Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[metalnwood]

He is asking because DCS doesnt support the rift at the moment so you have to use trackir with the rift to get headtracking. Same with most other things for now.

[Burner_Tbird2]

We're going to be using the TIR for translation as the Rift dev kit can't handle that. But we 'should' be able to use Rift sensors for rotation. Just a question of if we can do it ourselves or if ED will have to add three variables to their code to pick it up.

[Maximus_G]

Probably the FPS would drop twice because there would be 2 frames rendered simultaneously. Though it's the case where i would be happy to have such an FPS drop )

[Sorin]

Probably the FPS would drop twice because there would be 2 frames rendered simultaneously. Though it's the case where i would be happy to have such an FPS drop )

 

Even when they will upgrade OR to 2x1920x1080 with a good video card it will work fine because resolution is not that high.

My system handles 5 monitors at 30 fps steady.

[mue]

Even when they will upgrade OR to 2x1920x1080 with a good video card it will work fine because resolution is not that high.

My system handles 5 monitors at 30 fps steady.

 

The resolution is not the problem. The problem is that two views must be rendered instead of only one.

[SkateZilla]

in the cockpit, you'll be rendering up to 12 Viewports at a time with Oculus, with a Single Screen, you'd be rendering 6.

 

2 for Main scene

2 for Left MFD w/ TGP/MAV

2 for Right MFD w/ TGP/MAV

2 For Left Mirror

2 for Right Mirror

2 for Center Mirror.

 

Rendering 3 separate viewports at 1080p for 3 screens is not the same as Rendering one large viewport at 5760x1080p for 3 screens.

 

in Eyefinity Single Viewport, the master Viewport is rendered at 5760x1080 ONCE, and everything inside of is is rendered ONCE, at their original Resolution (MFDs/Mirrors, etc)

 

in Extended 3 Viewports, Each Screen is having their own Viewport, so each Viewports and it's internal viewports are being rendered individually and linked.

 

 

There's a reason i get better FpS when using Eyefinity 5760x1080 w/ FoV Adjustments than when I use 3 individual Viewports.

Edited April 12, 2013 by SkateZilla

[SkateZilla]

I've been playing around with the Rift more... added track IR and got the view matched pretty well. The res is low, but you really feel like your in the plane. I can't wait for a high res screen, because this will be the only way to fly the virtual skies.

 

Its not really the resolution, but the Dot Pitch, the dev kits didnt use the screen they wanted to use, instead had to go with a larger screen w/ the same resolution, so the dot pitch is larger, and makes it look like it's a larger resolution.

 

ED implemented track ir support for DCS. Why is it so hard to believe that they would do the same for the rift?

 

Because Natural Point has a history of blocking, as in, If your Software uses a natural Point Plugin, they dont want you to use anything else, Search the forums, Im pretty sure it's well documented in regards to Eagle Dynamics and NaturalPoint and external headtracking to allow use of FreeTrack, etc.

 

Here is the future!!! lol

 

 

 

Yup, that's pretty much what I look like now.

[SkateZilla]

Maybe they don't want to invest a lot of dev time on an image generator that is going to be obsolete in the forseeable future. Not saying that this is what is happening, just a possibility to consider.

 

I think all ED needs to Do is Develope and Compile the Headtracking plugin, so you dont hav e to use TrackIR+Oculus, and just use Oculus.

[Scoggs]

I hope ot is eventually supported. I am only slightly worried about keayboard usage. I only use they keyboard for engine start, flaps and gear. Maybe they can add a camera to the front for overlay of real world view. Or even a peripheral with few buttons and high tactile keys.

[Shaman]

My personal view and I do not speak for Eagle on this:

 

I think this is very interesting, but until I see a means for easily viewing the keyboard hands-free, I am not sure how well this would work with a DCS title that often requires heavy keyboard use.

 

I have not been using keyboard-mouse combo on this PC to for 2 years already, here's how:

https://plus.google.com/108996188516230237446/posts/9PfbRxx6n9R

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=85031

Time is now to move to Oculus Rift.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Shaman

[mhe]

Also, there are possibilities like voice control, gestures with leap motion and the like, Valve at one time even had a tongue controller in the works for testing. Implementing Rift support would be viable just to see how the users overcome the "i see no keyboard" problem, therefore giving the devs some ideas to work from.

 

Also it will be a big selling point to be the first flight sim to have full native support when the consumer version launches. Rumor has it that a version 2 of the dev kit will come along sometime this year, perhaps already featuring a resolution high enough to be usable for modern flying (i.e. reading MFCDs without having to move your head nearer to them).

[zaelu]

the problem with the keyboard access can be solved either by using a command (voice or hotas button or "head gesture" eye blink or something) and by that activating either a virtual 3D "see through" keyboard/custom buttons (like menus etc) that can be controlled by a LEAP Motion device or the OCULUS could have 1 or 2 small cameras that would feed directly their image instead of the computer so the operator can type.

 

The first variant seems more feasible.

 

Also... some markers (like IR reflective letters/pointers) could be placed on the keyboard, Hotas and hands/fingers and with a IR sensor placed on OCULUS the real objects could get a holographic see though counterparts in VR at command (that might be useful for helping the gyroscopic sensor precision also).

[narfnarf]

I find the amount of complex solutions to a very simple problem astonishing. I'm already struggling with the featureless virtual keyboards on smartphones; gestures are simply not precise enough for more than two to four options. Voice activation is to slow (not the recognition but me talking).

I think the problem is not being able to see the keyboard (and notes, maps, the glass I'm going to take a nip from etc.). So, in my opinion, the Oculus Rift should support a "Glance under" function. A small pivot allowing to lift the hole thing a tiny bit could be enough. This could solve the "Wife enters and you have to take the hole thing of your head and put it back on for a short "Hey"" too.

One simple mechanical feature (far less buggy than every software solution) and loads of problems solved.

Add that and will buy this gadget (well, maybe I'll buy it in any case...).

[BaD CrC]

Guys. The whole cockpit on DCS titles is clickable. It means that you just need a point and click device to fly without ever touching a keyboard.

The only time you need the kb is to pause/unpause the game. And still, having a HOTAS, you probably can assign everything missing in the clickable cockpit on this device. A couple of hours training will suffice to avoid having to look at the HOTAS to flip the switches.

[mhe]

Yes they are clickable - all the more reason for just implementing Rift support instead of hiding behind the "oh, but you can't see your keyboard!" reasoning. :D

 

Of course that won't make flying FC3 easy with the Rift, but I guess one can't have everything.

[zaelu]

Ok narfnarf, then we add a marker on the glass (and the bottle for me) and one on the wife... eh?

 

joking :D

[narfnarf]

Oh, an acoustic marker (read siren) on the (not-yet) wife would be quite useful from time to time :-)

 

But joking aside I still think you guys throw many overly complex solutions on a very simple problem.

[zaelu]

well a mechanism that raise an lowers automatically the head set is also complicated imho... if it could be done by software it seems to me more simpler.

[Stacker]

When I mentioned to a friend of mine about the Oculus rift (he hadn't heard about them) and the problem of being able to access the keyboard he just laughed. He said why don't they just do it the way the military use VR goggles? They just make them with a gap on the bottom edge near your nose to allow you to look down at keyboards/controls etc.. You lose a bit of on the lower part of your peripheral vision but he says it's not too bad. Just a thought.

[narfnarf]

When I mentioned to a friend of mine about the Oculus rift (he hadn't heard about them) and the problem of being able to access the keyboard he just laughed. He said why don't they just do it the way the military use VR goggles? They just make them with a gap on the bottom edge near your nose to allow you to look down at keyboards/controls etc.. You lose a bit of on the lower part of your peripheral vision but he says it's not too bad. Just a thought.

 

That is a proper solution to the problem!

[narfnarf]

well a mechanism that raise an lowers automatically the head set is also complicated imho... if it could be done by software it seems to me more simpler.

 

Oh, not automatically, but operated manually by my very own hands and maybe fitted with a small lock to keep it in the upward position. Nothing fancy at all...

[zaelu]

The way I see it this Oculus has one "big" problem to solve... weight and weight distribution and when a mechanism (be it manual) with two locking positions is to be engineered the weight distribution problem just comes back with a vengeance. Again... just my opinion.

 

Of course... these are rationalizations from my part (seriously) and they may be correct or may not but if they are... I'd prefer a software/"leap motion" solution... cause is cooler :).

[mr_mojo97]

I've not read too much on this yet but it does raise some concerns for me so far. I think it will be an issue with those with home build pits as I think you would lose immersion if you have to manually move the screen from my eyes just to check my switches. Anyways some of the immersion is being able to see your hands on the stick and throttle and in those other cases - homepits. With this this system it doesn't sound like that is possible

[metalnwood]

I've not read too much on this yet but it does raise some concerns for me so far. I think it will be an issue with those with home build pits as I think you would lose immersion if you have to manually move the screen from my eyes just to check my switches. Anyways some of the immersion is being able to see your hands on the stick and throttle and in those other cases - homepits. With this this system it doesn't sound like that is possible

 

True, but what if you find your immersion is greater with an OR and something like leap motion which can put your hands in to the sim so you can flick all the virtual buttons by moving your arms and fingers around?

 

Would you go back to the real pit because it is real yet less immersive? BTW, this isnt the case with the dev units and I dont know if it would be the case with the first commercial units either.

[mr_mojo97]

I know what you mean but I think I'd like the touch of mechanical buttons and switches more, but I'm sure I'll be easily persuaded to try it! We'll see this time next year