concern for realism often to hastely decisions to change behaviour have been made, that impact MP playability.

 

Everyone wants these kind of improvements, but only step by step, not bundled in some "patch".

 

A stable product is not only a bugfree product, but in the first place it is a product with a clear change and enhancement roadmap.

 

 

Now this makes sense :icon_supe

[enigma6584]

Dayglow - I agree - if the Beta testers were still farting around with version 1, we'd have reason to be whinging, but they're up to - what is it - 5 ?, which means that they're actively developing it & trying to get it out the door with as few new bugs introduced as possible...

To the guys from the S77th - cause it seems to me most of their posts have a simillar tone ..

No - no-one OWE's E.D. anything. As Goya said we're all paying customers.

But you like flying sims & E.D likes making them.

Yes they're getting paid to do it & yes they're probably living in the hope that one day they'll have a hit & all become gazillionaires. The truth is though that if they were just after money they'd be better off trying to develop a FPS - or anything but a flight sim. They do flight sims 'cause they like doing flight sims. Do we really want to discourage them?

So without being suckups & blindly accepting everything they do, it's probably in the community's best interests to be encouraging rather than antagonistic.

Instead of dramatically anouncing to the world "I love this game but I'll never play it again or buy another E.D. product 'cause they haven't fixed the bugs I think are important", perhaps Souless could have just taken a little breather (gone on a buddhist retreat), taken a break & then come back to this as and when he felt like it.

Instead we have 7 pages in the whole of which the only really positive thing is coldcrew getting his hand slapped, and a situation where Souless can either stand by his declaration, or get down off his high horse & come back.

PS. Souless - I think you should come back. I've never flown online - though really should get broadband on & take the plunge - but it sounds like you've made a real contribution to the online community & you've been as active & worthwhile contributor at these forums - Seems to me you must mostly enjoy the game... What do you gain through your stand? Just lighten up & enjoy it for what it is.

 

Could not have been said better! You and Dayglow hit it right smack on the head.

[Guest Cali]

then you must be one of the very few then..

 

I guess so...

[504MrWolf]

I waited for 9 months before eagle dynamics released its first patch to fix the bugs in this sim.I flew the 15 as I always did and for all the people who have been here from the start remember it was a deathtrap.

I waited equally long for another patch and still the bugs were not properly corrected.

I got flamming cliffs and still the bugs were not corrected.

A new patch was promised towards the end of spring early summer and still its not available.

Eagle dynamics has proven to me that they dont support their product but rather want their hand in your pocket.

The poorest customer support i have ever witnessed in a gamming community..

 

Is this thread still open ?

 

Personal views not allways shared by others. I'd like the big sniper rifle in BF2 to actually penertrate walls like IRL but it isnt going to happen. The F-15 isnt a death trap, and if you think that then your sounding like a unskilled bad loser.

 

Speak to the 44th about the Eagle they seem to have edjucated themselves and over come these bugs and show it by regularly kicking ass in theirs !! I dont fly anything in this game but the Frogfoots so im not in the best position to lay claim to right and wrong. But i organise 3 training flights per week to great sucess and enjoyed by all my frog pilots, i havent seen any bugs that have made me want to throw Lockon in the bin since 1.01 !

 

I had trouble with 1.1 timing out on MP untill i added 512mb of cheap ram to my pc, now im running Lockon with HIGH/MED settings..........and the forrest eye candy i allways dreamed about seeing !

 

Sorry you think ED is a bad customer supporter sorry you have "given up" and i will put money on seeing you here when 1.11 is out :) :icon_jook

 

Best Regards

VVS504 MrWolf - Frogfoot Training Officer