Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[159th_Viper]

Yeah, exactly. I would have thought the onus is on Rift to make it work as opposed to ED having to make it work.

[secret1962]

VIRTUAL REALITY...

Do you type messages in a jet in real life ? That's what voice chat is for.

I can write without looking at the keyboard. ALSO, if you really needed to you could just move it up so you could see keyboard or just type, make an error and then correct position ;) The ways are multiple, but this must be supported !

[PeterP]

Yeah, exactly. I would have thought the onus is on Rift to make it work as opposed to ED having to make it work.

 

...first multi-monitors and now this crazy attempt to get the user into the environment, ...yeah, exactly- it's sure too much asked that ED makes his homework and clearly defines what is menat to be a 2d object or drawn in 3d...

[Kuky]

Yeah, how are you going to operate FC3 or other flyables without having regard to the keyboard?

 

I've been flying FC without keyboard for years already, everything can be either programmed into HOTAS and/or switch. I only use keyboard (and I hate to use it while flying) is when I need to type in chat window online.

 

Granted, to use/press/flip a switch you still need to see where it is same as with keyboard so that problem is still there :noexpression:

[159th_Viper]

I've been flying FC without keyboard for years already....

 

That's the point. You are a veteran. ED needs/has to cater for the lowest common denominator, ie the new guy with a £20 flight-stick. If I was told that I needed a £100 HOTAS just to begin when I first stumbled onto LockOn I would have told whoever told me that to get knotted and binned it. I relied heavily on my keyboard in the beginning.

 

Not saying that some type of support from ED should not be forthcoming. What I am saying is that at the very least Rift needs to also pull finger and allow support for some type of virtual keyboard or the like. Has it even been mentioned/contemplated by Rift?

[Flim]

The keyboard is a non issue... That is why you have a Hotas. Oculus has the SDK out to code in head tracking and also help make the Sbs view with distortion correction. It is worth the trouble so a player can actually be in the cockpit. Everyone will be in awe anyhow just sitting in the cockpit with 1:1 tracking. Talk about new customers... Official support would gain more new customers then the last 2 years combined... Over 10,000 rifts sold and all are looking for a cockpit environment to use it in.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Flim

[mhe]

If money talks, make Rift support a DCS module for 20 bucks or so. Problem solved. I wouldn't mind paying that, I think if they do a decent job coding support, they should be rewarded. If they don't manage to do it themselves, it would be nice to have the little workarounds like the HUD made in a way that Rift support can be done with aftermarked drivers (like a combination of IZ3D and NTHUSIM HMD). I don't need a keyboard. Mouse and voice commands will suffice. But I think it will need a vid of somebody with a Rift in combination with Leap controllers to convince them that this is the future. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the "other" customers of ED demand for support in the long run, so we might end up with a working implementation of VR support after all...

[metalnwood]

I can't believe there is any talk about not thinking ED should look in to this technology.

 

Everyone with an OR will be buying up software they dont usually use to get the experience and flight sims through out the history of home computers have always done reasonably well. It's an area I would expect to really grow when VR starts to take off.

 

Flim how does the mouse work? For those occasional buttons that you use which are not on the hots I guess its not too hard to use the mouse?

[mjeh]

That's the point. You are a veteran. ED needs/has to cater for the lowest common denominator, ie the new guy with a £20 flight-stick. If I was told that I needed a £100 HOTAS just to begin when I first stumbled onto LockOn I would have told whoever told me that to get knotted and binned it. I relied heavily on my keyboard in the beginning.

 

Completely agree, but that said I've known and used the proper touch method since I was 15 (and even before that I could find most keys without looking down at the keyboard just from muscle memory).

 

Anyone who splashes out for the rift is imo at least a borderline enthusiast pc gamer, and I'd wager most people who fall into that category know their way around a keyboard fairly well - at least to the point where they could map their most used aircraft functions to easily reachable keys. Add to that the fact that even most of the entry level joysticks have plenty of buttons on them, then that should be more than enough to service the functions of a FC-level fidelity aircraft. As for the study sim aircraft, you can use the mouse to clicky yourself around the cockpit in those. :thumbup:

 

EDIT: That said though, I doubt the people who buy the rift are likely to be part of this lowest common denominator in many respects anyway, and if ED doesn't give them their fix someone else will

Edited April 1, 2013 by mjeh

[BHawthorne]

One option for true fully interactive Rift with hands use would also be integration of Sixense SDK for Razer hydra. It's allows full 6DOF for each hand and 7 buttons per controller plus two analog sticks so you can actually work a virtual cockpit with your hands using virtual controls with the Hydra. This has advantages over something like the Leap because the Hydra is an actual physical controller that you can feel use of. It was best shown the last few days in Rift demos where the dev has fully integrated both the Hydra and the Rift. It takes more than just the Rift though to make the virtual cockpit viable. That adds in a lot more work for someone like Eagle Dynamics. I'm all for it but I see it as currently a very niche thing for them to allocate resources to. That's also why I'm pushing Nthusim HMD development to bridge the gap with some games and sims that simply can't afford to deal wiht the Rift right now.

 

Sixense's demo at GDC.

 

The Gallery's Hydra demo for their game. Slightly different implementation for similar end result.

 

Imagine in either case learning how to move your "arms" and "hands" around in a virtual cockpit and flicking panel switches with this. IMHO, it would be an acquired skill someone would need to get used to but it could work. I would probably feel pretty clumsy at first though. I've been using my Hydra for a week now for common tasks I used to use my mouse for to get used to it. Oculus likes to call a mouse and keyboard superhuman devices as they are super accurate and can do things that you can't do IRL. The Hydra feels a lot more sloppy to me than a mouse does, but it's one of hte most viable options right now for the Rift.

Edited April 2, 2013 by BHawthorne

[metalnwood]

The hydra looks interesting and while I dont play games like skyrim or the kind of thing that I think it would be good for I think the OR would make me want to have a go :)

 

Only issue for flying is that 99% of the time my hands are on the hotas for flying and needing to press a button makes me think the mouse or leap motion would be best. If leap motion could put a hand in game like the hydra then I think thats the perfect combo for an OR.

 

Then mouse as second option. It looks like the hydra would be the most awkward to pick up/put down unsighted everytime you wanted to flick switches.

 

I need to go to my sim and close my eyes to practice :)

[Flim]

I'm all about Nthusim HMD if it can make this work...

 

I also tend to agree with Metalnwood about how many new folks would join in the action.

 

BTW, the Rift is like wearing Ski goggles, you can slip it up a bit to see...

 

 

 

The Oculus Demo is pretty freaky in 3d , it feels weird because you can't see your hands for feet. The immersion is the best I have ever seen!

Edited April 2, 2013 by Flim

[themonster]

I'd just like to add my voice to the choir by saying I'm willing to pay extra if DCS supports Oculus Rift.

 

That is all.

[metalnwood]

I saw your post over at iracing as well Flim, even a Q for you I think :)

 

Interesting about the nthusim, for $19 I might just preorder itfor the future. I thought on and off about preordering the OR and never did. Part of the reason was because of glasses but I might get by without wearing them.

 

Flim, are there any games you have seen that you would use the OR for now as your main device even without the correct rendering to combat the distortion?

Edited April 2, 2013 by metalnwood

[Flim]

I saw your post over at iracing as well Flim, even a Q for you I think :)

 

Interesting about the nthusim, for $19 I might just preorder itfor the future. I thought on and off about preordering the OR and never did. Part of the reason was because of glasses but I might get by without wearing them.

 

Flim, is there anything you have seen that you would use the OR for now as your main device even without the correct rendering to combat the distortion?

 

You would think I'm getting paid by these guy... I wish, but I truly believe this is the future.

 

Either way, I hope BW and I can help test this in Nthusim HMD to get it working correctly.

 

The way the optics built, you have to have side side image and correction for lens curve, or it will look blurry. So you cannot use OR as your main monitor until a driver pops up to use it that way... which I'm suspecting there will be soon.

[BHawthorne]

The Oculus Demo is pretty freaky in 3d , it feels weird because you can't see your hands for feet. The immersion is the best I have ever seen!

 

Yep, I see the Rift as only half the solution. the other half is interfacing your hands and representing them on your body in-game with something like the Hydra. I'm not saying the Hydra is the ideal option but I'm saying something needs to be there tracking your arms and hands independent of each other and in real time in concert with the Rift to complete the immersion.

 

In many ways I see things much more exciting right now than they might be in two years from now. You might ask why now than in the future where this stuff is much more refined? It's because we're in the infantry of it right now and a devs will be trapped by a lot of pre-conceived notations on how the "ideal" standard way to implement things will be in the future. That in many ways stifles the creativity that is happening right now. It's like a land rush for new tech in how to use this thing. We're going to be a lot more stuck in our ways though a couple years down the road. It's why it's super important to innovate those paradigms for interfacing right now while people are still thinking anything is possible. The second people just take for granted this is the way it should be implemented we loose the innovation and vision that will really push this tech to the next level.

Edited April 2, 2013 by BHawthorne

[Flim]

Yep, I see the Rift as only half the solution. the other half is interfacing your hands and representing them on your body in-game with something like the Hydra. I'm not saying the Hydra is the ideal option but I'm saying something needs to be there tracking your arms and hands independent of each other and in real time in concert with the Rift to complete the immersion.

 

In many ways I see things much more exciting right now than they might be in two years from now. You might ask why now than in the future where this stuff is much more refined? It's because we're in the infantry of it right now and a devs will be trapped by a lot of pre-conceived notations on how the "ideal" standard way to implement things will be in the future. That in many ways stifles the creativity that is happening right now. It's like a land rush for new tech in how to use this thing. We're going to be a lot more stuck in our ways though a couple years down the road. It's why it's super important right now to innovate those paradigms for interfacing right now while people are still thinking anything is possible.

 

Agree

[cichlidfan]

I think Razer is trying to hitch the Hydra to OR as a shot at reviving it, or dumping their existing stock of it. Last I heard it was much in need of further work.

[BHawthorne]

I think Razer is trying to hitch the Hydra to OR as a shot at reviving it, or dumping their existing stock of it. Last I heard it was much in need of further work.

 

Sixense just released a 2.0 of the MotionCreator driver. The problem with the Hydra is that it existed as an experiment without a real target audience before. It's much more valid in a world where the Rift now exists. In 2010 when it initially came out there really was no target audience for it and the 1.0 drivers sucked. It's just an option. I wouldn't label it "THE" option though.

Edited April 2, 2013 by BHawthorne

[cichlidfan]

Sixense just released a 2.0 of the MotionCreator driver.

 

Good to know, it's bound to be a major improvement. I would not consider it THE answer either but at least, since it is being worked on, it might be a viable option for some situations.

 

EDIT: ...and Portal 2 would be quite cool with the Rift. :D

Edited April 2, 2013 by cichlidfan

[metalnwood]

I just had my first non real OR experience.

 

I loaded up a SBS youtube video of the tuscan demo on my 50" screen and went in to 3d mode. My head wanted to do summersaults right away, watching the pre warped image without being fixed took a few seconds to get used too. I got close so a lot of my vision was taken up and it looked awesome looking out of a window to the yard and then the mountains behind. everything was layered in 3d and it could only look a lot better in the real thing.

 

Now I just need to wait for more SBS OR video to arrive on youtube to look at :)

[BHawthorne]

I just had my first non real OR experience.

 

I loaded up a SBS youtube video of the tuscan demo on my 50" screen and went in to 3d mode. My head wanted to do summersaults right away, watching the pre warped image without being fixed took a few seconds to get used too. I got close so a lot of my vision was taken up and it looked awesome looking out of a window to the yard and then the mountains behind. everything was layered in 3d and it could only look a lot better in the real thing.

 

Now I just need to wait for more SBS OR video to arrive on youtube to look at :)

 

Ah cool idea. Going to try that on my LG smart hdtv right now. Throwing on the passive polarized glasses as I type. :thumbup:

[metalnwood]

Ah cool idea. Going to try that on my LG smart hdtv right now. Throwing on the passive polarized glasses as I type. :thumbup:

 

Hey, you didnt get april 1st pranked on the nthusim site did you?

 

I saw a guy ask if nthusim would support the OR in non stereo mode. He wanted both sides to have the same image because he only had one eye. Now, not wanting to make fun of anyone with only one eye but given it's april 1st over there I would have though a guy with only one eye wouldnt care what was on the other side of the screen.

 

I wonder if he pulled one past you :)

[BHawthorne]

Hey, you didnt get april 1st pranked on the nthusim site did you?

 

I saw a guy ask if nthusim would support the OR in non stereo mode. He wanted both sides to have the same image because he only had one eye. Now, not wanting to make fun of anyone with only one eye but given it's april 1st over there I would have though a guy with only one eye wouldnt care what was on the other side of the screen.

 

I wonder if he pulled one past you :)

 

I actually do have a few people asking for support for non-stereoscopic viewing unrelated to April Fools Day. :) At issue though the offset isn't enough to matter IMHO. Just keep in stereoscopic mode and view it with the one good eye. Of more importance are the people with 2 eyes that can't see stereoscopic depth though. A few people around here I know have that limitation.

 

About the SBS videos on YouTube. I only found 3. It seemed to me like the convergence wasn't dialed in right for my eyes. I could force my eyes to correct for it though.

Edited April 2, 2013 by BHawthorne

[metalnwood]

Youre right the convergence was odd. I tried this one

 

 

and thats what gave me the problem until I adjusted.

 

Is it people that can't see stereoscopic the problem or that people cannot merge the two images? In astronomy I find there are a number of people that cannot merge the image from binoculars. There is no stereo depth to the image but a lot of people cannot get the brain to merge them. It's a well documented thing and I wonder if a similar issue will be had with the OR. If so then having the same image on both sides wont matter. Another thing that cant help this is that people have different interpupillary distance which I dont think the OR caters for?