Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[Flim]

The rift is much more comfy then NVG's... I've worn my at least 2 hours while flying war thunder.

 

Current rift res is usable for flying, but not for viewing detailed instruments.

 

I believe the 1080p version will be very usable with DCS.

 

Also, flying in 3d where you can judge distance is a huge benefit.

[Callsign.Vega]

I definitely am looking forward to purchasing a 1080P consumer version, but I heard not until 2014 now?

[Burner_Tbird2]

In ED's defense... they do have a little bit on their plate right now... who knows what lies beyond that... but I am happy with what they are focused on right now...

 

As little development time as is needed for Rift support, that just doesn't add up. Their current projects are year long or multi-year development cycles; they could have the Rift up and running and attract many new customers to their product right now.

[NineLine]

As little development time as is needed for Rift support, that just doesn't add up. Their current projects are year long or multi-year development cycles; they could have the Rift up and running and attract many new customers to their product right now.

 

They are changing a lot, not just on the surface, I am not sure the wisest choice right now is adding any more possible headaches until they have everything under the hood settled, but that's just my opinion.

[Mnemonic]

Guys you forget that HD Rift is only HALF of the 1920x1080 per eye, so in fact it is 960x1080 stretched throgh huge FOV. There is much less details to be seen than in any modern 3 monitor setup (even 1 monitor) for example.

 

Also HMZ T1 have 1280x720 per eye, It is more pixels horisontally then in HD Rift, and Rift Devkit only 640x800.

 

Hope this will clarify HD Rift obcession, it is not Full HD per eye, it is half of it.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Mnemonic

[KaspeR32]

Guys you forget that HD Rift is only HALF of the 1920x1080 per eye, so in fact it is 960x1080 stretched throgh huge FOV. There is much less details to be seen than in any modern 3 monitor setup (even 1 monitor) for example.

 

Also HMZ T1 have 1280x720 per eye, It is more pixels horisontally then in HD Rift, and Rift Devkit only 640x800.

 

Hope this will clarify HD Rift obcession, it is not Full HD per eye, it is half of it.

 

That means nothing. That's only what is currently possible. Right now.

 

The consumer version might have more than a 1080p screen. The release date is still a far ways off, heck with their new funding they might develop an in-house screen.

 

Anyway, you can't compare the Rift to 3 monitors. If all you care about is resolution, get a monitor. The Rift is about being fully immersed in a 3D environment. Can you get that with monitors? I think not.

[Mnemonic]

Anyway, you can't compare the Rift to 3 monitors. If all you care about is resolution, get a monitor. The Rift is about being fully immersed in a 3D environment. Can you get that with monitors? I think not.

 

1. Man, I'm HMD fan myself, I have 5 HMDs now in my collection, including Rift Devkit.

All I was telling that if there was not enough resolution to play DCS in Sony HMZ T1, Rift with HD panel will not be better (in terms of resolution than HMZ T1). It will be better if they put higher rez panel.

 

heck with their new funding they might develop an in-house screen.

Unfortunately I highly doubt, it is very high-cost process, with their funding now they cannot produce custom high-dencity panels.

 

2. But I also DCS fan, and I see that no matter if you are Fighter or Attack Aircraft pilot - resolution is crucial. It is essential to everyhting you do in DCS. An yes, I also have high-rez monitors.

[recoilfx]

1.

2. But I also DCS fan, and I see that no matter if you are Fighter or Attack Aircraft pilot - resolution is crucial. It is essential to everyhting you do in DCS. An yes, I also have high-rez monitors.

 

Unless you fly WWII birds, 1080p will be doable :)

 

I hope they will release two models though - one 1080p for ~$300, and one 1440p for ~$600

[Mnemonic]

Unless you fly WWII birds, 1080p will be doable :)

How is that? If you couldn't read anything on A-10C HUD or CDU?

I doubt you would be able to do so in 1080p Rift, you cannot zoom (change FOV) as you do with monitors, without having nausea.

Also you need to see targets with Eyeball Mark1 sometimes.

 

Consider this as my educated guess, not critics.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Mnemonic

[Succellus]

Oculus imho is much overhyped. Just because it has better res, it still bring a lot of issues.

As for now it has merely the same use that its low res grampas.

 

The issues at hand are the sames at 10 to 15 years ago.

You can t see your real cockpit environment -Hotas, keyboard, Pannel, MFD, re-center key etc - be it 100% cocpit like or not.

For FPS your aim ain t the ingame aim, moving is a chore because of the lack or your real environment awareness.

 

 

The only that will profit, are VR environment people, military/police environment training shooters maybe, 3d 360 movies, and "low player requirement games", like Matio bross race, basicly WII and Kinect based games.

And this will stay so until we have some serious tactile gloves with full environment setting, or a plug in the brain making us believe so. Because even a fully 3d mapped environmente will be a chore to config and map. If devices as voice activations are a pain, imagine a full 3d environment... any unintended movement and you will trip over your virtual invisible buttons.

 

So i m not even close to consider it, cause i ve seen this hype in the 90, in the Y2k, and now in Y201K.

The resolution, and movement head tracking are the least of the problems, and nobody has a solution for them.

 

Much faster than that will come flex monitors allied to extremely powerfull GFX cards able to support a 360 dome.

Those will make the Occulus rift and its kind mostly obsolete as you will be able to stand inside a cockpit, administrate mucj better fps even with, why not, a mockup weapon to point at targets, and have much more fluid and natural reactions than what you would have with occulus rift kind of device.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Succellus

[Flim]

Oculus imho is much overhyped. Just because it has better res, it still bring a lot of issues.

As for now it has merely the same use that its low res grampas.

 

The issues at hand are the sames at 10 to 15 years ago.

You can t see your real cockpit environment -Hotas, keyboard, Pannel, MFD, re-center key etc - be it 100% cocpit like or not.

For FPS your aim ain t the ingame aim, moving is a chore because of the lack or your real environment awareness.

 

 

The only that will profit, are VR environment people, military/police environment training shooters maybe, 3d 360 movies, and "low player requirement games", like Matio bross race, basicly WII and Kinect based games.

And this will stay so until we have some serious tactile gloves with full environment setting, or a plug in the brain making us believe so. Because even a fully 3d mapped environmente will be a chore to config and map. If devices as voice activations are a pain, imagine a full 3d environment... any unintended movement and you will trip over your virtual invisible buttons.

 

So i m not even close to consider it, cause i ve seen this hype in the 90, in the Y2k, and now in Y201K.

The resolution, and movement head tracking are the least of the problems, and nobody has a solution for them.

 

Much faster than that will come flex monitors allied to extremely powerfull GFX cards able to support a 360 dome.

Those will make the Occulus rift and its kind mostly obsolete as you will be able to stand inside a cockpit, administrate mucj better fps even with, why not, a mockup weapon to point at targets, and have much more fluid and natural reactions than what you would have with occulus rift kind of device.

 

 

That is what people use to say about the computer... lol

 

flying low res even with the development kit is still more enjoyable than those 4k monitors... I had a Dell 4k...

[Pnume]

Oculus imho is much overhyped. Just because it has better res, it still bring a lot of issues.

As for now it has merely the same use that its low res grampas.

 

The issues at hand are the sames at 10 to 15 years ago.

You can t see your real cockpit environment -Hotas, keyboard, Pannel, MFD, re-center key etc - be it 100% cocpit like or not.

For FPS your aim ain t the ingame aim, moving is a chore because of the lack or your real environment awareness.

 

 

The only that will profit, are VR environment people, military/police environment training shooters maybe, 3d 360 movies, and "low player requirement games", like Matio bross race, basicly WII and Kinect based games.

And this will stay so until we have some serious tactile gloves with full environment setting, or a plug in the brain making us believe so. Because even a fully 3d mapped environmente will be a chore to config and map. If devices as voice activations are a pain, imagine a full 3d environment... any unintended movement and you will trip over your virtual invisible buttons.

 

So i m not even close to consider it, cause i ve seen this hype in the 90, in the Y2k, and now in Y201K.

The resolution, and movement head tracking are the least of the problems, and nobody has a solution for them.

 

Much faster than that will come flex monitors allied to extremely powerfull GFX cards able to support a 360 dome.

Those will make the Occulus rift and its kind mostly obsolete as you will be able to stand inside a cockpit, administrate mucj better fps even with, why not, a mockup weapon to point at targets, and have much more fluid and natural reactions than what you would have with occulus rift kind of device.

 

I own a kit and honestly you sound like a worm talking about the sun.

 

I tried Live for Speed ( a race sim) with vireio. The issues you points for sims (I played with a wheel) are pretty much non-issues even though it is a matter of personnal convenience. The resolution of the current rift already give a very convincing experience.

 

Btw having played Half life 2 with the rift for hours your comment about FPS is a bit funny :pilotfly:

Sure it is lacking in certain areas and for some games it shows but the main problem is the resolution and it should be solve pretty quickly. The 1080p should be enough for many kind of experiences. I'm sure the 1440p won't be that far behind too.

 

Haters gonna hate :music_whistling:

[npole]

Haters gonna hate :music_whistling:

 

They aren't really haters, but "old people" (i'm talking about their mentality) that refuses to accept the innovation because they doesn't really understand how it works: if I don't understand something, I call it "useless".

 

Luckily these ppl are left behind by the progress. They won't cause much damage tho (unless they can make decisions, and most of them can't)... you can just ignore em. ;)

[Succellus]

I own a kit and honestly you sound like a worm talking about the sun.

 

I tried Live for Speed ( a race sim) with vireio. The issues you points for sims (I played with a wheel) are pretty much non-issues even though it is a matter of personnal convenience. The resolution of the current rift already give a very convincing experience.

 

Btw having played Half life 2 with the rift for hours your comment about FPS is a bit funny :pilotfly:

Sure it is lacking in certain areas and for some games it shows but the main problem is the resolution and it should be solve pretty quickly. The 1080p should be enough for many kind of experiences. I'm sure the 1440p won't be that far behind too.

 

Haters gonna hate :music_whistling:

 

As for worm talking about the sun, i was there a bit before you maybe, in the 90, i almost bought a device, but was lucky to be able to test it first, and resolution wasn t really the problem. Even with ef2000 and simpler hotas of that time it wasn t really working. 20 years after and we are still there, at the same point.

As about how it work i saw some videos exposing it, nothing new here, just more of the same more advanced, henceforth same issues.

Anyone using it for flamming cliff 3 for example, X-series, Evochron, A10c ? Guess not, and YET is far, especially with a functional cockpit

 

As i sayd "low requirement games", should have worded low IRL "ambience", which racing fall under, a wheel and 3 pedals.

HL2 is a low tier FPS in device demand, don t need much but a multi button mouse + arrows.

 

I would be surprise if your able to play it with multi comunication channels, multi options weaponry like Arma3 were you need much more commands. Althought some devices conjunction could dampen the problem like "complex" Throttle + Mouse .

 

Haters gonna hate, fanboys gonna lick it keeping it shinny...:music_whistling:

 

I m not a hater, it just the fact its a scheme that has still too many constraints with no simple way to deal with, at least for more demanding sims, or peole that already have some kind ofcockpit mockup...

Edited July 10, 2013 by Succellus

[metalnwood]

I race open tops so everything I need is on the wheel and I can access it without seeing it.

 

The OR is going to be awesome for this when the resolution is right.

 

It is far to broad a statement to say that this is not going to work for sims. There are plenty of sims that this is going to work for. There are still questions to be answered for the other parts that tie it all together like interacting with the virtual cockpit.

 

You know there are still flight simmers about that like to fly simple aircraft that dont have these interation issues you are talking about.

 

Here are some common sim scenarios that there are still a lot of people around that like to do.

 

Rise of flight - everything can be done off hotas without looking.

il2, other ww2. Similar to above.

Gliding - The OR would give the most awesome experience for gliding in simulators.

Bush flying in something like xpx, fsx with good old stick/rudder planes.

racing.

 

Your generalisation of the technology is only applicable to a few highly interactive cockpits, not simulation as a whole.

[Flim]

Lol, I train in level D simulators and still have more fun flying in the rift. Better resolution and positional tracking will be the most awesome advancement for gaming/entertainment . Can't wait!

Edited July 11, 2013 by Flim

[Pnume]

As for worm talking about the sun, i was there a bit before you maybe, in the 90, i almost bought a device, but was lucky to be able to test it first, and resolution wasn t really the problem. Even with ef2000 and simpler hotas of that time it wasn t really working. 20 years after and we are still there, at the same point.

As about how it work i saw some videos exposing it, nothing new here, just more of the same more advanced, henceforth same issues.

Anyone using it for flamming cliff 3 for example, X-series, Evochron, A10c ? Guess not, and YET is far, especially with a functional cockpit

 

As i sayd "low requirement games", should have worded low IRL "ambience", which racing fall under, a wheel and 3 pedals.

HL2 is a low tier FPS in device demand, don t need much but a multi button mouse + arrows.

 

I would be surprise if your able to play it with multi comunication channels, multi options weaponry like Arma3 were you need much more commands. Althought some devices conjunction could dampen the problem like "complex" Throttle + Mouse .

 

Haters gonna hate, fanboys gonna lick it keeping it shinny...:music_whistling:

 

I m not a hater, it just the fact its a scheme that has still too many constraints with no simple way to deal with, at least for more demanding sims, or peole that already have some kind ofcockpit mockup...

 

I actually tried a vr device somewhere in the first half of the nineties. It was not a product for sale but an attraction in an amusement park. Pretty impressive at that time but shitty by today's standards.

 

It doesn't even come close to the rift. They are world apart.

 

I'm sure you have convince yourself that it is crap and so it is but can we give any credit to someone who talk about something he haven't tried? Are you even honest with yourself there?

[average_pilot]

20 years after and we are still there, at the same point.

Everything you say does pretty much sense. Except that single point. With OR we are not at the same point. If you ever have a chance to try it you'll know it. You may still not like it anyway, it doesn't have to please everybody, but you'll know that it's not the same than 20 years ago.

[npole]

It's the same concept of years ago, but with a big important difference: the screens (at human price) required to build a effective HMD appeared only today.

You could have imagined the same HMD 10 years ago, but you couldn't have built it.

This is why the Oculus Rift is finally the real deal, and not the "virtual reality" we're used to see advertised around years ago.

The fact that ED is ignoring it (and the devkit) while the rest of the world is implementing it in any type of game is really frustrating.

If you ever tried a OR you know what I am talking about.. it gives so much fun that really "forces" you to play something else who supports it, because your favorite game (in this case DCS) doesn't work with it.

One example? War Thunder has nothing to do much with a simulator, neither I like it much, but with the OR IT IS a blast! ..and more you play it, more you ask yourself: why the hell ED is not moving a finger?

This is really frustrating...

[average_pilot]

I was referring to the 'sense of being there' achieved by the OR. That was absent in older designs that felt more like you are looking at a screen floating in the dark.

[Vivoune]

there has been a little revolution in screen technologies the past few years, mostly thanks to the smart phone boom and portable tablets. That's why the OR is now possible. It still needs the tech to go a bit further though so it can be made with great resolution and more cheaply, right now most high-tech screen manufacturers kind of laugh at OculusVR when they present the low numbers they'd like manufactured when they're used to big numbers cellphone contracts, that's a barrier. but with 4320p screens coming our way (aka 8k) and always ongoing miniaturization who knows where we'll be a year or two from now.

[Mnemonic]

I was referring to the 'sense of being there' achieved by the OR. That was absent in older designs that felt more like you are looking at a screen floating in the dark.

Oculus Rift optical design, and all the pre-warping image technique mimics Leap design:

http://www.leepvr.com/about.php

Which was used in professional HMDs in the eighties.

I have HMD from 1993, with 120 degree FOV, which provides similar sense.

 

Benefit is that now all the components are cheap enough to build similar HMD but much cheaper, and also lighter and better rez.

[tintifaxl]

ED concentrates on EDGE now - I guess there is just no time to implement new features right now.

[Cyb0rg]

Oculus Rift optical design, and all the pre-warping image technique mimics Leap design:

http://www.leepvr.com/about.php

Which was used in professional HMDs in the eighties.

I have HMD from 1993, with 120 degree FOV, which provides similar sense.

 

Benefit is that now all the components are cheap enough to build similar HMD but much cheaper, and also lighter and better rez.

 

Yeah. Check this in the 60s.

 

 

 

Keyboard was out of question, i guess.

[Mnemonic]

Man, your sarcasm here is unnecessary, it is not smart here.

And btw this Toshiba helm is from 200x era.

Did you opened the link on leepvr?

 

Read this: http://www.leepvr.com/spie1990.php

 

Distortion is certainly necessary, for example, if a 180° field of view, or even something approaching it, is to be contained on a flat plane, as it must be in order to appear in most video systems. In the case of the LEEP system, a very wide field of view is warped onto a plane surface by a fisheye-like transformation. Of course this transformation must be undone and the correct angles of view restored if the space is to be correctly rendered for the person viewing, who, we then say, sees an "orthospace."

 

Palmer himself says this in every video that it is nothing new, just finally affordable, and with better specs.

I love Rift actually, this is the best HMD in my collection, I just see that it is not suitable for DCS yet.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Mnemonic