Military and Aviation News Thread (NO DISCUSSION)

[Bucic]

I threw these locations on Google, there are recent articles mentioning IS presence in the Homs province (example).

 

Ltamenah has no IS there by the looks of it indeed, and it was harder to find anything on - mostly because of variations in spelling, the most common being Lataminah. What I found suggests the forces operating there besides the Syrian Army are Jaish al-Fatah. This, in turn, has strong links to the Al Nusra front (source 1) (source 2), commonly associated with Al Qaeda in Syria (Wikipedia).

 

In other words: are they IS? Indeed no. Are they terrorists? That is up to one's definition.

 

That being said we're turning the News thread into discussion, sorry about that :)

Thanks.

I see no discussion here. Merely a clarification on specific news piece ;)

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Fair enough :) My bad there, I'm still unused to what constitutes news and what crosses into discussion in this thread, and how strict are the rules.

 

On another front, some good news from Eastern Ukraine (IB Times

& Sputnik/ex-RIA Novosti).

 

Combat has ceased on the frontline for the first time since conflict erupted in April 2014, with a 72-hour ceasefire holding good.

 

Ukrainian military spokesman Ruslan Tkachuk said the "synchronised withdrawal from the front line" began at 11am local time (8am GMT) in Luhansk region, involving T-64 and T-72 tanks, as well as anti-tank cannon and mortars.

 

The majority of tanks on the line of contact in the eastern Ukrainian self-proclaimed Lugansk People’s Republic has been withdrawn and the remainder will be pulled back on Tuesday, a spokesman from the special operations headquarters stationed in the LPR said.

[JINX_1391]

NATO confirms Russia has violated Turkish airspace for a second time.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/06/politics/russia-syria-isis/index.html?sr=tw100615russia%20syria%20airstrikes0503PMVODtop&linkId=17726796

[Pilotasso]

this is scary stuff.

[Emu]

Who'd want the job of deciding RoE?

[Yurgon]

Have you found any mention of that in the main stream press ?

 

I can find numerous articles about the fact that an Su-30 drifted into NATO (Turkish) airspace for a few seconds, but nothing on that ...

 

Nope (but wasn't actively looking, either).

 

I had the article open for a while, considering whether or not to post it because it doesn't link to any sources and might as well be made up, but ultimately decided that I'll post and link to it so that anyone can decide for themselves what they make of it.

 

Whether or not this particular piece is true, the Syria situation turns into more and more of a powder keg while whatever remains of the populace continues to suffer. Damn shame we (humans) can't find a peaceful solution to end that war. :(

 

I'd like to say some more stuff about the situation but that would most definitely be political, so I'll leave it at that.

[Rangi]

http://aviationweek.com/blog/floggers-fishbeds-and-albatrosses-lil-ol-delaware

 

Interesting article on private Migs and L-39s

[Pilotasso]

Several cruise missiles fired from the Russian navy yesterday detonated inside Iran.

 

meanwhile Assad's regular army advances its armoured columns under the protection of RuAf but the rebels are picking them up as they show up with little difficulty (using western anti tank missile systems).

 

All this is very reminiscent of the Afghan campaign in the 80's. I am baffled by this strategy.

[Emu]

Several cruise missiles fired from the Russian navy yesterday detonated inside Iran.

Source? You also mentioned that they strayed there in the other thread, they didn't, that was their intended flight path from the Caspian (not Mediterranean) Sea.

[NineLine]

Source? You also mentioned that they strayed there in the other thread, they didn't, that was their intended flight path from the Caspian (not Mediterranean) Sea.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/08/politics/russian-missiles-syria-landed-iran/index.html

 

Both Russian and Iranians havent confirmed the US report.

[Weta43]

Even the US has only released it through 'un-named sources', which for me puts it in the unproven propaganda bucket:

 

“U S secretary of State John Kerry .. repeated our concerns about the preponderance of targets that are being struck by Russian military forces that are not ISIL-related,” said spokesman John Kirby on Thursday, using an acronym for the militant group fighting within Syria.

 

There were “no tactical level decisions” made during the call, Kirby added.

 

He also said he could not confirm reports that Russian missiles had crashed in Iran.

 

 

All this is very reminiscent of the Afghan campaign in the 80's. I am baffled by this strategy.

 

Do you mean the strategy where western govenrnments back uprisings by religious fanatics against eastern aligned governments that results in massive amounts of 'blowback' from said religious fanatics that were previously considered 'useful' by the CIA, in the form of wars the west can never extricate itself from ?

 

You know the West has now been at war in Afghanistan 5 years longer than the Russians were ?

[wilky510]

 

You know the West has now been at war in Afghanistan 5 years longer than the Russians were ?

What exactly does this have to do with anything? The Russians were defeated in Afghanistan.. Just because they simply left earlier makes their strategy some how more sound in the current conflict? He brought up a very valid point.

[Emu]

More on the cruise missiles:

 

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSKCN0S20J920151008

 

The Russian Defence Ministry said it fired missiles from ships in the Caspian Sea for a second day and had hit weapons factories, arms dumps, command centers and training camps.

 

U.S. officials said they believed four Russian cruise missiles bound for Syria had crashed en route in Iran. Russia's Defence Ministry insisted the missiles had reached their targets in Syria.

 

The White House declined to comment and State Department spokesman John Kirby said he could not confirm the missiles had crashed, while adding that the report pointed towards the need for procedures to prevent clashes with U.S. planes targeting Islamic State militants in Syria.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Emu

[Emu]

What exactly does this have to do with anything? The Russians were defeated in Afghanistan.. Just because they simply left earlier makes their strategy some how more sound in the current conflict? He brought up a very valid point.

In fairness that was only after they left, just as was the case with Vietnam and the US, and in both cases the other superpower was supplying the other side. Ultimately nobody can be bothered to stay in these places for the eternity it requires. Anyway, politics LOL, or history at any rate, which is too close to politics.

[Yurgon]

More on the cruise missiles:

 

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSKCN0S20J920151008

 

Does anyone have any info (or plausible speculation) on the missiles in question?

 

Coming from the Caspian Sea, they would most definitely have to cross Iranian airspace and then either Iraqi or Turkish airspace as well. What are the cruise missile's typical cruise altitudes? Any danger for civilian air traffic?

 

If you look at flightradar24.com, airlines tend to fly around Syria and Iraq for the time being, but Iranian and Turkish airspace is mighty busy.

[ChoSeungWan]

Twitter is blowing up with dubious rumors of Turkey shooting down a Russian jet. It's being tweeted heavily but no confirmation so hopefully it's not true.

[Weta43]

What exactly does this have to do with anything? The Russians were defeated in Afghanistan.. Just because they simply left earlier makes their strategy some how more sound in the current conflict? He brought up a very valid point.

 

He may have made a valid point, but I wasn't sure about which of the various meanings (some of which I might agree with, others not) I could have taken from the statement was the one he meant.

 

 

In response to your question - when you say 'defeated' - defeated in that they pulled out without achieving their stated goal of installing and maintaining a sympathetic government & improving the lot of the average Afghani, and that after their exit the Taliban / warlords took over & what was previously considered one country splintered into a number of fiefdoms and theocracies ?

 

That is looking very much like the expected outcome of the current Afghan war (& for that matter the war in Iraq), so other than that 'we' have so far only talked about leaving those countries without achieving our goals, but haven't found a way to get out yet, while the Russians did actually exit in a relatively orderly manner ... where's the difference ?

 

There were obvious strategic lessons in the Russian & previous British occupations of Afghanistan, and in the outcome of our attempts to destabilise the Russian backed Afghani government, that we seem to have chosen to ignore.

 

On a different topic, did anyone else see the story that Germany has withdrawn its Patriot batteries from Turkey in protest at the fact the Turks keep bombing the Kurds - the most effective force fighting ISIS on the ground ?

Edited October 10, 2015 by Weta43

[Emu]

Does anyone have any info (or plausible speculation) on the missiles in question?

 

Coming from the Caspian Sea, they would most definitely have to cross Iranian airspace and then either Iraqi or Turkish airspace as well. What are the cruise missile's typical cruise altitudes? Any danger for civilian air traffic?

 

If you look at flightradar24.com, airlines tend to fly around Syria and Iraq for the time being, but Iranian and Turkish airspace is mighty busy.

Well all the missiles fall under the 'Klub' category, so altitude varies. Long range cruise missiles can be programmed to fly at any altitude you like but I suspect they were using low altitude to avoid detection by radar alerting the groups they were aiming at. Russians say all missiles hit and were tracked from the air in Syria.

[Emu]

Twitter is blowing up with dubious rumors of Turkey shooting down a Russian jet. It's being tweeted heavily but no confirmation so hopefully it's not true.

This?

 

http://warmonitor.net/news/2015/10/09/reports-turkey-shoots-down-russian-jet-in-airspace-violation/

 

Think we're going to need a little more to go on.

[Emu]

 

On a different topic, did anyone else see the story that Germany has withdrawn its Patriot batteries from Turkey in protest at the fact the Turks keep bombing the Kurds - the most effective force fighting ISIS on the ground ?

I saw this version:

 

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/US-pulling-out-Patriot-missiles-from-Turkey/articleshow/49293001.cms

 

ISTANBUL: The US on Friday started to withdraw its Patriot missile batteries from Turkey, despite Russia's weekend incursions into Ankara's airspace amid a deepening crisis in Syria.

 

The batteries, based in Turkey's southeastern province of Gaziantep, have been taken to the Turkish harbour of Iskenderun for shipping back to the United States, the Dogan news agency said.

 

The withdrawal came despite Ankara's appeal for its NATO allies to keep their Patriot missiles in the country, as Russia started air raids on Islamic State targets in Syria on September 30 and Russian fighters twice breached Turkish airspace on October 3 and 4.

 

The US Patriots were stationed in Gaziantep in 2013 with 300 US troops as a counter-defence against possible missile attacks from Syria. Germany and the Netherlands also deployed the missiles in Turkey, reports Xinhua news agency.

 

The US and Germany announced in August that they would withdraw their batteries, saying Syria no longer posed a serious threat to Turkey, a NATO ally.

[Dudikoff]

Well all the missiles fall under the 'Klub' category, so altitude varies. Long range cruise missiles can be programmed to fly at any altitude you like but I suspect they were using low altitude to avoid detection by radar alerting the groups they were aiming at. Russians say all missiles hit and were tracked from the air in Syria.

 

'Klub' seems to be the name for the export variants. The missiles in question could have only been 3M14T variants based on the available information.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M-54_Klub

[Emu]

'Klub' seems to be the name for the export variants. The missiles in question could have only been 3M14T variants based on the available information.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M-54_Klub

Okay yeah I see, that article is a bit confusing, it says the name applies only to the 3M-54 export variants but also says later in the same article (entitled Klub):

 

Variants[edit]

Domestic variants are basic versions of this missile family; these are the 3M-54 and 3M-14. The export model is called the "Club" (Klub). There are two major launch vehicles: the Klub-S, designed for use from submarines, and the Klub-N, designed for surface ships. These two launch platforms can be equipped with the following warhead and guidance combinations:[11]

 

Domestic variants[edit]

3M-54 - DOD designation SS-N-27A (NATO codename "Sizzler"). An anti-shipping variant deployed by the Russian Navy, as a submarine launched missile, Its basic length is 8.22 m (27.0 ft), with a 200 kg (440 lb) warhead. Its range is 440–660 km (270–410 mi). It is a Sea-skimmer with supersonic terminal speed and a flight altitude of 4.6 metres (15 ft) at its final stage; its speed is then Mach 2.9.

3M-54T - DOD designation SS-N-27A (NATO codename also "Sizzler"). The anti-shipping variant is deployed by the Russian Navy, in a surface ship with a VLS launched system and a thrust vectoring booster; its Basic length is 8.9 m (29 ft), its warhead weight and other performances are the same as the 3M-54.

3M-14 - DOD designation SS-N-30A. An Inertial guidance land attack variant deployed by the Russian Navy. The submarine-launched weapon has a basic length of 6.2 m (20 ft), with a 450 kg (990 lb) warhead. Its range is 1,500–2,500 km (930–1,550 mi). Its subsonic terminal speed is Mach 0.8.

3M-14T - DOD designation SS-N-30A; is the Inertial guidance land attack variant which is deployed by the Russian Navy. A surface ship with VLS launched missile, with thrust vectoring booster, its basic length is 8.9 m (29 ft), its warhead weight and other performance are the same as the 3M-14.

 

I guess they're the longer-ranged domestic variants of the Klub missile that aren't called Klub.;)

Edited October 10, 2015 by Emu

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Pentagon and Russian MoD to meet this weekend, discuss air-to-air communication over Syrian airspace to avoid accidents (source)

 

Peter Cook, Pentagon Spokesman:

In particular, the parties will discuss what language the crews will communicate in and how much air space these aircrafts will leave for one another.

[Kenan]

USAF and RUAF working together against terrorists. That would be nice. But..you know what they say..if it's sounds too good...Let's hope I'm just being unfoundly pesimistic..

[Emu]

Problem is Syria is very small, if the distances are too large that could prevent effective operations.