Remove Start of Mission Zoom Effect + Track IR

[PeterP]

oh - sorry for not following the "protocol" - But I think I mentioned it already two years ago - will have a look where it is and bump it :D

 

edit: Found my old post - but it was buried in one of these "I have some wishes and nice Ideas" mass-Threads that no one is able to track what exactly the OP wants...:P- so I thought it is better to open a new one - like Viper said.

 

Sorry if my last post sounded a little sniffy - but I think a Scotsman should be able to handle it :)

 

>>>Cockpit View Angle settings in the GUI

Edited August 14, 2012 by PeterP

[Echo38]

Docfu, as noted a few posts ago, it is no better for us non-TrackIR users than for TrackIR users--it doesn't do anything for us that it doesn't do for you (and it's just as irritating for us as it is for you, too). TrackIR is completely irrelevant. This is, evidently, an issue of widescreen versus standard display, not an issue of TrackIR versus hat/keyboard/mouse.

 

Viper, you still haven't explained how the gradual zooming accommodates widescreen monitors--why can't the effect be instant? How does it help to have the effect take a few seconds? I'm really confused about this. I just can't see any reason why the re-fit wouldn't be instantaneous.

[Nate--IRL--]

Viper, you still haven't explained how the gradual zooming accommodates widescreen monitors--why can't the effect be instant? How does it help to have the effect take a few seconds? I'm really confused about this. I just can't see any reason why the re-fit wouldn't be instantaneous.

 

It is to accommodate aspect ratios other than 4:3 - it will zoom in when in portrait mode, for example. Useful for cockpit builders I guess.

 

Personally I think it should be optional. As for why it does this smoothly, who knows, if it just jumped from one FOV to another it would look like a bug, instead of something that is planned.

 

It can be overridden instantly with 2 key-presses, no need to wait for it to finish zooming.

 

Nate

[Echo38]

As for why it does this smoothly, who knows, if it just jumped from one FOV to another it would look like a bug, instead of something that is planned.

 

That's the thing, though--I can't see any reason why it shouldn't simply start in the second FoV, rather than starting from one and then going to another. Surely the process should be done while the mission is loading, and not visually in real-time afterward?

 

Rather than removing the compensation for alternate aspect ratios, my proposal would be amending it so that it is done while the sim is loading up the mission, so that there is no visual transition, but rather is already at the new zoom level when the mission loads and you appear in the virtual cockpit.

[Puddlemonkey]

I too would like to see it become an option or removed. It is particularly annoying in multiplayer. On a bad day, I spend more time watching it zoom out than I do in the air :-)

[Nate--IRL--]

That's the thing, though--I can't see any reason why it shouldn't simply start in the second FoV, rather than starting from one and then going to another. Surely the process should be done while the mission is loading, and not visually in real-time afterward?

 

Rather than removing the compensation for alternate aspect ratios, my proposal would be amending it so that it is done while the sim is loading up the mission, so that there is no visual transition, but rather is already at the new zoom level when the mission loads and you appear in the virtual cockpit.

 

I don't think it should exist at all to be honest. It has been discussed at length by the testers and ED. There is no indication of it changing to be honest.

 

Nate

[159th_Viper]

Would someone please be so kind as to post before and after screenshots as per my previous post detailing why the procedure leads to an unacceptable result, keeping in mind a resolution greater than 1920x1200 (as it has been shown to be favourable on said resolution and I am assuming will stay so on lesser too. If not why not, with attendang screenshots please) with a single-monitor setup which I assume is the more generally prevalant amongst the majority of users.

[PeterP]

You can easily find out yourself what can bee seen before after.

It depends on Aspect ratio - resolution is only secondary.

 

Things to know: DCS uses a engine that calculates the FOV depending on your screen-width.

 

Test-bet:

 

Use a windowed res of all kind of "common" aspect ratios and what you see than will show you what other have on the screen.

 

 

Example:

you use 1920x1200 = 16:10

 

Now scale your image down to 1680x1050 = 16:10

 

and you will see that the HUD becomes very fuzzy to read and you may want to zoom in a little on a 1680x1050 display.

 

And now scale this screen-shot again down to 1280x768 - and you will see that what works nice on 1920x1200 is pretty useless on 1280x768.

 

And here is the opposite:

 

use a windowed 16:9 res e.g. 1920x1080

 

and scale it up to 2560x1440.

 

And than you should clearly be able to imagine that you may want to zoom out at 2560x1440 a little more- because you have enough pixels available to read everything easily at a higher FOV as on a 1920x1080 display.

 

 

Conclusion:

There is simply no "universal" setting that fits all.

 

 

Can come in handy for your tests:

Fix: adding a custom resolution to in-game options.

 

 

The only solution to please everyone would be something like this:

Cockpit View Angle settings in the GUI

Edited August 15, 2012 by PeterP

[159th_Viper]

I don't Fiddle.

 

Fiddling leads to Diddling and before you know it your install's down the Crapper. Screenshots taken before and after of a default install/resolution/aspect ratio, if you please.

 

No Fiddlin'!

 

:)

[macedk]

I've added to that zoom thingy.

 

A sound piece going TA-DAAA- BOING!!

 

Sets the tone for the mission. Have different sounds for all kinds of missions.

[159th_Viper]

:megalol:

 

Had the Jaws theme in mind myself.......or perhaps that would be better suited towards the A-10's MLWS detecting a T-Toad launch :P

 

Alas I digress......screenshots please.

[PeterP]

I don't Fiddle.

 

Fiddling leads to Diddling and before you know it your install's down the Crapper. Screenshots taken before and after of a default install/resolution/aspect ratio, if you please.

 

No Fiddlin'!

 

:)

 

Using a smaller windowed Res to test what other see at monitors with a smaller res./different aspect than you are using now is Not what I would call "Fiddlin' around".

:)

Edited August 15, 2012 by PeterP

[macedk]

:megalol:

 

Had the Jaws theme in mind myself.......or perhaps that would be better suited towards the A-10's MLWS detecting a T-Toad launch :P

 

Alas I digress......screenshots please.

 

Screen-shots are located in the Narnia folder and you know were that folder is.

 

Edit:

at 1min 49 secs. Found one in the funny folder.
Edited August 15, 2012 by macedk

[Puddlemonkey]

Ok, so lots of debate about aspect ratios but surely the question is whether you need 3 seconds of gradual zooming for it to adjust the field of view to the aspect ratio?

 

Surely it should be instant or near instant - or even just a second?

[BIGNEWY]

its 3 seconds

 

just wait

 

it wont hurt lol :)

 

this announcement has been brought to you from the ministry of common sense

[PeterP]

Ok, so lots of debate about aspect ratios but surely the question is whether you need 3 seconds of gradual zooming for it to adjust the field of view to the aspect ratio?

 

Surely it should be instant or near instant - or even just a second?

:) to clear something up and prevent that we start to mix apples with oranges:

 

The aspect ratio is there from the beginning ( how it is set in the GUI > to be more exact : How it is set in you used MultiMonitorSetup.lua).

The only thing what happens is that the FOV changes during start.

 

(well- you sure can speed the "zoom-speed" significant up- but this needs fiddling with the view.lua...but it is not very advisable to do it as long you want a minimum of control to change your FOV while in cockpit.)

 

 

edit: Thanks to the ministry of common sense for pointing this out - seems that some here have a time-perception of a fly and 3seconds are like being stuck for a half day :)

Edited August 15, 2012 by PeterP

[Wolf Rider]

If the sim calculates the FoV to the aspect which is set in Options, :huh: there shouldn't be any necessity to have the view zoom down on start up, where that could be done when the sim is loading.

 

It does give a sensation of "climbing into the cockpit" though. :music_whistling:

 

 

I just wait until its finished doing its thing, then adjust to my liking and comfort :doh:by that time, I'm settled in

[PeterP]

Would someone please be so kind as to post before and after screenshots as per my previous post detailing why the procedure leads to an unacceptable result, keeping in mind a resolution greater than 1920x1200 (as it has been shown to be favourable on said resolution and I am assuming will stay so on lesser too. If not why not, with attendang screenshots please) with a single-monitor setup which I assume is the more generally prevalant amongst the majority of users.

 

 

 

 

Zoom in to out DCS World 1.2.0 A-10C.txt :

Ten tests of zoom "in" to "out" at mission start with time duration

Tests where made with DCS:World with the default view angle limits and snapviewsettings of the A-10C.

 

 

1a before 1024x768

1b after 1024x768

1 seconds - 4:3

 

2a before 1280x1024

2b after 1280x1024

0 seconds - 5:4

 

3a before 1360x768

3b after 1360x768

4 seconds - 16:9

 

4a before 1400x1050

4b after 1400x1050

1 second - 4:3

 

5a before 1680x1050

5b after 1680x1050

5 seconds - 16:10

 

6a before 1920x1080

6b after 1920x1080

4 seconds - 16:9

 

7a before 1920x1200

7b after 1920x1200

5 seconds 16:10

 

8a before 2560 x 1440

8b after 2560 x 1440

4 seconds - 16:9

 

9a before 3840 x 1024

9b after 3840 x 1024

7 seconds - 15:4 (3x 5:4)

 

10a before 5760 x 1080

10b after 5760 x 1080

10 seconds - 16:3 (3x 16:9)

 

 

15-08-2012

 

-PeterP

Download: http://www.mediafire.com/?yxqf62a1qji68kk (9.7 MB)

Edited August 15, 2012 by PeterP

[159th_Viper]

Ta Peter :)

 

OK - Humour me for a second: Apart from the obvious problem that it causes with 3840 x 1024 and 5760 x 1080 (which I am sure falls into the very lower minority of users bracket), what exactly is the problem for the majority of users, apart from a couple of seconds wait? How does one justify allocation of valuable Dev time to a feature that on the face of it does not need change/has little benefit?

 

Don't get me wrong: I'm neither for or against. I am however at a loss as to how to formulate a constructive and more importantly, a persuasive argument to put to the devs in requesting a feature-change.

[docfu]

You know, when I started this thread I was in a slightly good mood until I opened DCS and I was like "Ugh, that damn zoom effect at the beginning of missions...again."

 

To be honest, I totally blew off playing Final Fantasy 7 for the same reason. There was just NO GOOD REASON to have a stupid zoom-in-on-the-map effect EVERY time you went into a battle, which was all of like every 30 seconds in the game.

 

Even more annoying in DCS, the game starts at the correct zoom level, then zooms OUT...then IN...then with the trackIR, actually finishes zoomed OUT more than I need it to be by default...not just once...but every time so I start each mission by fixing the trackIR settings and then the zoom settings.

 

 

The simple fact is that zooming is a nauseous effect. Not just in this game, but in general. It's always annoying when someone takes control of the camera from you and starts playing with the zoom. Like right when you go to view something you want to see, except that the person controlling the camera zooms in too far and then you miss seeing the entire picture in favor of what THAT person thought was interesting...

 

Really, if you need an effect at the start of missions, either do fade in from black, or fade in from white. Those two NEVER annoy me. They don't annoy me in TV commercials, they don't annoy me in movies, they don't annoy me in video games.

 

Playing with the zoom, and I'm sorry, but saying you need to "play with the zoom to get the correct aspect ratio on various displays" is just BS. I'm sorry, but it's BS. No? Don't like that answer? Well, I'm sorry, but any and I mean ANY excuse or reason you come with...is...just BS. Get over yourself.

 

Put down your keyboard. Stand up. Go to the nearest mirror, look into it and say "I have a problem because I believe the display needs to be zoomed in and out to make missions more interesting."

 

There is absolutely NO reason that the zoom has to be zoomed out then in at the beginnning of every mission. None. Zilch. Zero. None-what-so-ever.

 

No really. Don't hit reply. Don't write a response. Nobody wants to hear it. Nobody is going to come to your defense and say "Oh but he's right! Zoom at the beginning of the mission just makes me happy and I wanna go out and hug flowers and be everyone's friend!"

 

Take your hands off my zoom control. Take them off, and put your hands back in your pockets. Don't give me any excuses. I don't want to hear them. Take your hands off my zoom control and keep them off. That's for me to use. Not you...me.

 

 

Period. The End. Close this thread and give ED a kick in the ass for annoying it's customers.

[159th_Viper]

^^^^^^

 

Neither constructive nor persuasive.

 

Anybody else?

[docfu]

^^^^^^

 

Neither constructive nor persuasive.

 

Anybody else?

 

I disagree with your assessment completely.

 

If something is annoying to users, that is enough of a reason to change it alone. The game exists to be our form of entertainment. Not for us to be annoyed with.

 

ED exists here to serve us, and because it serves us mostly-well, we give it our hard earned money. We want to make ED more accessible to other people as well. That is why we offer our criticisms of their products with the hope they can understand our point of view and change their products to better serve us.

 

Game companies don't complain when someone said "Hey, all of that flashing to white can cause people with epilepsy to have seizures." They put a warning notice at the beginning of the game or remove the effect all together so it doesn't become a problem.

 

Removing the code that causes that annoying zoom effect is a 5 minute job. I'm not asking for a menu option to turn it off. I'm asking for it to be gone. It may only be 3 seconds at the beginning of a mission, but it's 3 seconds I REGRET after a loading screen, rather than 3 seconds I say "okay let's get busy."

 

So, if you want a constructive and persuasive argument. Try this: I DON'T LIKE IT. PERIOD.

 

Because my opinion as a customer should be good enough for ED to listen to. They don't need statistical reports, logical arguments or scientific studies to know that something ANNOYS their customers. They should listen to and correct bad design decisions BEFORE people start getting angry.

 

That is common sense.

[PeterP]

@docfu

good! point taken - but please don't let us start to question in what mood a post was made (been there - done that...).

Extract the info - and use it or not - we are basically talking about numbers in this thread. - numbers don't need a mood to be right.

 

Ta Peter

 

OK - Humour me for a second: Apart from the obvious problem that it causes with 3840 x 1024 and 5760 x 1080 (which I am sure falls into the very lower minority of users bracket), what exactly is the problem for the majority of users, apart from a couple of seconds wait? How does one justify allocation of valuable Dev time to a feature that on the face of it does not need change/has little benefit?

 

Don't get me wrong: I'm neither for or against. I am however at a loss as to how to formulate a constructive and more importantly, a persuasive argument to put to the devs in requesting a feature-change.

 

No problem Viper - I fully understand you.

 

I pull out the 16:9 example - please use my attached screens to compare and bring them to full-screen at you Monitor or use also the 1:1 pixel-size to understand fully what follows:

 

It's like this:

 

on a 16:9 1360x768

the actual zoom level is at the edge what is usable during a mission - you don't want to zoom out any further in normal use as the HUD becomes to fuzzy/small to read properly. - you will end up often to change your zoom/FOV during combat employment.

 

on 16:9 1920x1080

it is OK - HUD is good readable and you can make out details in the terrain without excessive use of zoom/FOV.

 

 

on 16:9 2560x1440

you will have the feeling that your head is in the HUD.

You want to zoom out further to a FOV of around 120° (instead of the default) the HUD will be as good readable as on 1920x1080 but you will profit from the higher immersion and situation awareness - you simply have enough pixel to "spend".

 

 

So I think what the people bugs most is that most of them don't know how to edit the Default [KP-Enter] FOV/set up their own cockpit view - to get instantly to their preferred FOV and they simply wait first once that the image has stabilised and than have to adjust their FOV to a value that they can use.

 

 

That's why I posted this:

Cockpit View Angle settings in the GUI

as it will solve "many problems" with the view at once.

 

 

also @ all:

I thought that I made it clear in this quoted posting already.

I mean this what follows absolute serious:

so please ask if there are some understanding problems whit a post of mine - tell me if it is confusing or not quite clear what I'm talking of, I'm the last that gets pissy about it... (I hope so :)).

 

So we can prevent misunderstandings in the future.

:)

 

Example:

you use 1920x1200 = 16:10

 

Now scale your image down to 1680x1050 = 16:10

 

and you will see that the HUD becomes very fuzzy to read and you may want to zoom in a little on a 1680x1050 display.

 

And now scale this screen-shot again down to 1280x768 - and you will see that what works nice on 1920x1200 is pretty useless on 1280x768.

 

And here is the opposite:

 

use a windowed 16:9 res e.g. 1920x1080

 

and scale it up to 2560x1440.

 

And than you should clearly be able to imagine that you may want to zoom out at 2560x1440 a little more- because you have enough pixels available to read everything easily at a higher FOV as on a 1920x1080 display.

 

 

Conclusion:

There is simply no "universal" setting that fits all.

 

 

Can come in handy for your tests:

Fix: adding a custom resolution to in-game options.

 

 

The only solution to please everyone would be something like this:

Cockpit View Angle settings in the GUI

Edited August 15, 2012 by PeterP

[Ali Fish]

^^^^^^

 

Neither constructive nor persuasive.

 

Anybody else?

 

give your requirment for a persuasive arguments to get it changed. Yes thats a bit rediculous.

[PeterP]

Guys, sorry - to all that think to post something similar...

If you aren't interested in the topic any more - than simply don't post in it.

It's so simple.

Give the person you want to reach a PM or whatever.

 

Thanks

*I didn't spend 1.5 hours to make these tests and post them (yes - also for you) just to see you arguing how someone express his opinion.*

Edited August 15, 2012 by PeterP