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Next DCS (Russian) Fixed Wing Aircraft Wish List


Milene
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Next DCS (Russian) Fixed Wing Aircraft Wish List  

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  1. 1. Next DCS (Russian) Fixed Wing Aircraft Wish List

    • MiG-23MLA 'Flogger-G'
      260
    • Sukhoi Su-27SM3 'Flanker'
      589
    • Mikoyan MiG-29M 'Fulcrum-E'
      323
    • Mikoyan MiG-25PDSL 'Foxbat-E'
      160
    • Sukhoi SU-25KM 'Scorpion'
      75
    • Sukhoi Su-22M5 'Fitter'
      78
    • Sukhoi Su-35BM 'Flanker-E'
      290
    • Sukhoi Su-24M2 'Fencer-D'
      161
    • Sukhoi PAK FA
      90
    • Mikoyan MiG-35 'Fulcrum-F'
      174


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Actually it would be quite difficult, because you're looking for things that didn't have an opportunity to happen in RL since WWII.

 

You're also being disengenuous by requiring that people die in their planes, when it has been made quite clear that plane on fire != death.

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Sorry if it came across that I was disingenuous. I didn't mean to.

 

I don't require that people die; they could fight with plane damaged, HOWEVER this is in direct collision with priorities thought to pilots during training in every single Air force in the world. I quoted real, declassified F 16 flight manual where it is clearly stated that first priority is to FLY THE PLANE. Hence digression to Medals and bravery.

 

In the circumstances involving actual battle damage, it is highly unlikely (for majority of pilots) that they will continue engaging the enemy. As your RL pilot contact stated, some will do, but I think that you are very well aware that we are talking HUGE minority here.

 

Am I guestimating? Sure I am - but then your Pilot is also ;). You've just mentioned that there are no valid examples since WWII;)

 

We just need to think about it and it is obvious that online pilots in DCS are not behaving according to the RL and they are actually abusing the system.

 

Cheers


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Whether the engine or system failure came from a munition, a collision, or a birdstrike, in the aftermath priority #5 still applies:

 

"Never let anything shot from the ground or air hit your airplane."

 

If during the effort to maintain control and vacate the premises an opponent blunders his way into your still functioning HUD and FCS, the onus still remains to fire. Otherwise, you will be beset with further system failures by way of having not observed priority #5.

 

And as to what a pilot will do under the circumstances of damage, I'd remind (or introduce, depending on education) those questioning the premise of staying in the aircraft, whether to fight or to disengage, of the events of May 10th 1972, in which two different sets of aircrews (Lodge/Locher and Cunningham/Driscoll) dealt with catastrophic damage to their Phantom IIs, resulting in different outcomes. Both had members stay in the aircraft as long as possible (Showtime 100 to get over the Gulf, whereas Robert Lodge knowingly chose to die with his aircraft).

 

In the case of Lodge, he'd made it abundantly clear to his squadron mates that he would not eject over North Vietnam, and would instead fight to the point of dying with his aircraft.

 

Now, would one of you like to tell me that had Oyster 1 remained capable of maneuvering with and engaging the enemy, Lodge *wouldn't* have pulled the trigger? Because I'd find that a fairly amusing argument, that a man who knowingly chose to die- having directed his GIB that he'd "better get out, then", would have refused an opportunity to take a couple more of his opponents with him.

 

But hey, everybody operates the same- engine fire = "HANDLES!"

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..., that a man who knowingly chose to die...

 

Player (pilot) in DCS knows that he will not die - that is why he automatically choose to fire the missiles in case of battle damage ignoring piloting the plane ;)

 

I don't dispute honor and bravery of airmen around the world (I have local stories as well, but that is huge OT )

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I'm not going to bother offering my opinion, but I will say this:

 

The directive to "maintain aircraft control" is a universal concept that applies to every single flying machine ever devised. It simply means that you must pay attention to flying the airplane, and not become distracted reading a checklist while troubleshooting an emergency. That's it.

 

Nobody in a single-seat fighter whips out a checklist for anything during an emergency, let alone an emergency during combat. They take prompt action to accomplish the "bold face" items - from memory - and that's it (unless the emergency occurs in peace time and the wingman or SOF has time to pull out the checklist and read it to the pilot).

 

Don't misinterpret that text to mean that a pilot cannot/will not employ his aircraft as a weapon after suffering damage. That's not what it says at all.

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"They've got us surrounded again - those poor bastards!" - Lt. Col. Creighton Abrams

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And the fairly rare victim of this is being unrealistic by putting himself in the WEZ of a fighter whose weapons might still be operating. Realistically you would be avoiding that situation but hey ... blame it all on the ability to shoot missiles :)

 

Player (pilot) in DCS knows that he will not die - that is why he automatically choose to fire the missiles in case of battle damage ignoring piloting the plane ;)

 

I don't dispute honor and bravery of airmen around the world (I have local stories as well, but that is huge OT )

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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And the fairly rare victim of this is being unrealistic by putting himself in the WEZ of a fighter whose weapons might still be operating. Realistically you would be avoiding that situation but hey ... blame it all on the ability to shoot missiles :)

 

Transition from BVR to WVR? ;)

 

Not that much time to avoid WEZ of your enemy, especially if both of you just fired your BVR arsenal and your carefully guided SARH missile (thanks God! :lol:) hit; suddenly you realize that you're in WEZ of Uber Brave Armchair Hero who is ready to "die" in gruesome death (basically fried alive) only to make it even with you in virtual world :lol:

 

Guess what? If he fires AMRAAM (from his 8x load) he will hit you ...

 

Happens frequently ...

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Would you like some cheese with that whine? :)

 

Why are you in front of his HUD? Why are you closing with him? It's your problem and no one else's.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Why are you in front of his HUD? Why are you closing with him?

 

Classic Ignoratio Elenchi or fallacy of irrelevant conclusion my friend :)

 

Anyway, there would be no combat in DCS (or any multiplayer) if all red birds just run away. I can understand that some of the F15 guys would like that, though ...:megalol:

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More like classic ACM fail on your part :)

 

Classic Ignoratio Elenchi or fallacy of irrelevant conclusion my friend :)

 

Anyway, there would be no combat in DCS (or any multiplayer) if all red birds just run away. I can understand that some of the F15 guys would like that, though ...:megalol:

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Classic Ignoratio Elenchi or fallacy of irrelevant conclusion my friend :)

 

Actually, it's not. If the potential remains for the opponent to remain an active combatant, you cannot allow yourself to be placed within his WEZ.

 

Where it concerns the AIM-120, the only, and I mean *only* issue that may be in play is one of PRF mode at time of launch with a failed radar. Maddog begets Medium PRF, which is highly susceptible to being spoofed at extended range. If ED isn't compensating for this appropriately, that's a concern; however, I don't know enough of how they're modeling missile-side radar to know if this is or not the case.

 

However, the fact remains that if you stuck yourself in a WEZ against what remains an opponent that has not been neutralized, you deserve to be shot at.

 

Until it's a smoking lawn dart (that is, nose *down*), an expanding fireball and debris field, a smoking hole in the ground, or you see a chute/streamer, the opposing aircraft is to be considered a threat and handled accordingly.

 

Friends don't let friends fly like a dummy. :D

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...If the potential remains for the opponent to remain an active combatant, you cannot allow yourself to be placed within his WEZ....

 

Could you please explain how to fight enemy, starting in BVR, not entering his WEZ when transiting to WVR?

 

Oh, btw, your only available BVR weapon is SARH missile so no braking away untill missile impact ...

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Could you please explain how to fight enemy, starting in BVR, not entering his WEZ when transiting to WVR?

 

Enter undetected, or from multiple angles. If your shot has apparently killed the opponent, crank, using the azimuth flexibility of your radar to sanitize the airspace.

 

Oh, btw, your only available BVR weapon is SARH missile so no braking away untill missile impact ...

 

And? Given that everybody stands around with the barrage ECM announcing their presence, getting inside of 15 miles is the result. Turn off your ECM, and mount up with multiple wingmen, and fly like a freaking Russian, already.

 

This is not the joust. This is not a duel at high noon at twenty paces. You do not simply run a specific course down a straight line intercept. Hell, at last look the Soviet birds in FC/DCS had better azimuth flexibility, yet, we're having a conversation like only the 1:1 munition exchange is acceptable.

 

Sukhoi could have saved themselves a lot of weight and drag penalty removing a couple of those pylon mounts, since everybody is going to sit around acting like they don't exist.

 

The funny part is that you've got a 50/50 chance depending on the direction that the *active* shooter decides to turn as to whether he's going to move his WEZ out of the way for you. Put the bug on the gimbal limit, and watch the dynamics change.

 

Or not.

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Could you please explain why, after hitting your target as you described above, you are not pulling straight into a notch from him instead of pointing the nose at him? Since we're talking about a BVR/WVR transit, you're also likely to have some success following up with a 27(E)T just so that he has something to think about while you get yourself into a position that gives you more options than intercepting his missile with your aircraft.

 

Could you please explain how to fight enemy, starting in BVR, not entering his WEZ when transiting to WVR?

 

Oh, btw, your only available BVR weapon is SARH missile so no braking away untill missile impact ...

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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I already employ most of your suggestions lunaticfringe, and many you don't mention (wouldn't hit anything otherwise ;)) but again:

 

You can't hide the fact that people are unrealistically exploiting the possibility to fire multiple AMRAAM's in situations when they counterparts in RL would simply stop fighting, running for cover and safety of nearest friendly airport.

 

Yes, I've learned how to counteract possible "heroism", but I'm more than convinced that I'm simply doing much more than needed in RL ...

 

Random possibility to fire missiles after damage taken is all it takes - as stated in previous posts.

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You can't hide the fact that people are unrealistically exploiting the possibility to fire multiple AMRAAM's in situations when they counterparts in RL would simply stop fighting, running for cover and safety of nearest friendly airport.

 

I like how you make up statements that you simply cannot back up. There is no 'heroism' in this, he's going to keep fighting you because he cannot separate. If his plane is still flying, he will still fight you. The ability of someone in an out-of-control spin or with nose pointed down to hit you after taking a hit is rather poor, unless you're sitting right where they can aim that missile at you. It's going to be either bad luck, your own fault, or both.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Could you please explain why, after hitting your target as you described above, you are not pulling straight into a notch from him instead of pointing the nose at him? Since we're talking about a BVR/WVR transit, you're also likely to have some success following up with a 27(E)T just so that he has something to think about while you get yourself into a position that gives you more options than intercepting his missile with your aircraft.

 

As stated above, I've learned how to do it GGTharos - the unrealistic behavior of the hit pilot afterwards is the problem. In busy battle (say 4x4) there is big chance that someone will get hit by stray AMRAAM launched by our hypothetical "Hero".

 

Simple, really

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...There is no 'heroism' in this, he's going to keep fighting you because he cannot separate. ...

 

OK, we are guessing here (nothing wrong with educated guessing in my mind), but what would you do in above mentioned battle (4x4) after taking serious damage?

 

I bet you would eject in RL ASAP!

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Well, if this is the case, then why isn't the AI being upgraded to NOT eject as soon as they have engines out? :P

 

It's very hard to avoid someones WEZ when they have helmet mode ready and have entered a flat-spin. This happens quite frequently online. (All aircraft is affected, not just one side).

 

Killing you fire control system in 3/4 times (like someone suggested) will still force the attacker to take some kind of action while at the same time keeping things sensible. AND you get to have your medal of honor heroism 1/4 of the times ;)

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What's serious damage? Can I still bring the nose around? If I can, I'll be sticking a missile in someone.

 

OK, we are guessing here (nothing wrong with educated guessing in my mind), but what would you do in above mentioned battle (4x4) after taking serious damage?

 

I bet you would eject in RL ASAP!

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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OK, we are guessing here (nothing wrong with educated guessing in my mind), but what would you do in above mentioned battle (4x4) after taking serious damage?

 

I bet you would eject in RL ASAP!

 

That's your friends you have a chance to help.

 

Some would eject. Some would try to help their friends. Armed forces try to filter for the people that will fight.

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Well, if this is the case, then why isn't the AI being upgraded to NOT eject as soon as they have engines out? :P

 

AI is AI... It's not easy to program them.

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Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog

DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules |

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