Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[rcjonessnp175]

I agree. Some do some don't. Apparently no one does with Vive. Not a big deal though, I'm sure the problem will be solved by all headsets eventually.

 

I hear ya but I wonder has the vive been used with an flight simulator ? Those cheap little vr demos are far from a flight sim. My concern is they will just shoot the 5 meter tgt that being fluidity for demos and not look at the 300m tgt like real games or simulators.

[Chivas]

"Carmack acknowledged that motion sickness is a "real issue," noting that he's been surprised that no one has uploaded videos to YouTube of people using an Oculus headset and then throwing up." March 2015

 

"Valve, however, claims that the motion sickness problem has been solved, saying that no one at all reported motion sickness while using its new virtual reality headset."

 

Oculus will get there. If Vive can do it so can Oculus.

 

Cormack was talking about the early DK1, and DK2 prototypes in the hands of the public, which could be used in Youtube videos. There are no new Oculus Crescent Bay prototypes in the public hands. That said motion sickness is a big issue and isn't solely dependent on the VR hardware as I already tried to explain to you.

 

Cormack is right, motion sickness is a big issue. Vive and Oculus can claim all they want that they have addressed the motion sickness issue, but we won't know that until units are being used by the public as apposed to Event demos used with controlled software for a few minutes.

 

If your going to use quotes try to make them relevant.

[rcjonessnp175]

Well I do pretty good with it at its current state. I keep trying to go back to my other screen setup in my sig bit I keep going back to the rift it's just to dam good for flying. Combat is great now to after time in the device and great settings

[average_pilot]

I think that the motion sickness problem will be considered solved once you don't get sick in situations where you don't usually get sick, like driving a car. But motion sickness in VR can't be 100% eradicated for the same reason that a ride on a bus in a road full of curves can make people sick, to tell an example.

Edited April 25, 2015 by average_pilot

[FatSlapper]

Motion sickness is a conflict of horizon signals to the brain, one from the inner ear and the visual one from the eyes. It is an evolutionary trait if these signals get mixed the brain thinks you have been poisoned and trys to purge Your stomach.

Some people get motion sickness and some don't.

If Your vision sees a horizion and your ears feel a different horizon you may become sick.

This cannot be "fixed" by a visual display that You wear over your eyes, unless your eyes can see the same horizon that your ears are feeling.

This will always be a problem with VR that obscures your real vision.

[blksolo]

I think motion sickness has been eliminated or at least drastically reduced since DK1. With DK1 I would get instant motion sickness in any First person shooter,especially Half-Life 2. As soon as I moved it felt like my brain was frying. I never got any sickness with DCS with DK1. When I bought a DK2 I tried Half Life 2 again,knowing that I would be sick as soon as I took a forward step.No sickness at all,I played for 2 hours straight where I wouldnt have lasted 2 minutes with DK1.

[KLR Rico]

I've never tried the rift (any version), but I've been playing around with a durovis "open dive". It's kind of like google cardboard and uses your phone as the display.

 

I messed around streaming DCS to my phone with shadowplay and limelight, starting off with my note 2, which was 720p. You could definitely see the pixels, and it had the screen door effect. Then I was borrowing my wife's S4, which is 1080p. It was a pretty good improvement, but not quite there. Now I have an S6 and at 1440p, you can pick out the pixels, but they don't detract from the experience too much. I'd compare it to playing in 720p on a normal display. Certainly not the best, but quite playable, IMHO.

[average_pilot]

Motion sickness is a conflict of horizon signals to the brain, one from the inner ear and the visual one from the eyes. It is an evolutionary trait if these signals get mixed the brain thinks you have been poisoned and trys to purge Your stomach.

Some people get motion sickness and some don't.

If Your vision sees a horizion and your ears feel a different horizon you may become sick.

This cannot be "fixed" by a visual display that You wear over your eyes, unless your eyes can see the same horizon that your ears are feeling.

This will always be a problem with VR that obscures your real vision.

That describes motion sickness really well. But in the case of VR there are technological factors that make it worse, like lag, low fps, motion blur or inconsistent headtracking. Once all these factors are ironed out there still will be the motion sickness you describe.

 

Well I do pretty good with it at its current state. I keep trying to go back to my other screen setup in my sig bit I keep going back to the rift it's just to dam good for flying. Combat is great now to after time in the device and great settings

Aside immersion, what makes VR so enjoyable with simulators is how you can look around in a completely natural way. In fact I think it may be the most important feature for simulators to the point that I find desirable headsets with a lot less FOV (hence more pixel density) and moderate fps requirements. That would allow to use simulators with a VR headset effectively today and not having as with the "it's ok now, kind of... it will get better in the future" attitude.

[rcjonessnp175]

That describes motion sickness really well. But in the case of VR there are technological factors that make it worse, like lag, low fps, motion blur or inconsistent headtracking. Once all these factors are ironed out there still will be the motion sickness you describe.

 

Aside immersion, what makes VR so enjoyable with simulators is how you can look around in a completely natural way. In fact I think it may be the most important feature for simulators to the point that I find desirable headsets with a lot less FOV (hence more pixel density) and moderate fps requirements. That would allow to use simulators with a VR headset effectively today and not having as with the "it's ok now, kind of... it will get better in the future" attitude.

 

It's ridiculous how much better it is than trac ir 5. Sitting in the ka50 or a10 or heck any aircraft it's amazing how you are their. One thing I notice right off the bat is how much less I feel the need to move my head around for SA in the rift compared to my other screen setup with trac ir. not to mention the perception of the actual 3d space and flight in general is amazing.

[Hadwell]

what? with trackir to look behind you, you only need to move your head 18 degrees (if that's what you set) whereas with the rift, you need to have the neck of an owl, and it gets pretty painful after a while having to look 180 degrees behind you to look directly back...

 

there is nothing about the rift that's more comfortable or easier than using a 2d monitor +trackIR, except at a certain distance, depth perception.

 

I also own a DK2.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Hadwell

[rcjonessnp175]

what? with trackir to look behind you, you only need to move your head 18 degrees (if that's what you set) whereas with the rift, you need to have the neck of an owl, and it gets pretty painful after a while having to look 180 degrees behind you to look directly back...

 

there is nothing about the rift that's more comfortable or easier than using a 2d monitor +trackIR, except at a certain distance, depth perception.

 

I also own a DK2.

 

Your not understanding, the 1/1 blows trac ir out of water. your small little movement to equal lots of movement with trac ir doesn not sync with your brain eye group very well. Where as in the rift its exactly like being their as far as where you look. Also rift isnt meant to be a neck movement, its a full body movement just like it is in a real pit. In my opinion its way better. If people are in pain from those movements then i suggest more physical activity lol....

 

Just a side note my previous statement was not in regards to actual movement in the rift, it was meant to convey the feeling of better situational awareness. In the rift i dont feel the need to constantly turn my head like i do in trac ir. You dont have that presence with trac ir that you do with the rift. Much more natural.

Edited April 26, 2015 by rcjonessnp175

[Chivas]

As of March 4 2015 at The Game Developers Conference,nausea was obviously still a problem with Oculus according to Carmack. Its not a big issue but still an issue.

I don't know if Vive have used flight sims. I doubt it. As far as flight sims and VR, that combo will take the longest to get developed right. We are just getting a sampling so far, of what might be. Its gonna be a while before this is good enough for simming IMO.

 

Your suggestion that Oculus still has a motion sickness problem while Vive doesn't is as usual totally ridiculous. Carmack did suggest that motion sickness is still a problem for "ALL" VR hardware, IF the software used with the VR unit isn't properly coded for VR, and/or the action in the software isn't suited for VR. We are especially not going to see software demoing Valve or Oculus's latest prototypes at VR Events that will have people feel motion sick.

 

That said, I think the Oculus and Vive consumer hardware will have specs good enough for most people to avoid motion sickness, IF and ONLY IF they run properly coded VR software, and software that's a good fit for VR. Vive nor Oculus will have much control over the software that will be run on their units. They can only suggest "Best Practices" guidelines.

[Chivas]

Your not understanding, the 1/1 blows trac ir out of water. your small little movement to equal lots of movement with trac ir doesn not sync with your brain eye group very well. Where as in the rift its exactly like being their as far as where you look. Also rift isnt meant to be a neck movement, its a full body movement just like it is in a real pit. In my opinion its way better. If people are in pain from those movements then i suggest more physical activity lol....

 

Just a side note my previous statement was not in regards to actual movement in the rift, it was meant to convey the feeling of better situational awareness. In the rift i dont feel the need to constantly turn my head like i do in trac ir. You dont have that presence with trac ir that you do with the rift. Much more natural.

 

There is no doubt that turning to check six is definitely a lot harder in VR than with TrackIR, but that doesn't make TrackIR realistic. I know as I've grown older, I've lost a lot of flexibility, and just turning to backup my car is much more difficult. My VR cockpit will definitely have to have chair that swivels a little to be competitive with the flexibility I had forty years ago. lol

[rcjonessnp175]

There is no doubt that turning to check six is definitely a lot harder in VR than with TrackIR, but that doesn't make TrackIR realistic. I know as I've grown older, I've lost a lot of flexibility, and just turning to backup my car is much more difficult. My VR cockpit will definitely have to have chair that swivels a little to be competitive with the flexibility I had forty years ago. lol

 

lol amen a swivel chair is a goood idea!!

[HeadHunter52]

Not sure I could afford the Rift, but I do fly with the TIR5. A cervical injury makes the TIR the sensible answer for me.

[hannibal]

what? with trackir to look behind you, you only need to move your head 18 degrees (if that's what you set) whereas with the rift, you need to have the neck of an owl, and it gets pretty painful after a while having to look 180 degrees behind you to look directly back...

 

but this is DCS, it is a sim..

i mean like air force/navy fighter pilots use trackIR in their multi million dollar aircraft?

I THINK NOTTTTTTT!

 

1:1 tracking > trackIR

 

OCULUS RIFT/VAVLE VIVE FTW!

[average_pilot]

Forget the desktop monitor paradigm, now you are inside cockpit. You use your whole upper body to look back. And that extra body gym is really great to have a healthier spine. :thumbup:

[average_pilot]

As I've tried to explain, motion sickness can't be avoided completely because it's a natural reaction of the body. The challenge is to reach a point where the VR technology does not induce motion sickness when you are not suppose to.

Anyway, just my opinion, though.

[average_pilot]

Yup. :thumbup: RL combat pilots move around in their immovable seat quite a bit despite being strapped in. Best thing for a sore neck is exercise.

With moderation ;)

[SkateZilla]

IRL pilots are not strapped in so tight that they cant lean forward, the Seats straps are like a seatbelt on a car (well sorta), they lock in certain conditions and pull tight in others, but other than that they have give in them.

 

As for motion sickness with a HMD, theres no way to solve it, some users will be more sensitive to wearing the device than others, plain and simple.

 

Even the consumer rift, will have some users with motion sickness and have to return or sell 2nd hand.

 

The best option is to find a cheap way to test your limits, whether its an cardboard android HMD playing videos, or a DK1/2 etc.

 

Resolution isnt the issue, smoothness and accuracy of motion is, so FPS/refreshrate is a key factor, however it also depends on how sensitive your brain is to receiving mixed signals from different senses.

Edited April 27, 2015 by SkateZilla

[Chivas]

I wasn't talking to you. Stop with the rude argumentative posts to me. I would like you to ignore me. I don't want to get involved with you.

 

 

Sorry as long as you keep passing on misinformation to the community, I will call you out. Motion sickness is a problem in VR, and suggesting Oculus has the problem, and Vive doesn't, is totally ridiculous, and should be called out. You know you can support one product without having to spread misinformation about another. :)

[DerekSpeare]

I experienced some slight "vertigo induced equilibrium confusion" with the Rift and DCS when I first used it, but it's my opinion that one must get used to it. While I didn't need a puke sack, and I understand some may, starting gradually with the Rift is the best way to go when you're new to it. It will pass if you stick with it.

[rcjonessnp175]

same here now i can do all the fancy acrobatic stuff and not even feel it. Before it was like oh boy here we go... our brains are amazing things

[doveman]

I get severe motion sickness from playing some fps games for a short while (thankfully I never get it playing ArmA) and get dizzy going down escalators (doesn't help that they shake!) so I don't expect to be able to cope with VR sadly. Mind you, it could be at least partially related to frame rate, so if I'm unable to maintain a steady 60fps in the FPS games but with a new GPU it would maintain 75+ for VR DCS then I might be OK, although I don't think having a hot sweaty headset on will help, so hope to see more goggle types available in future.

[hannibal]