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Ракеты в DCS


Chizh

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11 часов назад, Chizh сказал:

Гамбургер это питательные вещества, необходимые для жизни. А водка - простой яд который ведет к слабоумию.

Так что не нужно грязи. ))

 

Оффтоп, поэтому под спойлер.

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Чего? Питательные вещества? Ну ты же способен про это сам почитать.

Про пищевую полезность твоего любимого https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/doesntwork/2900505.html

Еще немного в целом про фастфуд от роспотреба.

И ты сам что то путаешь. Есть и пить можно (и даже нужно) всего понемногу. Но в отличие от водки (вода и спирт), гамбургер сам по себе как продукт из множества веществ сделан не совместимым для пищеварения и весьма калорийным. Вес набрать от водки не получится, от гамбургера запросто. А злоупотребление любым алкоголем и любыми гамбургерами это в принципе злоупотребление, там уже продукт играет второстепенную роль. Упороться можно любым продуктом. Так что не нужно подмешивать понятия.

А противникам алкоголя рекомендую почитать научную литературу на тему пищеварения человека. Особенно про механизм того, каким образом ЖКТ сообщает мозгу, что он поел. Вот уж удивитесь. ))))))

 

MB: MPG-Z390 GP / i7 9700KF 4,8 ГГц / DDR4 64 Gb 3466 МГц / GTX 2080Super / Acer 43" ET430KWMIIQPPX 4k / Win 10

 

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4 часа назад, nighthawk2174 сказал:

@Chizhany plans on improving proximity fuzzes (especially in mp where their practically non-existent) for the improved missile API?  

Yes. We have a plan for improving proximity fuse system.

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Единственный урок, который можно извлечь из истории, состоит в том, что люди не извлекают из истории никаких уроков. (С) Джордж Бернард Шоу

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6 часов назад, nighthawk2174 сказал:

Well I mean in the timeframe of DCS it certaintly is and even now the 120D is probably still a worthy opponent to the meteor.  

 

Мы этого знать не можем от слова совсем. Даже более того, нам не узнать лучше ли 120D, чем Р-77-1: надёжных данных для сравнения нет

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2 hours ago, TotenDead said:

 

We cannot know this from the word at all. Moreover, we do not know if the 120D is better than the R-77-1: there is no reliable data for comparison

The 77-1 still has the grid fins right?  So its probably still very similar in performance to the adder we have in game.  And considering the 120D has better range than even the C7 and a two way datalink (meaning it can get target position updates from the L16 network) its not exactly a question if it is better it just is and probably by a significant margin.

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3 часа назад, TotenDead сказал:

 

Мы этого знать не можем от слова совсем. Даже более того, нам не узнать лучше ли 120D, чем Р-77-1: надёжных данных для сравнения нет

Это у вас нет. Не надо говорить за всех.

Единственный урок, который можно извлечь из истории, состоит в том, что люди не извлекают из истории никаких уроков. (С) Джордж Бернард Шоу

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On 7/24/2021 at 11:52 AM, Chizh said:

This is recorded in the Wishlist, but it requires a big overhauling of all radio-emitting devices and receivers.
In the future, when there is time, we will model the side lobes, but not now.

Just a follow up question on RWRs, sorry if it is off topic. 

Shouldn't Noise Jammers also interfere with RWRs, screaming full noise Jammer on must saturate RWRs also and probably mask missile launches or going actives. 


Edited by FoxAlfa

-------

All the people keep asking for capabilities to be modelled.... I want the limitations to be modelled.... limitations make for realistic simulation.

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, after a bit you realize the pig likes it.

 

Long time ago in galaxy far far away:

https://www.deviantart.com/alfafox/gallery

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2 часа назад, nighthawk2174 сказал:

The 77-1 still has the grid fins right?  So its probably still very similar in performance to the adder we have in game.  And considering the 120D has better range than even the C7 and a two way datalink (meaning it can get target position updates from the L16 network) its not exactly a question if it is better it just is and probably by a significant margin.

Вы считаете, что решетчатые рули тормозят р77-1, так что она за 20км никого догнать не может? если смотреть ее в нашем симуляторе?

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7 hours ago, TotenDead said:

 

We cannot know this from the word at all. Moreover, we do not know if the 120D is better than the R-77-1: there is no reliable data for comparison

 

There is, but you will have to dig much deeper (by yourself, I don't care to do it for you 🙂 ) than 'missile stats'.   The state of manufacturing capability will tell you a bunch of things, but you have to have some understanding of the underlying technology.  It's still an estimate, but it's an educated one.

1 hour ago, Hoarfrost said:

Do you think that lattice rudders slow down the p77-1, so that it cannot catch up with anyone for 20 km? if you watch it in our simulator?

 

I don't think so, his point was that the R-77 and R-77-1 will have similar aerodynamic performance.   One problem is that we don't know the fuel fraction or thrust or burn time or configuration of the R-77-1 rocket motor.   As well, power to the fins can be increased to produce more g.

 

Lattice fins have advantages and disadvantages, for the R-77 IMHO the main disadvantage is its rocket motor, not the fins.   The R-77-1 very likely corrects this, and of course there are other upgrades on top this in the electronics and other equipment.

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1 hour ago, FoxAlfa said:

Just a follow up question on RWRs, sorry if it is off topic. 

Shouldn't Noise Jammers also interfere with RWRs, screaming full noise Jammer on must saturate RWRs also and probably mask missile launches or going actives. 

 

 

If a fighter radar won't saturate your RWR, the piddly little fighter-mounted noise jammer won't do it either.   Dedicated offensive jammers, maybe.

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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35 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

 

If a fighter radar won't saturate your RWR, the piddly little fighter-mounted noise jammer won't do it either. Dedicated offensive jammers, maybe.

I can't imagine Wingman blasting a Noise jammer close doing wonders for RWR sensitivity, but the initial idea is there, noise jammers having impact on RWR.


Edited by FoxAlfa

-------

All the people keep asking for capabilities to be modelled.... I want the limitations to be modelled.... limitations make for realistic simulation.

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, after a bit you realize the pig likes it.

 

Long time ago in galaxy far far away:

https://www.deviantart.com/alfafox/gallery

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6 hours ago, nighthawk2174 said:

The 77-1 still has the grid fins right?  So its probably still very similar in performance to the adder we have in game.  And considering the 120D has better range than even the C7 and a two way datalink (meaning it can get target position updates from the L16 network) its not exactly a question if it is better it just is and probably by a significant margin.

 

So you think the real R-77-1 will not loft too?

 

Main drawback of the R-77 in DCS is the lack of loft. With loft it would be alot more usefull.

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7 минут назад, BlackPixxel сказал:

 

Main drawback of the R-77 in DCS is the lack of loft. With loft it would be alot more usefull.

Does loft without TWS launch make sense? When launched in STT, target get launch warning and has a lot of time to simply run away.

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2 hours ago, FoxAlfa said:

I can't imagine Wingman blasting a Noise jammer close doing wonders for RWR sensitivity, but the initial idea is there, noise jammers having impact on RWR.

 

 

Can you imagine what he would do blasting his radar, which is several times more powerful?

58 minutes ago, Zhivuchiy said:

Does loft without TWS launch make sense? When launched in STT, target get launch warning and has a lot of time to simply run away.

 

Always.  The whole not wanting to give a warning thing is a very gamey approach, IRL you don't care so much.   Yes, it's nice for the weapon to be stealth but no such things exists right now (even IR missiles can be detected, at least visually) and IRL tactics aren't built around 'not giving warning'.

1 hour ago, BlackPixxel said:

So you think the real R-77-1 will not loft too?

 

Main drawback of the R-77 in DCS is the lack of loft. With loft it would be alot more usefull.

 

You guys need to stop misinterpreting what he said.  He clearly means the lift/drag coefficients.

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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1 minute ago, BlackPixxel said:

 

So you think the real R-77-1 will not loft too?

 

Main drawback of the R-77 in DCS is the lack of loft. With loft it would be alot more usefull.

  No it probably does, however even with the loft the 77 we have in game will still have a bit less range than the 120B.  I have gone into BMS and copied the current drag and motor characteristics onto its missiles (you can too).  And the 120B has slightly more range, the 77 gets a bit faster but it is also a bigger missile that is only fractionally heavier than the amraam, and has worse drag characteristics, especially in the transonic region.

3 hours ago, Hoarfrost said:

Do you think that lattice rudders slow down the p77-1, so it can't catch up with anyone for 20 km? if you watch it in our simulator?

Basically what GG said, its likely they will have similar aerodynamic properties.  Its a larger bodied missile with a higher value drag coefficient curve across its speed range, especially in the transonic region, compared to the 120's.   If the motor is not a dramatic improvement over that of the adder we have in game I just don't see it competing at all with the 120C7/120D.  And considering that the 77-1 is only 15kg heavier (not all of that is going to be rocket fuel) I don't think it is that dramatic improvement.   Maybe not even with the C5 if the motor is only a slight improvement over the original adder.    It kind of depends on the missile.  

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7 часов назад, nighthawk2174 сказал:

   

Да это было бы очень хорошо, если р77 в DCS летала чуть меньше по дальности чем 120B, но быстрее ее на начальных этапах, и маневрировала лучше.

А так ли значительна разница  в 10мм по радиусу - для р77-1, чтобы  лобовое сопротивления, особенно в околозвуковой области тормозила на столько много километров р77-1 по сравнению с новым амрам?

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You are only considering ballistics here. But the main limitations of the 77 are in the guidance system.

Единственный урок, который можно извлечь из истории, состоит в том, что люди не извлекают из истории никаких уроков. (С) Джордж Бернард Шоу

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1 hour ago, Hoarfrost said:

Yes, it would be very good if the p77 in DCS flew a little less in range than 120B, but faster in the initial stages, and maneuvered better.

And is the difference of 10mm in radius so significant - for the p77-1, so that the frontal resistance, especially in the transonic region, slows down the p77-1 by so many kilometers in comparison with the new amram?

It is a direct increase in the drag force ontop of the already worse drag characteristics, plus this is in terms of frontal area which includes the grid fins.  And remember this difference is cumulative the drag force is constantly acting on the missile during its flight and even small increases build up especially at longer ranges.

53 minutes ago, Chizh said:

You are only considering ballistics here. But the main limitations of the 77 are in the guidance system.

Yes we are, in your view though how is the R77's guidance system the major limiting factor here.  I don't know much about the R77's guidance system as there really isn't anything i've found especially in English.      

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21 час назад, nighthawk2174 сказал:

The 77-1 still has the grid fins right?  So its probably still very similar in performance to the adder we have in game.  And considering the 120D has better range than even the C7 and a two way datalink (meaning it can get target position updates from the L16 network) its not exactly a question if it is better it just is and probably by a significant margin.

And 120D still has conventional fins? So its probably very similar in performance to the AMRAAM we have in game. Sorry about that, but just try to understand how that fin guestimation sounds. 

 

R-77-1 is claimed to be somewhat larger than Rvv-ae. What's more, you have no way of knowing if 77-1 has the same datalink or not, but what we surely know is that 120D has the same size as 120C7 and because of that 50% range increase sounds like total bullshed

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4 hours ago, Chizh said:

You are only considering ballistics here. But the main limitations of the 77 are in the guidance system.

 

All I can find is that the radio correction signal, when it is coming from a MiG-29, has a range of 50 km to the R-77. So at the moment the R-77 activates its own seeker (range of about 15 km against fighters), it can be 50 km away from the MiG-29. Which is massive and not a limitation at all.

Especially when considering that the range of the radio correction signal for the R-27 is only given with 25 km from the launch aircraft.


Edited by BlackPixxel
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3 hours ago, TotenDead said:

And 120D still has conventional fins? So its probably very similar in performance to the AMRAAM we have in game. Sorry about that, but just try to understand how that fin guestimation sounds. 

 

The airframe will perform the same way as a 120C.   

 

3 hours ago, TotenDead said:

R-77-1 is claimed to be somewhat larger than Rvv-ae. What's more, you have no way of knowing if 77-1 has the same datalink or not, but what we surely know is that 120D has the same size as 120C7 and because of that 50% range increase sounds like total bullshed

 

No, it's probably a capability increase.   The airframe is probably capable of 'doing better' but whatever else is there wasn't - and it could be anything, datalink, IMU, power supply.  Really anything.  As well, perhaps the 50% range increase is all about an F-22 chucking the missile at M1.7 from 50000' ... who knows?

 

AIM-120D was intended to receive a larger motor as well, but it never did.


Edited by GGTharos

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I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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5 часов назад, Hoarfrost сказал:

а у нашей 77-й в итоге Лофт будет в DCS?

А есть данные (в открытом доступе) которые это подтверждают?


Edited by Zhivuchiy
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3 часа назад, Zhivuchiy сказал:

А есть данные (в открытом доступе) которые это подтверждают?

 

от кого именно в открытом доступе должны быть эти данные, чтобы лофт был? В чем сомнения - что у р77 нет лофта? У какой именно р77, у dcs-ой, у нее вообще может по мнению разрабов много чего не быть? Или экспортной 77-й?  по 120-й могут просто в грудь ударить(ну не совсем конечно в грудь, по испытаниям она такая и точка) и она будет лучше на 20 процентов графиков, феникс это как автор видит, 16-й может с баками увешенный  летать как раптор, но вот все советские ракеты, самолеты - будут вымерены досконально с фетишом моделиста, не дай бог за график какой выйдет. разогнался в график, летела в график, маневрировал в график ... а у синих че, фиг с ним какие ттх главное кнопочки чтоб нажать можно было) лет за 5-10 если уж какие то красные сильно вопить будут, исправим если время будет свободное, от зарабатывания денег. Бизнес. есть бизнес. Тогда не пойму смысл форума, что то переубедить 1000 постов, и то не всегда - в итоге можно услышать -"мы так видим" - И на это создатели конечно имеют полное право.  Просто пописать здесь. Смысл версии игры не бэты, если сервера на бэте. Какая разница как у меня летит ракета против бота. А по мнению разрабов должно наоборот, но в итоге 104 сервер банит за РЭБ. Тогда пусть DCS сделает свои сервера онлайн если для них это важно:

-ближе всего доработанный() по ттх(реалестичный) - сюда су 27 с натяжкой по тяге и даталинку, р27эр и с натяжкой ф18 (не знаю что у его сейчас по дальности), и с натяжкой ф-15 (не знаю что у него сейчас по разрушаемости и радару) с аим - 7, аим -120b.

-и дорабатываемый  - все остальные ла. 

Где будет больше игроков? Тогда делайте оружие одновременно, и у сторонних отнять их оружие пока не пройдут продувки у вас. Хотя бы для онлайна не важно бэта или нет. 

Иначе появления все новых компаний со своим виденьем вооружения и ттх, уберет онлайн напрочь , останется только сим моделей. 

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1 час назад, Hoarfrost сказал:

16-й может с баками увешенный  летать как раптор

16-й с баками набирает высоту со скоростью восходящей в гору клячи и, при этом, топливо из этих самых баков жрёт как алкаш водяру. На высотах свыше 40 000, при полной (или почти полной) загрузке, его без форсажа фиг удержать. Раптор тоже так летает?

 

Не могу понять, почему "синие" самолёты и AIM-120 в DCS воспринимаются какой-то "имбой". Да, у них много преимуществ, но и недостатки тоже есть. В дальнем бою они (особенно Томкэт с Фениксом) конечно очень крутые, но в ближнем (особенно тот же Томкэт) - это просто мишени. Плюс, без АВАКСа на "синих" самолётах в бою вообще делать нечего. А самый большой недостаток "красных", лично для меня, - это некликабельность. Из-за этого (только из-за этого) я на "красных" и не летаю.

ПОЗОР ВОЕННЫМ ПРЕСТУПНИКАМ!!! ПОЗОР "АРМИИ" ДЕТОУБИЙЦ!!! ПОЗОР ТРУСАМ, СПОСОБНЫМ ВОЕВАТЬ ТОЛЬКО С МИРНЫМ НАСЕЛЕНИЕМ!!!

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