Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[bongodriver]

Yes, some more info on setting this up would be great, I'm finding it really difficult to get satisfying results compounded with the fact that I can't tweak things in real time.

[blksolo]

I think a side by side video of the rift in DCS is just fine,that way we can watch it in the rift.

[blksolo]

One of the biggest problems I've seen so far in cockpit demos for the rift is that the sense of scale in the cockpit is way off.You feel like an infant in the seat. Here is a perfect example of bad sense of scale to look at if you have a rift.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjbpdo0QNTg

 

Here is a good example of the cockpit feeling just about right

[bongodriver]

I think a side by side video of the rift in DCS is just fine,that way we can watch it in the rift.

 

Yeah but the .lua file needs to have the separation set correctly and I think this will vary depending on user, so far I have read nothing that intuitively explains that separation.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

you need to mod stereo lua file in camera folder

 

Yeah but the .lua file needs to have the separation set correctly and I think this will vary depending on user, so far I have read nothing that intuitively explains that separation.

 

 

you need to mod stereo lua file in camera folder

 

I'll give you my settings in a few hours i have to run to a meeting

 

basicall left and right are opposite

off the top of my head

 

viewdx .1 and -.1

shift eye .03 and -.03

 

I'll correct later if that's wrong

 

1280x800 yields the best fov cockpit but things are too fuzzy.

 

1440x900 or 1650x1080 is much better looking if you can support the framerate I do add a bit of aa

[maddabboyahoo.com]

viewdx is correcting the far focus point you need it near infinity

default is much closer and make you severly cross eyed

 

shifteye is the ipd setting

 

I still don't have teh shift eye perfect for me but it's good

 

tweaking dx is hard to notice better than .1

.01 is way off

.2 is way off

 

.075 to 1.25 seem to work for dx

 

shift .03 seams okay at some distances but nothing works for all disnatance in the cockpit yet

 

.05 is too much and .015 is too small still tweaking

[bongodriver]

I tried separation(shifteye) at .032 with the idea that the decimal figures were millimetres and therefore half my IPD, made sense to me and seems I was on the right lines, the sooner ED get native OR support the better, this is all a bit of a palaver for not a hugely satisfying result.

Edited January 30, 2014 by bongodriver

[Frusheen]

this is all a bit of a palaver for not a hugely satisfying result.

 

I agree. We need native support. Even with stereo lua and Nthusim combined to set the scale things are not enjoyable. Native tracking is also needed. I've had my rift for a long time now and I have found the novelty factor has worn off with DCS at this stage. I find myself going to properly implemented titles now when using the rift (lunar flight, live for speed, ets2 etc..)

 

Hopefully DCS will offer properly implemented support soon.

[average_pilot]

Maybe the problem is that with the current implementation of stereo the center of projection isn't at the center of the Rift's lens, making it difficult to use the current separation setting.

[bongodriver]

That makes some sense.

[average_pilot]

I foresight a future where people will use his/her VR avatar to meet other's people avatars in a 3D planning room of an airbase in DCS-VR universe, and after that they'll go downstairs to head to the platform or hangar to board their flying machines after a quick walk-around.

 

Just dreaming awake late at night :)

Edited January 31, 2014 by average_pilot

[hannibal]

hey you guys who are using oculus rift DK1...

i like to ask,

HOW IS THE SCALE OF DCS WORLD?

 

im worried that once the consumer version is out, DCS will be far from ready..

especially in terms of scale where you end up feeling like a 5 foot midget in an aircraft...

(it has happened to HAWKEN)

or if DCS world like a scale model which the pilot is a giant in a huge plane and crimea is 1/10 (or double) the size of how it is in real life...

 

comments!

[blksolo]

I have used my rift to view DCS videos on youtube and the scale is off,but keep in mind they were done with 3rd party software like vorpx etc. I dont think we will see any significant results until ED adds rift support which they just started working on. From what I understand rift support can be added to a game relatively easy,but it works best if it was built from the ground up with rift support. Very exciting days ahead!!

[maddabboyahoo.com]

Try this stereo.lua settings:

Note that dxview must be changed or you will see a nice stereo cockpit but will be crosseyed in the distance.

 

 

_ = function(p) return p; end;

name = _('Stereo');

Description = 'Stereo render two viewports for left and right eye respectivelly'

Viewports =

{

Left =

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = screen.width * 0.5;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = -0.1;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 2;

eye_shift = -0.032;

},

Right =

{

x = screen.width * 0.5;

y = 0;

width = screen.width * 0.5;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 0.1;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 2;

eye_shift = 0.032;

}

}

[maddabboyahoo.com]

These are the original stereo.lua settings.

Note dxview changed from .01 to .1; values near .1 fix the crosseyed distant focus point.

the eyes_shift value started at .06 and are about half at .032

 

 

 

_ = function(p) return p; end;

name = _('Stereo');

Description = 'Stereo render two viewports for left and right eye respectivelly'

Viewports =

{

Left =

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = screen.width * 0.5;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = -0.01;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 2;

eye_shift = -0.06;

},

Right =

{

x = screen.width * 0.5;

y = 0;

width = screen.width * 0.5;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 0.01;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect / 2;

eye_shift = 0.06;

}

}

[maddabboyahoo.com]

Those values work great for me at any 16:10 res.

The tracking is very good with opentrack. I dont use nthus at all with stereo and haven't gotten the latest version to work with dcs steam. I have win8.1 which breaks nthusims desktop from working.

 

Opentrack is using the rifts tracking and turning it into track IR 3dof. It's pretty darn good not differant for me from any oculus rdy title. Iracing and lunar flight both drift the same amount after calibration as does opentrack.

 

I was able to use xpadder and or autohotkey to setup mouse and keyboard macros for my stick. Initially i made my hat into the mouse motion and a button for mouse click. Then I added the center command from openflight to another joybutton. Inside DCS I added slow zoom in and out to 2 more buttons and zoom reset to another button.

 

So now with the joystick I can select things in the cockpit with the mouse on my stick. I can look around naturally like any oculus game same quality 3DOF. I can rescenter view zoom in and out and reset.

 

It works great.

 

I feel im not using the mouse on stick much and could easily reach my mouse for cockpit clicks so I will likely reclaim that hat for things and use the real mouse. I also have no trouble typing blind and using my keyboard with rift on but I'm an average typer without looking without the rift so I don't need ot see I just need to quickly touch and feel layout.

 

My biggest gripes currently with my current DCS play is clicking in cockpit is not nearly as accurate in stereo as single screen and so it's hard to use the click cockpit.

 

Performance is also not optimized to render like this so fps is too low with acceptable detail.

I think these things will improve. But I'm very happy with it now and easily place it with lunar flight

iracing

portal

mirrors edge

rof

 

all of which are great rift experiences.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

This is completely tunable with zoom in dcs right now.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

One of the biggest problems I've seen so far in cockpit demos for the rift is that the sense of scale in the cockpit is way off.You feel like an infant in the seat. Here is a perfect example of bad sense of scale to look at if you have a rift.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjbpdo0QNTg

 

Here is a good example of the cockpit feeling just about right

 

You can tune this fine in dcs right now with zoom

 

not sure you can save or set ideal default fov

Looking for that now

[blksolo]

I tried your settings and it was a lot better than before,but still a little bit off,I think the views also have to be distorted/bowed a bit to have the proper viewpoint.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

hey you guys who are using oculus rift DK1...

i like to ask,

HOW IS THE SCALE OF DCS WORLD?

 

im worried that once the consumer version is out, DCS will be far from ready..

especially in terms of scale where you end up feeling like a 5 foot midget in an aircraft...

(it has happened to HAWKEN)

or if DCS world like a scale model which the pilot is a giant in a huge plane and crimea is 1/10 (or double) the size of how it is in real life...

 

comments!

 

It feels like your in a real cockpit real size in a real world.

your teleported inside your current dcs monitor and the scale is all good.

 

There are two major things the make the rift a game changing experience IMHO.

 

1 the full coverage of your entire fov with game graphics. You are teleported into the game. It's happening in stereo 3d around you. It's the difference of going to the grand canyon and taking some pictures there. While you were there it was all around you everywhere you looked. The monitor is only a small picture of the grand world. It looking through a straw.

 

2 the head tracking is 1:1 not amplified. You look back over your shoulder and the camera is matched at that angle not a small movement amplified. This is pretty awesome for dogfighting or ground pounding

 

The problem is your near sighted or you haven't clean your helmet EVER. Your basically reverting to games about when max res was 1024x768. These games looked were okay back in the day and this is way better because its a much better world rendered at the res of those old games but it's still lower than the 1080p people expect as minimum today.

 

By the time it goes consumer it will be at least 1080p but not as sharp as that for many reasons. Still it will be way better than DK1. Read wags opinion of the HD oculus he tried.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

Possible 2D oculus setup for DCS

 

I'm going to try to make a new camera.lua that uses the same camera and places it side by side. I'm hoping this new lua file will show up and render a camera once and place it side by side for the rift.

 

This would be much faster but 2D. This would solve any issues people are having with crosseyed issues and double fps. Headtracking could still be used.

 

If this works it might be a nice way to play until they release a native oculus demo.

 

Also this would solve cockpit clicking issues.

 

 

Anyone know if this is impossible before I mess with it?

 

-michael

[hannibal]

It feels like your in a real cockpit real size in a real world.

your teleported inside your current dcs monitor and the scale is all good.

 

There are two major things the make the rift a game changing experience IMHO.

 

By the time it goes consumer it will be at least 1080p but not as sharp as that for many reasons. Still it will be way better than DK1. Read wags opinion of the HD oculus he tried.

 

ok, thank you for reply.

so your saying that the scale of the cockpit is good... :)

can you describe the scale of the world? the sky and so forth?

 

do you have a link to wags comments on DCS + oculus?

i have seen posts by Wags describing his amazing experience on the rift HD version and the Valve VR, BUT NOT on oculus + DCS specifically...

[maddabboyahoo.com]

ok, thank you for reply.

so your saying that the scale of the cockpit is good... :)

can you describe the scale of the world? the sky and so forth?

 

do you have a link to wags comments on DCS + oculus?

i have seen posts by Wags describing his amazing experience on the rift HD version and the Valve VR, BUT NOT on oculus + DCS specifically...

 

I was thinking of the same quotes you read. The valve vr and oculus HD comments.

I believe he like others said you can detect screen door still but you don't mind it. It just isn't something u notice as u are immersed.

 

I think some are more sensative to such things like motion. I can watch a track of others flying in the rift dogfighting as a passenger looking around on my own seperate from the way they flew and not get sick standing up. I pretty much started that way. I don't get motion sick and actually enjoy that drunk spinny feeling. I find that relaxing. That's a plus for using this for hours on end. I've only felt minorly ill after hours one or two times and even then was fine.

 

I have friends that have tried the headset on and looked sideways and got so sick he took it off before doing anything. That was the worst case. I've demoed LOTS.

 

So some people are really into little details. I started simming with an apple IIe with the sim that predated flight simulator 1. It was the WWI part of the game only and it was monochrome green on my computer. But I was flying! It was probably less that 1fps but I was flying and dogfighting the ai and dropping bombs. I played that for hours. So I am super freaking flying with the rift from where I came from. If your first sim is DCS on 1080P 60+fps then you have a differant viewpoint of what's acceptable. Everyone does.

 

I'm VERY happy in DCS right now with the DK1.

 

 

So scale. The best way to describe it is that scale is exactly as you've seen it in the game without the rift on your monitor. Exactly the same. It depends on your zoom settings and your monitor size and distance. The size things you've seen that are messed up are renders where they are not properly scaling the view into the rift for various reasons. The best way to prove this is to take a screenshot of what I see or movie but you can just do it yourself.

 

Set your view to stereo and keep your resolution the native monitor. The view should look good on each side scale wise not small. Note you'll be focused on the center of each side.

When I start the game I feel I must zoom in a touch to feel natural. But all is scaled correctly for all zoom levels in sync. There may be a default fov setting to locate to ideally set the starting fov.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

I tried your settings and it was a lot better than before,but still a little bit off,I think the views also have to be distorted/bowed a bit to have the proper viewpoint.

 

yes this is true and missing. I don't seem sensative to this but it is not corrected in stereo right now without nthusim. That is missing, i don't mind it but can see how most might.

[maddabboyahoo.com]

Not exactly that. He is referring to a mouse cursor that lives in the 3D world instead of the 2D screen space and when you move the cursor it moves inside the cockpit, not the screen.

 

I tried to emulate that idea controlling the mouse position with glovepie some time ago, but it was difficult to make it work accurately, and I was unable to find the maths to include the translation of the eyepoint, so only orientation was took into consideration. Still it was a lot easier to interact with the cockpit this way. I called it "panoramic mouse".

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=66500

 

I didn't include any "mouse dragging" because it was more intuitive knowing that the cursor will be wherever you left it. If you have to interact repeatedly with the same area of the cockpit you know the cursor will be there independently of where you look at between interactions. And when you want to move it from the left console to the right, you just keep moving the mouse until it appears on your view. But I use a trackball that makes those long cursor runs easier. I understand that with a regular mouse it can be a hassle.

 

I think this is a fantastic idea. I'd love to see it projected onto the cockpit mesh and left there. I'd like to to translate in screen space x-y but to stabilize and project onto the cockpit if this makes sense.