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Military and Aviation News Thread (NO DISCUSSION)


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The deployment costs have been hotly debated pretty much everywhere.
Debated? by who? People that seemingly don't like the fighter? (which is alot by the way).

 

We can sit here and argue all day. Look at the B-2 costs.. they require fricking special hangers.. and there's only 20+ of them. Yet, they still have flown in numerous missions... Syria, Bosnia... Gulf war 1 & 2.

 

GG is right, if the mission doesn't call for the damn aircraft, why would you use it?

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http://www.stripes.com/mobile/news/critics-wonder-could-the-f-22-s-skin-be-the-problem-1.178674

 

By HUGH LESSIG

Daily Press, Newport News, Va.

Published: May 27, 2012

The Air Force says its F-22 Raptor brings something to the battle that no other U.S. jet fighter can match: Its ability to evade radar through stealth technology.

 

But now critics are offering up a troubling hypothesis: Could the very materials that make the Raptor stealthy be contributing to problems of dizziness and disorientation that some pilots have experienced in the cockpit?

 

Air Force investigators are looking into the possibility that toxic substances are infiltrating the pilot's air supply. That's one of their main theories. The other is that pilots are simply not getting enough oxygen.

 

Pierre Sprey, who was heavily involved in the design of the F-16 fighter and has been critical of the F-22, noted many possible sources for toxic fumes on a jet like the Raptor, such as hydraulic fluid or overheated plastics.

 

His belief that stealth coatings play a role is based on anecdotes that seem unique to the F-22 — the so-called "Raptor cough" and feelings of disorientation that persist well after a mission ends. He recently outlined his views in an article co-authored with Dina Rasor, an investigator and author who founded the Bauman and Rasor Group, which helps whistleblowers file lawsuits under federal law.

 

Sprey said if those symptoms are unique to Raptor pilots, perhaps it's connected to what is unique about the Raptor itself: The stealth material, which contains layers bonded together with noxious adhesives.

 

It is a "very, very serious problem if materials in the Raptor skin are generating vapors at levels high enough to cause a pilot to feel dizzy, he said.

 

"By the time it gets high enough to give you something like hypoxia, you've really had a snootful," he said.

 

Sen. Mark R. Warner has heard from several Raptor pilots and Air Force flight surgeons who have confided their concerns about the fighter. The idea that the stealth coatings could be source of toxins is one of the theories coming "from credible people," said Warner spokesman Kevin Hall.

 

No evidence

 

The Air Force says there is no clinical evidence that the Raptor is making pilots sick, and it has other explanations for the persistent cough and disorientation that, in a few cases, lasts beyond the end of the mission.

 

Meanwhile, it continues to investigate 11 unexplained incidents of hypoxia that have occurred since September, when the aircraft returned to the skies after a four-month stand-down. Earlier hypoxia incidents had prompted the stand-down, and the Air Force lifted it without determining the root cause of the problem, although it enacted additional safety measures and vowed to monitor the condition of pilots.

 

Investigators now believe that the 11 incidents might be caused by several factors that could be interconnected in some way, according to Brig Gen. Daniel Wyman, the Air Combat Command surgeon general.

 

"It may be part of their operating environment," he recently told reporters. "It may be part of the systems we have in place in the aircraft to protect them. It may be part of some potential contaminant. It may be all of those. We continue to look at that. But the manifestations are all physiologic."

 

Raptor cough

 

F-22 pilots breathe in high concentrations of oxygen while experiencing high G forces during flight. It prevents them from passing out during intense pressure that literally multiplies their body weight. Inhaling oxygen-rich air can cause "micro-collapse" of smaller air sacs in the lungs, and coughing is a natural response to re-inflate them, Wyman said.

 

Wyman said the cough occurs more frequently in F-22 pilots than in the earlier F-15s or F-16s. Many F-22 pilots used to fly those older jets, so they have some basis for comparison. The cough may relate to the expanded capabilities of the Raptor.

 

"The flight envelope of the F-22 is significantly different than the other fighters," he said, "and this may contribute to this cough, but we are continuing to evaluate it with our pilots."

 

Lingering symptoms

 

The problems of the Raptor made national headlines earlier this month when two Virginia Air National Guard pilots went on "60 Minutes" and said they were uncomfortable flying the aircraft. Capt. Josh Wilson mentioned that he not only experienced a hypoxia scare in the cockpit, but later underwent therapy in a hyperbaric chamber as his problems persisted.

 

Hyperbaric therapy, Wyman said, is the delivery of 100 percent oxygen under pressure, used to treat hypoxia, carbon monoxide poisoning, decompression sickness and even helping wounds that are slow to heal.

 

In most cases, the hypoxia symptoms in Raptor cockpits have gone way when the pilot activated the emergency oxygen system in the cockpit, Wyman said. Sometimes the pilots land and immediately breathe pure oxygen to resolve them.

 

"In a very few cases," the symptoms last until the next morning, Wyman said. In two cases, hyperbaric treatments were used and the symptoms were cleared up, he said.

 

The bottom line: Investigators don't have a definitive explanation for these symptoms, nor have they found convincing evidence linking these symptoms to the extended presence of toxins.

 

OBOGS

 

So far, a good deal of attention has focused on the Raptor's on-board oxygen generation system, or OBOGS. The system takes air from the engine and runs it through a high-tech sieve, so the pilot breathes a higher concentration of oxygen.

 

Winslow Wheeler directs the Center for Defense Information, now part of the Project on Government Oversight. He notes that some airmen who work to maintain the F-22 have also experienced hypoxia incidents. They weren't breathing air in the cockpit, and that seems to point away from the OBOGS system.

 

"It's very possible there is some sort of toxin or contamination problem," he said. "The fact that the ground crew have had some events and pilots have reported vertigo or dizziness well after the flight – it's evidence that this is just not an oxygen-deprivation problem."

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One of the studies mentioned that F-22s were even less likely to be deployed to a warzone than B-2s.

 

http://nation.time.com/2011/04/17/the-strange-case-of-the-nearby-but-missing-f-22s-over-libya/

A quote, from your own article :
The F-22 is a “niche, silver-bullet solution for one or two potential scenarios, specifically the defeat of a highly advanced enemy fighter fleet,” Gates said in 2009 when he was fighting to slay the F-22 dragon over strong Air Force opposition. “The F-22, to be blunt, does not make much sense any place else in the spectrum of conflict.”
This explains it, no costs in maintenance or any of that crappy excuses made up. The fighter is simply not needed in these current times.. However that doesn't mean it WON'T be needed in the future.

 

Anyways, i'm done here. This is a news thread! we can discuss this elsewhere.

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Not to war zones it would seem.

 

I have a friend that works on F-22 and he told me why they didn't go to Syria. They were just deployed for a number of months. Although not in a war zone, but they were deployed. Also, they don't deploy as close as you may think. Their sorties last for hours, which consist for multi AAR's.

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A quote, from your own article : This explains it, no costs in maintenance or any of that crappy excuses made up. The fighter is simply not needed in these current times.. However that doesn't mean it WON'T be needed in the future.

 

Anyways, i'm done here. This is a news thread! we can discuss this elsewhere.

Well the B-2 isn't really needed and there are only 20ish of them, yet it's still used.

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F-16 Crash in California

 

Action News has learned a Fresno-based California Air National Guard F-16 crashed during a training flight over Owens Valley.

 

 

It happened around 3:30 Wednesday afternoon in Inyo County east of the Sierra Nevada.

 

The Air National Guard says the pilot was able to eject safely.

The F-16 Fighting Falcon that went down came from the 144th Fighter Wing in Fresno.

 

Link: http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=8933999

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Action News has learned a Fresno-based California Air National Guard F-16 crashed during a training flight over Owens Valley.

 

 

It happened around 3:30 Wednesday afternoon in Inyo County east of the Sierra Nevada.

 

The Air National Guard says the pilot was able to eject safely.

The F-16 Fighting Falcon that went down came from the 144th Fighter Wing in Fresno.

Link: http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=8933999

 

That's my home town! I worked and a Winery on the approach path and use to love watching the F-16's come in to land. I have a friend that is working there now, need to facebook him and see what's up.

i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED

 

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Is that slang for hitting him in the face with a book? :D

 

Lmao Kuky, guess I should have said I need to message him on facebook.

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The New Year´s message from the Commander of the 188th Wing, ANG Arkansas :

 

188th members and families,

 

As we conclude 2012 and go forward to 2013, I’d like to take this opportunity to thank you for your outstanding service to the Wing, your community and the nation. We greatly appreciate everything you do.

 

The year 2012 was full of challenges but you excelled in every one of them. You represented us well with deployments throughout the world. In addition, your work at home station was first-rate and the unit is stronger for all that you have done.

 

The year 2013 will bring more challenges as well as opportunities; some we aren’t even aware of yet. In May we will receive the largest compliance inspection in the history of the 188th. In addition, we may begin a significant conversion. In 2013 some will deploy into harm’s way. Let’s make sure they know how much we appreciate their service and do everything in our power to take care of them and their families.

 

NOTE: Concerning deployments, there is one bit of misinformation that I’d like to dispel: There are no plans for the aviation package to deploy again in 2013. In fact, we are currently not in the Air Expeditionary Forces rotation at all.

 

I know all of you are anxious to learn exactly what the future holds for the 188th. I wish I could tell you for certain; however the scope, details and timeline of these actions are yet to be finalized. Below is an update of what we know as of as of Dec. 28:

 

- With the passing of the National Defense Authorization Act (awaiting Presidential signature at this time), the Air Force is cleared to proceed with Air National Guard mission changes at their discretion. The last Air Force proposal included taking the A-10 mission from Fort Smith and replacing it with an MQ-9 Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPA) mission. Other moves are also possible involving other units in the Arkansas National Guard. These changes would have the greatest impacts on the 188th’s Operations and Maintenance Groups.

 

-The good news is there are no plans to close the 188th, contrary to what you may have read in the press today. In fact, if the Air Force plan goes forward as proposed, it appears there may not be a significant long-term change in 188th’s full-time or drill status Guardsmen manpower. If this action takes place we will push the manning details to our members as soon as it becomes available. However, it’s important to understand, such a significant mission change would not happen quickly. In fact, before the conversion would be complete, there would be substantial retraining and construction involved.

 

- If the action happens, our conversion committee will work hand-in-hand with all the stakeholders including: Our members, our officer and enlisted leaders, the union, Human Resources Office, Air National Guard, Air Education and Training Command, the Inspector General, the community and our Congressional delegation. They will communicate early and often to ensure you have the most timely and accurate information available. Bottom line: Our goal will be to take care of our members and set the unit up for future success.

 

- Recently, Gen. Mark Welsh III, the Air Force Chief of Staff, said he intends to visit the 188th soon. He also said that any mission changes would not be official until after that time. This is good news. This will be a great opportunity for him to see first-hand what the 188th has to offer both now and in the future. We will let you know when we have details on his visit.

 

I understand the continued uncertainty may be difficult, but it appears as if the final decisions will be made very soon. I have been extremely impressed with the focus, patience, teamwork and resilience of all our Airmen during this process.

 

Unless or until you hear otherwise, here’s what we should be doing in the weeks and months ahead:

 

First: Continue doing the mission we are assigned to the absolute best of our ability. Right now our job remains unchanged; this is what the taxpayer is paying us to do. We can’t afford to get distracted.

 

Second: Continue to prepare for the inspection in May. If the conversion happens we will immediately coordinate with the IG and attempt to tailor the inspection accordingly. Until that happens, we must continue with the preparation. We can’t let up. Don’t be the one whose inattention brings down the grade for the entire organization.

 

Third: Continue to take care of yourself and each other. If the uncertainty or other life issues begin to take their toll, there are many resources to help. These include: Chaplains Office; Mr. Geoff Gibson, Wing director of Psychological Health; Airman and Family Readiness; your first sergeant; and your commander. Don’t be afraid to use these resources and always be a good wingman to your coworker.

 

In closing, I am extremely proud of everything you did in 2012 and I’m very optimistic of what 2013 holds for the 188th. Never forget, we have an amazing unit. We have outstanding members that take care of each other and do the mission like no other. We have leaders that genuinely care about their people. We have facilities and training resources that are second to none. And we have the absolute best community and congressional support in the world.

 

I am honored and humbled to be your commander. Happy New Year to you and your family. May God bless you and the 188th in the upcoming year.

 

Col. Mark W. Anderson

188th Fighter Wing commander

 

Source : Facebook Account of the 188th

 

Maybe changing the Hogs against MQ9´s? :(


Edited by Humvee28
Source

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

My System-Specs @ SysProfile

 

Real Pilots need "No Mark". :D

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Why do all the Su's and Mig's look the same, even though they have different names?

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SU's are bigger than migs.

 

Lmao, I meant Mig-29 to Mig-35........Su-27 to Su-XX?

i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED

 

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