My quick impression of the DCS Mustang

[Teapot]

I'm half asleep but couldn't resist getting the reg key this evening and a quick eval before bed.

 

First of all, I'm loving it. I hope the prop era becomes truly well represented in DCS World.

The Mustang is one of my all time favourite planes (the Corsair is prime tho) and WWII is a great era to simulate. I flew War Birds and Aces High for a couple of years and loved it, except for their lack of engine management. I also own Heinz' payware P-51 and Spitfire pack for X-Plane 9 (haven't updated yet) ...

I see great potential for the P-51 in DCS. It doesn't yet 'feel' as solid as my X-Plane version (which is a real biatch on takeoff due to propeller induced torque ... DCS P-51 on the other hand is deceptively easy. But definitely NOT complaining, knowing ED's absolute dedication to fidelity I'm confident we'll all get there!

In the air tho, she is beautiful and responsive. Finally! fidelity in flight and fidelity in engine management. CLOD just aint competition and IL2 is yesterday's hero.

Welcome DCS - WWII World! :D

 

P.S. ... and there's no "Second of all ... " lol. G'night all.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Teapot

[VH-Rock]

I've gotta say, I love the attitude of the devs here... prepared to listen to suggestions, problems and ideas. And the philosophy of "It will be done when it's ready and we wont be pushed into it!"

 

It's great to see this much dedication to getting it right and not just "Hey, lets make some money!"

[Revelation]

I'm half asleep but couldn't resist getting the reg key this evening and a quick eval before bed.

 

 

I see great potential for the P-51 in DCS. It doesn't yet 'feel' as solid as my X-Plane version (which is a real biatch on takeoff due to propeller induced torque ... DCS P-51 on the other hand is deceptively easy. But definitely NOT complaining, knowing ED's absolute dedication to fidelity I'm confident we'll all get there!

 

 

Make sure you are using the realistic flight mode and you have auto-rudder disabled. She's a beast of a challenge.

[VirusAM]

I'm half asleep but couldn't resist getting the reg key this evening and a quick eval before bed.

 

First of all, I'm loving it. I hope the prop era becomes truly well represented in DCS World.

The Mustang is one of my all time favourite planes (the Corsair is prime tho) and WWII is a great era to simulate. I flew War Birds and Aces High for a couple of years and loved it, except for their lack of engine management. I also own Heinz' payware P-51 and Spitfire pack for X-Plane 9 (haven't updated yet) ...

I see great potential for the P-51 in DCS. It doesn't yet 'feel' as solid as my X-Plane version (which is a real biatch on takeoff due to propeller induced torque ... DCS P-51 on the other hand is deceptively easy. But definitely NOT complaining, knowing ED's absolute dedication to fidelity I'm confident we'll all get there!

In the air tho, she is beautiful and responsive. Finally! fidelity in flight and fidelity in engine management. CLOD just aint competition and IL2 is yesterday's hero.

Welcome DCS - WWII World! :D

 

P.S. ... and there's no "Second of all ... " lol. G'night all.

 

This is only an early beta....somewhere here(don't remember)i read that a lot of aerodinamical and flight model features are non implemented or completed, this is only a beginning anyway....i'm having a lot of fun with it

[sobek]

DCS P-51 on the other hand is deceptively easy.

 

The helpers default to on. See how you like her without them. :)

[AtaliaA1]

Breath of Fresh Air.

 

I've gotta say, I love the attitude of the devs here... prepared to listen to suggestions, problems and ideas. And the philosophy of "It will be done when it's ready and we wont be pushed into it!"

 

It's great to see this much dedication to getting it right and not just "Hey, lets make some money!"

 

 

You most certainly said a mouthfull with that statement. In todays economy and corperate climate of legal steeling,(unesaccary/hidden fees over charging for poor service) This is refreshing!!!!!!

 

 

Let's reward ED. By way of telling a freind who games but isn't into the flight Sim ganre. buy an extra copy as a gift to someone. I most positively will and have done all of the above.

[Teapot]

The helpers default to on. See how you like her without them. :)

 

Cool bananas! Thanks Sobek. I should've guessed that it was something I was missing in the setup. New toy syndrome and all that.

Unfortunately I have to curb my enthusiasm until I get home from the movies with my wife!

 

ED ... you definitely rock!:thumbup:

[cichlidfan]

The helpers default to on. See how you like her without them. :)

 

That should take care of the OP being 'half-asleep'!;)

[lanmancz]

The helpers default to on. See how you like her without them. :)

 

Yeah, flying with helpers off is really much harder than in A10C with the modern stability augmentation - trimm really becomes your best friend. But it's a lot of fun too ! It really surprised me that you can really feel the flight as never before, it somehow feels more real to me. I did all the tutorial missions and I started the challenge campaign. I'm now in mission 10 or 11 and I can say that it's really a lot of fun to fly this bird.

Edited May 2, 2012 by lanmancz

[Tailspin45]

But closer to real with TO Assist at 100%. That said, I've only have a few minutes in this '51 so far and suspect my axis settings need more curve. The difference, I guess is the real one feels like a .45--a solid hunk of metal not to be taken lightly, but honest--so far this sim feels twitchy and ill-behaved on takeoff and landing, but with TO Assist it feels about right. I love a challenge as much as the next guy, but this bird is more than a handful.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Tailspin45

[sobek]

The difference, I guess is the real one feels like a .45--a solid hunk of metal not to be taken lightly, but honest--so far this one feels twitchy and ill-behaved. I love a challenge as much as the next guy, but this bird is more than a handful.

 

RL operators were involved extensively in the creation and tuning of the flight model, so "it doesn't feel right" is not necessarily a critcism that the devs will get anything out of. :)

 

That said, while it is a huge chunk of metal, there's also 1400 horses throwing it around at TO. If you search for some RL takeoffs and watch the rudder behaviour closely, you will see that, especially when the tail comes up, a fair amount of "dance" is necessary to keep her on a straight track.

[Tailspin45]

I read that RL folks were involved, and I'm no expert on '51 with only three flights (as a passenger) in one. But I do have a lot of time in an SNJ/AT-6 and C-45H, and have given a lot of dual in both. So I think I have some basis for my opinion that it doesn't feel quite right--twitchy and ill-behaved as I wrote--with the TO Assist off. My impression is that the gyro effect of the prop is overdone without the assist, if that helps.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love what they've created. I've enjoyed hours and hours of fun in the A-10 and look forward to the same in the P-51.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Tailspin45

[PeterP]

One sentence to get more insight:

By the way, before beta was released I have many hours of constant consultation with our boss, Nick Grey, who has hundreds hours in P-51 and he spent a lot of hours flying DCS P-51 to check the model accuracy.

 

And read also the related postings http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1449709#post1449709

 

But I have to admit that I was also astonished about the the fact that I can easily achieve a "hands free flying" when trimmed properly - even when I change throttle/rpm.

And every trustworthy RL source says that the Mustang will do anything but flying straight when not maintained carefully every second...

 

Maybe this will change for me a little when FFB is introduced , as right now I'm flying without a centring force - and I can place my stick anywhere and it will hold position....

But this will probably only affect the FFB people... hmm.

 

But maybe this will make a Mustang out of this tame horse:

P-51D Status - 29 April 2012: Kindly read before reporting Bugs/Problems

4. Other

 

Buffeting and shaking will be added in the near future.

And I hope that this is meant to be added to the FM and not only describing a visual effect.
Edited May 26, 2012 by PeterP

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

It doesn't yet 'feel' as solid as my X-Plane version (which is a real biatch on takeoff due to propeller induced torque ...

 

Sorry, but I don't think you picked the right sim for comparison... Xplane, up to version 10 recently released and already going through the usual succession of betas...., is well known for it's unrealistic torque instead of slipstream effects... One of the most hilarant "features" of x-plane is the huge roll to the right (on a clockwise rotating prop as seen from the cockpit) when you retard the throttle... We can somehow accept the torque effects when you "give power", but not those when you take it...

 

I don't have DCS World or p-51, but have been closely following this forum and it appears to me, also from lot's of youtubes, that the aircraft is very well modelled in this simulator platform.

[WildBillKelsoe]

I've gotta say, I love the attitude of the devs here... prepared to listen to suggestions, problems and ideas. And the philosophy of "It will be done when it's ready and we wont be pushed into it!"

 

It's great to see this much dedication to getting it right and not just "Hey, lets make some money!"

 

^ I couldn't agree more. ED schtook every sucker in the market for easy money. If I were microsoft, I'd be very envious. I remain a loyal customer to ED, which never fails to dazzle us every year.

 

For years of hi-def, sophisticated sims to come:

 

 

sorry for the enormous pic.

[Phantom88]

But closer to real with TO Assist at 100%. That said, I've only have a few minutes in this '51 so far and suspect my axis settings need more curve. The difference, I guess is the real one feels like a .45--a solid hunk of metal not to be taken lightly, but honest--so far this sim feels twitchy and ill-behaved on takeoff and landing, but with TO Assist it feels about right. I love a challenge as much as the next guy, but this bird is more than a handful.

 

If you are using Rudder pedals you do really need to tweak your setting in the controls axis menu,this made a H-U-G-E Difference for me and the way The P-51 Behaves on take-off.

[159th_Viper]

If you are using Rudder pedals you do really need to tweak your setting in the controls axis menu,this made a H-U-G-E Difference for me and the way The P-51 Behaves on take-off.

 

That's correct - differences in controller setups account for a lot.

[Tailspin45]

Oh, I have tweaked my rudder axis, I meant further tweak. Which I've now done, and I still believe that with TO Assist off the bird has way too much gyroscopic effect. The torque and P-factor seems to be about right, even if the trottle is smartly advanced to a full 61 inches, it's controllable. But when the tail comes off the ground below abut 100 mph, however gently, all hell breaks loose and I, at least, don't think it should behave like that.

[effte]

Try same with tailwheel unlocked. It's the tail wheel providing directional control which makes the difference, far as I can tell, so hell breaking loose on raising the tail isn't due to precession kicking in but rather to the wheel coming off the ground.

 

I'm still leaning towards the fin/rudder somehow being under-represented aerodynamically, possibly in combination with propwash modelling, or tyre side loads being overmodelled. As long as you keep it pointed roughly in the right direction, it seems more or less OK to me, along with the effort it takes, but as you start getting it sideways I just do not find the behaviour believable.

 

Cheers,

Fred

[Tailspin45]

It's the tail wheel providing directional control which makes the difference

 

Definitely, but watch any video of RL '51 taking off and you'll see the tailwheel come off the ground long, long before the mains.

 

In SNJ the technique is to let the tailwheel come off, which happens around 40-50mph, and hold a tail low attitude until the aircraft becomes airborne.

 

In any event, you make a good point. The vertical stabilizer modeling may be the issue. The POH says, "If you horse the tail off the ground too quickly with the elevators, better be ready to use right rudder promptly." My experience with TO Assist off is no amount of right rudder will control the nose.

[effte]

Tailspin,

my comment was directed entirely at the simulator, in which the tail wheel seems to be something you Cannot Do Without - and that's the crux of the matter.

 

In real life, you and me both know it isn't so. We very much agree. There's some work to be done. :)

[159th_Viper]

But when the tail comes off the ground below abut 100 mph, however gently, all hell breaks loose and I, at least, don't think it should behave like that.

 

Would you mind elaborating, preferably with a track to illustrate the 'problem' behaviour you are experiencing? Personally I have zero issues and as a consequence cannot understand the perceived issue, hence the need for further info.

[Shaderhacker]

I wish I could demonstrate it but I agree with the previous posters. It's near impossible to keep the plane straight down the runway once the tailwheel comes off the ground. Furthermore, the speed at which the tailwheel comes off the ground is way faster than 40-50mph. Almost like 100mph and at that point, you might as well just lift the plane off the ground instead of fighting that zigg-zagg behavior.

[Ali Fish]

this is the character of the plane. everyone who set out to learn the p51 went through this initially. shocked by the torque effects. 4 degrees of rudder trim is alot imo but essential to combat the torque. i also think taking off with full power causes the propwash to be way to powerfull to the extent the tail will just not come up smoothly, instead the bird goes for takeoff and if in that situation yes all hell breaks loose.

 

ive no idea about real flight physics but things seem good to me. very happy with the character of the plane. however wrong it maybe !

 

and no amount of virtual flight expereince prepared anyone for what to expect from ed regarding propellor driven aircraft and their real character attributes..... or did i miss a sim platform somewhere that got close....

[Druid_]

Pre-setting the rudder trim is not so much to combat the rudder forces on take-off but to enable the aircraft to be in trim for the initial climb. IRL I never did this on piston aircraft as the loads on the rudder was feedback that I wanted. After. A while with experience you smoothly set the power and introduced rudder to a known position. Small movements were then applied to maintain the centreline.

 

The main problem I have is with the slipstream effect over the rudder (ineffective, try a stall turn at 60 kts) and the natural longitudal stability of the P51 at present. After mishandling lifting the tail and creating a longitudinal PIO (Pilot Induced Occilation) the effects increase in magnitude to some degree even if you reduce power & neutralise the controls.