Announcing Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3

[159th_Viper]

/Thread cleaned up.

 

Kindly watch the tone of your posts, Gentlemen. Address the topic and not the person and let the moderation staff deal with rule infringements.

[NRG-Vampire]

Once again another person that doesn't know and understand about the F-15. Look at the kill/death ratio of the F-15 and compare that to the 27, 29 and 33 with their SARH missiles, not hard to figure out who will win.

 

im watching and following you Cali :suspect: :D

^ thats why we need to add R-77, R-27AE, R-37 for Su 27/33, MiG-29S :imxo:

[TuAFScythe]

Dude, you watch CNN to much, listen.... R-27R have 6 times bigger distance for "pusk" then in your "realistic" 2.0 (according to Russian real pilots) its totally useless and R-27ER with breaking lock on simple little move, EOS and ET missile are humiliated, not to mention ECM start-up bulls*** for 15 sec which is pure fairytale brought in 2.0 just to take out a tool to confront F 15 (in real initialy is needed about 1 minute, which you can do during take off, far away from combat for warm up, and later is ONLY!!! 1 second needed) I think real pilots know more then ED and some so-called experts on this forum.

 

So, dont twist my words here, when i said BALANCE I meant about just 1 or some adventages of Russian planes taken in 2.0 after 1.12, coz theres not any anymore. Another thing... before this 2.0 crap i had more then 600 flying hours every year in Lock On on public servers only, not counting squad trainings, etc, so dont even dare to preach me with some cheap frases here. Don't ever dare to say word "reality" if F 15 need 8 missiles (we call that in squadron un-installing) to shut down in smoke and flames which still heading to us and lunch missiles, dont even dare to preach while AIM 120 dodged turn 180 degrees and start to chase us without losing power and speed from behind, dont even dare to post that again until AIM 120 go around hills and continue chase us even dont have us locked and visual. 2.0 was a bad dream and last time i hope that nightmare will stop, so we all could have fun finally. You dude get SU 27 with SARH and come 1 vs 1 and you will see how much skills you have, I am really tired to listen hit and run aces here.

 

I lose my interests in LO when i saw fresh noobs which pay for 2.0 30$ entering server and shoot down expirienced guys which fly 6+ years. Thats sad story about LO, so here is not about improvements, here is all about money. I red all 80+ pages of this thread, and all i got to say is: I wont pay 0.99$ until i see something really changed on humiliated Russian planes and missiles. ED played on card for "western" users where money is, but they forget a fact theres lots of guys there love to fly Russian birds, and to have real opponent not junk aircrafts without any chance to confront. It's not about money, it's about respect of community and ppl which dedicated lots of time for years individualy or in squadrons for LO.

 

blackG over and out, dont have anything to say more

 

This man has a point, exaggerated but true for some aspects. Real life Su-27 and R-27R-ER-T-ET probably worse than we know and only thing we have against F-15s is Mig-29 with cucumber like radar, low ferry range and low payload(Damn even she doesnt have the ability of tracking 2 targets simultaneously). As for Su-33, a cheap imitation of Su-27 and playing with these planes become like bed fantasies. But, hey dont worry Flanker and Fulcrum lovers we can still get drop on them with creeping between mountains, except if they didn't add ground penetrating, AESA radar for F-15C :)

[Grimes]

Sorta wish MP would go to a natural unbalance with Flankers and Fulcrums on Red with more aircraft and F-15 on blue with fewer aircraft.

[FLANKERATOR]

@BlackG : There is a bunch of bugs for sure, not only for Russian Fighters, F-15 also got some issues. We all eagerly wait for FC3 as it is supposed to address those issues. But in my opinion, attitude is even more important, quitting is easy, many dedicated Russian Fighters drivers rose up to the challenge and managed outstanding achievements : ask Presing, Frostie, volk, Zart Arn to name a few.

[Case]

Sorta wish MP would go to a natural unbalance with Flankers and Fulcrums on Red with more aircraft and F-15 on blue with fewer aircraft.

 

I wish MP would work like that, but it doesn't. As soon as a mission with less F-15's comes up people that can't get a slot leave or start a missionvote for a mission that has more Eagle's.

 

Furthermore, very few people fly for the goals of their side, only for their own goals. You know how people fly, we've discussed this at length in the closing days before FC2 was released.

 

To try and mitigate the unbalance the F-15 brings to FC2 we are running missions with EWR on red and an 80's mission. Both seem more popular compared to the missio. With fewer Eagles.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Case

[VAOZoky]

Any info about ECM?

[SNAFU]

I wish MP would work like that, but it doesn't. As soon as a mission with less F-15's comes up people that can't get a slot leave or start a missionvote for a mission that has more Eagle's.

 

Furthermore, very few people fly for the goals of their side, only for their own goals. You know how people fly, we've discussed this at length in the closing days before FC2 was released.

 

To try and mitigate the unbalance the F-15 brings to FC2 we are running missions with EWR on red and an 80's mission. Both seem more popular compared to the missio. With fewer Eagles.

 

That`s why I miss the <51th> server in DCS:World. :thumbup: Looking forward for FC3 and hoping your server will be available to DCS players again, can´t find a better public online-DCS experience. :joystick:

 

PS: I experienced the same behavior in other communities building Server-Maps/Missions for IL2. Most prefered maps, where usually the most unrealistic or easiest ones, in which you do not have any kind of challange. Guess that`s human being. ;)

Edited September 7, 2012 by SNAFU

[Milene]

BTW will the Vikhrs be fixed for world with the integration of FC3?

[159th_Viper]

BTW will the Vikhrs be fixed for world with the integration of FC3?

 

Already fixed - will be incorporated into next World patch.

[Exorcet]

This man has a point, exaggerated but true for some aspects. Real life Su-27 and R-27R-ER-T-ET probably worse than we know and only thing we have against F-15s is Mig-29 with cucumber like radar, low ferry range and low payload(Damn even she doesnt have the ability of tracking 2 targets simultaneously). As for Su-33, a cheap imitation of Su-27 and playing with these planes become like bed fantasies. But, hey dont worry Flanker and Fulcrum lovers we can still get drop on them with creeping between mountains, except if they didn't add ground penetrating, AESA radar for F-15C

The Russian planes have radar data link, which is a pretty strong feature. No doubt when it comes to 1 v 1, the F-15 is the strongest, at least when the fight starts BVR, but it's very easy to avoid situations where the Eagle dominates.

 

Sorta wish MP would go to a natural unbalance with Flankers and Fulcrums on Red with more aircraft and F-15 on blue with fewer aircraft.

 

It can be about more than just numbers. Seeing the current map, Blue offense, Red defense makes sense. Flankers should have a large SAM advantage compared to Eagles, and then there are things like EWR. And even further.

 

I wish MP would work like that, but it doesn't. As soon as a mission with less F-15's comes up people that can't get a slot leave or start a missionvote for a mission that has more Eagle's.

 

Furthermore, very few people fly for the goals of their side, only for their own goals. You know how people fly, we've discussed this at length in the closing days before FC2 was released.

 

To try and mitigate the unbalance the F-15 brings to FC2 we are running missions with EWR on red and an 80's mission. Both seem more popular compared to the missio. With fewer Eagles.

Exactly, and this asymmetry is both realistic and fun. This is why I'm on the 51st server 95% of the time (along with kill messages off).

 

If all of that fails, there is always the R-77 mod.

 

PS: I experienced the same behavior in other communities building Server-Maps/Missions for IL2. Most prefered maps, where usually the most unrealistic or easiest ones, in which you do not have any kind of challange. Guess that`s human being.

 

It's probably more about flying your favorite plane than it has to do with realism or difficulty. Eagle pilots don't stop flying Eagles when 80's missions run, even though the Flanker gains large advantages in that situation. This is another reason why creating asymmetric combat situations is probably better than working via numbers. Also, the US would probably not be short on Eagles in a conflict anyway.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Exorcet

[TuAFScythe]

The Russian planes have radar data link, which is a pretty strong feature. No doubt when it comes to 1 v 1, the F-15 is the strongest, at least when the fight starts BVR, but it's very easy to avoid situations where the Eagle dominates.

 

Data link is only Awacs and EW sided it is only mission based. To be preceise I dont want to face an eagle in a relatively flat region with long ranges. It is like facing AI in SERIOUS difficulty.

[Teknetinium]

Since Er-27 is faster then aim-120 it should balance out the 1vs1 fight. Could someone count on how much you gain in time by the fact that Er-27 is faster, if the aircraft's lunch at same time, alt and speed.

There is no prove on how good ERs or aim-120s track. Would be more interesting if aim-120 in active state (guided by missiles radar) would not be that effective. I believe that is not fear since there is no proof that the aim-120 radar is as good as F-15s, even at 10km range when effected by ground clutter+ chaff and jamming, FC2 F-15 pilots trust the aim-120 to much when it goes in active state, witch I don't blame them fore because the missile dose great job in FC2. I believe something could be done to aim-120 performance to make the missile appear more realistic as Er-27 and ET is today :)

Edited September 7, 2012 by Teknetinium

[Milene]

Already fixed - will be incorporated into next World patch.

 

Thx, this patch arrives with the release of FC3?

[159th_Viper]

Thx, this patch arrives with the release of FC3?

 

Maybe, maybe not. One is not dependant on the other so I really do not know. We'll have to wait and see :)

[Milene]

Well have you been testing the Su25T in FC3? Vikhrs worked fine or did they hug the ground?

[104th_Crunch]

... when i said BALANCE I meant about just 1 or some adventages of Russian planes taken in 2.0 after 1.12...

 

Some things could/need be updated for the Su/MiGs as well as the F-15. ED had to make decisions on what to prioritize their time on, and it is known that the F-15 is popular aircraft. There is no denying this. I am sure ED know this, but they have to make decisions on what to spend time on. I wish every plane had their missing features.

 

I don't think there will ever be in FC all the missing things from each fighter. We will not get all the missing features until there is DCS:Su-27 and DCS:F-15 etc. FC3 in my mind is still a great idea for 1 reason, to get everyone in DCS and FC and the same freakin servers! I hope that there are no more updates to FC (except for maybe bug fixes if needed) and we see an Eastern and Western DCS fighter from ED ASAP. Either way I am sure things will only get better from here on out.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Crunch

[159th_Viper]

Well have you been testing the Su25T in FC3? Vikhrs worked fine or did they hug the ground?

 

SU25T is specific to world and not FC3.

[GGTharos]

Since Er-27 is faster then aim-120 it should balance out the 1vs1 fight. Could someone count on how much you gain in time by the fact that Er-27 is faster, if the aircraft's lunch at same time, alt and speed.

 

That depends on the distance you launch at. If you're at 20km then the difference isn't necessarily very useful, but the devil is in the details.

 

There is no prove on how good ERs or aim-120s track. Would be more interesting if aim-120 in active state (guided by missiles radar) would not be that effective.

 

... so SARH should be made even less effective than now, then? After all, the 120 is historically the most effective radar guided A2A missile in the DCSW stable. According to Case's stats, the AIM-120 has about 30% Pk online. That's pretty low.

 

I believe that is not fear since there is no proof that the aim-120 radar is as good as F-15s, even at 10km range when effected by ground clutter+ chaff and jamming, FC2 F-15 pilots trust the aim-120 to much when it goes in active state, witch I don't blame them fore because the missile dose great job in FC2. I believe something could be done to aim-120 performance to make the missile appear more realistic as Er-27 and ET is today :)

 

It's even scarier in RL than it is in-game. It should actually be made better in many respects, not worse as you want to claim.

[Slamelov]

Let's see...

 

I have Flanker series, Lock On, FC1, FC2 and all the DCS series, included Combined Arms prepurchase.

 

So, ED is going to release a new F15 cockpit for $40 and DCS integration?. I can't understand.

 

Don't you think that is too much for an addon?. I would buy it for sure with more features, for example, new flight model, new cockpits for all planes, new planes... but for this?. Come on, ED, that's not fair.

 

Strange moves from ED. Probably I'm too stupid for understand it.

 

Regards.

[Milene]

SU25T is specific to world and not FC3.

 

I dont understand let me quote :

 

"Announcing Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3

Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 (FC3) is the next evolution of the Flaming Cliffs series. FC3 features the F-15C, A-10A, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-29A, MiG-29S, Su-25T, and Su-25. FC3 aircraft provide an easy learning curve for new players and focuses on a broad range of aircraft rather than a detailed single aircraft. FC3 adds a number of new features and improvements to previous versions of the Flaming Cliffs series. FC3 is a module of DCS: World, which makes it compatible with all other DCS: World titles like A-10C, Black Shark 2, P-51D, and Combined Arms."

 

It says Su25T doesnt it? So the Vikhrs is part of FC3 aswell as World. World ones are different from FC3 or not? Confused here

[Vecko]

... and we see an Eastern and Western DCS fighter from ED ASAP. Either way I am sure things will only get beeter from here on out.

 

Big Crunch...The born optimist and one of the most positive persons in lockon community...:)

Unfortenately , i can not share your optimism this time...

[159th_Viper]

 

It says Su25T doesnt it? So the Vikhrs is part of FC3 aswell as World. World ones are different from FC3 or not? Confused here

 

You are not getting two SU-25T's. It's a typo - you already have the SU-25T in DCS World. Why would you want another one?

[104th_Cobra]

So, ED is going to release a new F15 cockpit for $40 and DCS integration?. I can't understand.

Don't you think that is too much for an addon?. I would buy it for sure with more features, for example, new flight model, new cockpits for all planes, new planes... but for this?. Come on, ED, that's not fair.

 

This 40 bucks are paying the AFM developing for aerial weaponry, the resources manager and some airplane systems improvements. Also, it pays the F-15C cockpit and the implementation of the FC2 airplanes, including the review of SFM parameters values and landing/takeoff handling. This will improve the BVR tactics use (mainly) and mission design effect on gameplay.

 

FC3, at the same time, is work done in the DCS fighter direction. I'm understanding that it remains to be done the work in sensors and weapons fusing models. Even if I'd love to see the Russian cockpits improvement, I understand that this and the former new features are impossible to implement with the actual timetable and budget.

 

All at it's time.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Xpto

[Renato71]

BTW will the Vikhrs be fixed for world with the integration of FC3?

 

Not being a customer of DSCW, don't mind if I ask, what was wrong with Vikhrs?